Lucky... 0 #51 November 22, 2009 Quote Oh, OK then. 2000 pages of red tape & bureaucracy is a GOOD thing for "we the people" that have to fund this? Everything the government gets it's hands into is better for it? You're right, drop the military, close teh schools, stop fixing the roads and close the airports and schools; we will have your version of nirvana. Or perhaps we can privatize them, they seem to work real well that way. Quote Most disturbing to me, the authors of this legislation are EXEMPTED from mandatory participation, "we the people" are not. If you believe that these politicians have your best interests at heart, if you believe the fox can & will guard the hen house, I don't know what to say that won't come across as an insult. Sorry. What? No one is bound to it. It's called an option for that reason. If you are rich, keep paying for your own if you wish. If you have employer-paid coverage and youylike it; keep it. YOUR EXEMPTION STSTEMENT MAKES NO SENSE, THERE IS NO COMPULSORY PARTICIPATION FOR ANYONE. Quit listening to Limbaugh so much Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #52 November 22, 2009 While the Constitution does not use the word privacy, there are many Amendments of it that, when the document is viewed as a whole, have been ruled by the SCOTUS to provide a certain amount of right to privacy. This line of legal interpretation was kicked-off at the SCOTUS level by Griswold v. Connecticut , a 1965 decision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #53 November 22, 2009 Quote Quote Basic health care SHOULD BE a universal right, not a commodiity to be sold for profit. Fixed it for ya. In the US it's a luxury. Well thanks But I like it better the other way. It's not a matter of semantics. The thing about basic human rights is that THEY EXIST regardless. They are "inalienable". This SHOULD BE self evident. In the U.S. basic health care is a luxury because the government is abridging this right to basic health care by allowing predators (mainly the useless insurance companies) to put themselves in the middle and extort huge sums of money from everyone. In this system, only the rich can afford to live. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #54 November 22, 2009 QuoteWhile the Constitution does not use the word privacy, there are many Amendments of it that, when the document is viewed as a whole, have been ruled by the SCOTUS to provide a certain amount of right to privacy. This line of legal interpretation was kicked-off at the SCOTUS level by Griswold v. Connecticut , a 1965 decision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut Sure, that's my point: Case law, AKA the living Constitution. My cite, Katz v Ohio: People have privacy not places alos brings in privacy. My point was the original rag didn't have that and was therefore incomplete. Furthrmore, we were in slavery at the time as well as womenhad no rights. Hell, coidified antimiscegenation was still almost 100 years away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #55 November 22, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Basic health care SHOULD BE a universal right, not a commodiity to be sold for profit. Fixed it for ya. In the US it's a luxury. Well thanks But I like it better the other way. It's not a matter of semantics. The thing about basic human rights is that THEY EXIST regardless. They are "inalienable". This SHOULD BE self evident. In the U.S. basic health care is a luxury because the government is abridging this right to basic health care by allowing predators (mainly the useless insurance companies) to put themselves in the middle and extort huge sums of money from everyone. In this system, only the rich can afford to live. Couldn't agree more; under teh guise of freedom and liberty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #56 November 22, 2009 Quote They are such idiots What does that make the losers, then? If the GOP hadn't been so totally INEPT over the previous 8 years maybe they would have won 41 seats last year.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #57 November 22, 2009 Quote Quote They are such idiots What does that make the losers, then? Bigger idiots at the Washington Home for Idiots?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavidB 0 #58 November 22, 2009 Quote Quote Oh, OK then. 2000 pages of red tape & bureaucracy is a GOOD thing for "we the people" that have to fund this? Everything the government gets it's hands into is better for it? You're right, drop the military, close teh schools, stop fixing the roads and close the airports and schools; we will have your version of nirvana. Or perhaps we can privatize them, they seem to work real well that way. Quote Most disturbing to me, the authors of this legislation are EXEMPTED from mandatory participation, "we the people" are not. If you believe that these politicians have your best interests at heart, if you believe the fox can & will guard the hen house, I don't know what to say that won't come across as an insult. Sorry. What? No one is bound to it. It's called an option for that reason. If you are rich, keep paying for your own if you wish. If you have employer-paid coverage and youylike it; keep it. YOUR EXEMPTION STSTEMENT MAKES NO SENSE, THERE IS NO COMPULSORY PARTICIPATION FOR ANYONE. Quit listening to Limbaugh so much Who? What? Nice set of ASSUMPTIONS. Carry on.When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #59 November 22, 2009 Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #60 November 22, 2009 Quote Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us. True...but I doubt anyone anywhere understands all of this 2,074 page clusterfuck.