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billvon 2,998
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>What rights do women have in a Muslim Country?
I take it you watch TV instead of reading, then. Read up on women's rights in Iran; the result may surprise you, and perhaps even conflict with what FOX News reports.
Of course, per your statements, you don't really care anyway.
I take it you watch TV instead of reading, then. Read up on women's rights in Iran; the result may surprise you, and perhaps even conflict with what FOX News reports.
Of course, per your statements, you don't really care anyway.
Quote>What rights do women have in a Muslim Country?
I take it you watch TV instead of reading, then. Read up on women's rights in Iran; the result may surprise you, and perhaps even conflict with what FOX News reports.
Of course, per your statements, you don't really care anyway.
I watch CNN London here in Switzerland.
How does everyone feel about Iran as a country, that they want to build all of these nuclear enrichment facilities? Hell they offended most of the world. Should we go in there "Guns Blazing" and make them see our point of view? Same thing is happening here.
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champu 1
I think a lot of people are talking past each other in this thread.
Islam is not synonymous with modern Sharia nor militant fundamentalism.
Minarets are associated with the former, not specifically with the latter.
Human rights violations are associated with the latter, not necessarily the former.
Therefore...
It's entirely possible to simultaneously abhor human rights violations, and not support a ban on minarets. They are not coupled closely enough for such a combination of opinions to present an insurmountable struggle within one's identity. Those who favor this ban should understand that of its critics.
However...
There ARE symbols out there that are very tightly coupled with human rights violations and/or advocacy thereof that continue to enjoy protection as forms of free speech only, imho, because of the general irrelevance that groups displaying them have brought upon themselves through the exclusion they practice. If, however, such groups rose out of irrelevance then fewer people, again imho, would argue these symbols were deserving of such protection.
In other words, if the Westboro Baptist Church wants to make signs/symbols professing that "God Hates Fags" and "Thank God For IEDs" and carry them in protest at funerals of soldiers then people generally say, "I don't agree but I support their right to free speech." They say this and then think to themselves, "...they're too crazy for anyone to actually listen to anyway..." Which is something that I think people hang their free-speech hat on, that nut jobs will always be seen as exactly that.
Islam is not synonymous with modern Sharia nor militant fundamentalism.
Minarets are associated with the former, not specifically with the latter.
Human rights violations are associated with the latter, not necessarily the former.
Therefore...
It's entirely possible to simultaneously abhor human rights violations, and not support a ban on minarets. They are not coupled closely enough for such a combination of opinions to present an insurmountable struggle within one's identity. Those who favor this ban should understand that of its critics.
However...
There ARE symbols out there that are very tightly coupled with human rights violations and/or advocacy thereof that continue to enjoy protection as forms of free speech only, imho, because of the general irrelevance that groups displaying them have brought upon themselves through the exclusion they practice. If, however, such groups rose out of irrelevance then fewer people, again imho, would argue these symbols were deserving of such protection.
In other words, if the Westboro Baptist Church wants to make signs/symbols professing that "God Hates Fags" and "Thank God For IEDs" and carry them in protest at funerals of soldiers then people generally say, "I don't agree but I support their right to free speech." They say this and then think to themselves, "...they're too crazy for anyone to actually listen to anyway..." Which is something that I think people hang their free-speech hat on, that nut jobs will always be seen as exactly that.
Andy9o8 2
You speak logically, sensibly, and to the point. You have no place here. Go away.
nerdgirl 0
Excellent post overall, imo!
Curious - how do you (or anyone else) differentiate the relatively harmless 'nut jobs' from the not-so-harmless ones?
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
QuoteWhich is something that I think people hang their free-speech hat on, that nut jobs will always be seen as exactly that.
Curious - how do you (or anyone else) differentiate the relatively harmless 