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #61 November 23, 2009 QuoteQuote Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us. True...but I doubt anyone anywhere understands all of this 2,074 page clusterfuck. I don't agree. The House bill was nearly as long and the "death panels" and other bogus scares were easy to debunk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #62 November 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Oh, OK then. 2000 pages of red tape & bureaucracy is a GOOD thing for "we the people" that have to fund this? Everything the government gets it's hands into is better for it? You're right, drop the military, close teh schools, stop fixing the roads and close the airports and schools; we will have your version of nirvana. Or perhaps we can privatize them, they seem to work real well that way. Quote Most disturbing to me, the authors of this legislation are EXEMPTED from mandatory participation, "we the people" are not. If you believe that these politicians have your best interests at heart, if you believe the fox can & will guard the hen house, I don't know what to say that won't come across as an insult. Sorry. What? No one is bound to it. It's called an option for that reason. If you are rich, keep paying for your own if you wish. If you have employer-paid coverage and youylike it; keep it. YOUR EXEMPTION STSTEMENT MAKES NO SENSE, THERE IS NO COMPULSORY PARTICIPATION FOR ANYONE. Quit listening to Limbaugh so much Who? What? Nice set of ASSUMPTIONS. Carry on. That's the best you can do? All that material I posted and just a shrug and go? Come on, where is ANYONE compelled to join the HC plan if passed? So your assetion that the Dem congress folks weren't willing to opt in is meaningless. I doubt any millionaires would opt in, I know I wouldn't if I was one. So you have a bunch of millionaires catering to other millionaires on one side, and a bunch of millionaires trying to help the poor and MC on the other; which are the trash? That's rhetorical; hope u can figure it out. My GF is a 29-year county employee. She has Crones and she can't retire due to pre-existing prohibition by your favorite fascist insurers. So is she the lazy types that you think want a free ride? I doubt you have held the same job for 29 years. She has every right to retire but can't thanks to the party with the Swastikas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #63 November 23, 2009 Quote Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us. The irony is that I'm being made fun of for not knowing the Onion by people who believe Obama is a Muslim terrorist and that death squads are all a part of the HC Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #64 November 23, 2009 QuoteQuote Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us. True...but I doubt anyone anywhere understands all of this 2,074 page clusterfuck. Davidb does, he says that there is exclusive language exempting congress from participating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #65 November 23, 2009 Quote In this system, only the rich can afford to live Sweet so all Americans are rich then? Last I checked were all still alive.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #66 November 23, 2009 Quote Quote They are such idiots What does that make the losers, then? If the GOP hadn't been so totally INEPT over the previous 8 years maybe they would have won 41 seats last year. I didnt know the GOP were the only one's in charge for the last 8 years.... Learn something new every day..... Last i checked the the medical system has been messed up for a lot longer than 8 years.... what happened to the dems?....maybe you can teach me something elseNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #67 November 23, 2009 QuoteQuote Wouldn't it be great if comments were restricted to what is actually in the bill, instead of what right or left wing pundits tell us is in the bill in an attempt to scare us. The irony is that I'm being made fun of for not knowing the Onion by people who believe Obama is a Muslim terrorist and that death squads are all a part of the HC Bill. It's not only ironic. It is sickening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #68 November 23, 2009 Quote Quote Quote They are such idiots What does that make the losers, then? If the GOP hadn't been so totally INEPT over the previous 8 years maybe they would have won 41 seats last year. I didnt know the GOP were the only one's in charge for the last 8 years.... Learn something new every day..... Last i checked the the medical system has been messed up for a lot longer than 8 years.... what happened to the dems?....maybe you can teach me something else Still having a reading problem, Mr. Deere?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #69 November 23, 2009 QuoteThe irony is that I'm being made fun of for not knowing the Onion by people who believe Obama is a Muslim terrorist and that death squads are all a part of the HC Bill. Well falling for a joke and not being able to tell real information from false information is something BOTH people you describe have problems with. What makes yours a simple mistake and theirs something worse?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #70 November 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe irony is that I'm being made fun of for not knowing the Onion by people who believe Obama is a Muslim terrorist and that death squads are all a part of the HC Bill. Well falling for a joke and not being able to tell real information from false information is something BOTH people you describe have problems with. What makes yours a simple mistake and theirs something worse? The joke's on you, I stated it was satire, I thought it was a neo-con site satirizing that scene as a joke, but seriously meaning it. Were you not able to read what I wrote. Remember, I listen to Limbaugh and Hannity, so the shit I hear there, anything is possible when you get a few whack-job, homophobe neo-cons together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavidB 0 #71 November 23, 2009 Your argument is based on a flawed assumption (or 3). I can't argue against your dogma using logic, so why bother?When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #72 November 23, 2009 Quote Your argument is based on a flawed assumption (or 3). I can't argue against your dogma using logic, so why bother? That's a cop out. Here's what I wrote: What? No one is bound to it. It's called an option for that reason. If you are rich, keep paying for your own if you wish. If you have employer-paid coverage and youylike it; keep it. YOUR EXEMPTION STSTEMENT MAKES NO SENSE, THERE IS NO COMPULSORY PARTICIPATION FOR ANYONE. Quit listening to Limbaugh so much Your response, if you were able, would be to establish there is a compulsory obligation for anyone to participate in the HC plan. Since there isn't a compulsory req, you are relegated to the standby, "flawed logic" escape. Have a nice day....and if you find that compulsory participation statute, let us know. NOTE: The context of compulsory participation, as you wrote it, would be that congress people would be required to join the public option and lose their private insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #73 November 23, 2009 QuoteThe joke's on you, I stated it was satire No, you stated you thought it was a RW site.... Lame attempt at a back peddle for you. QuoteWere you not able to read what I wrote. I was perfectly able to read what you wrote... You clearly thought The Onion was a RW site pushing RW agenda. QuoteRemember, I listen to Limbaugh and Hannity Well, that explains a lot actually. You assume that anyone that disagrees with you is like the people you disagree with. BTW still waiting on your reply to post #114 in this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3728265;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Why do I think you are just avoiding real discussions like normal?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #74 November 23, 2009 QuoteThe irony is that I'm being made fun of for not knowing the Onion No, you were being made fun of because you posted something from the Onion and refereed to it as "real and legit but hidden behind satire". You didn't try to researched the Onion at all to know that it is a satirical website(not real and legit) and not a "RW rag", as you refereed to it. But you have no problem demonizing others because they post something and don't do their research. It's amazing that you are still trying to defend yourself. Here comes the spin. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3728265;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Here are a couple of your statement from that thread. QuoteBeing the Onion I can't tell for sure. Is it satire meant to be total sarcatism, but with a flair of real intent? I'm sure the Onion would say it's pure sarcasm, but they really mean it. QuoteI think it is real and legit, but hidden behind the guise of satire. I mean after all, it is teh Onion, the rag of the RW homophobic purveyors of the proposed homophoc 28th Amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #75 November 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Basic health care is a universal right, not a commodiity to be sold for profit. Says who? The US Constitution? Mother Nature? You're daft. It's a self-evident truth. It's covered in the ninth amendment. It's also covered in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the US has agreed to. I think it says you have the right to health care, doesn't say anything about someone else paying for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
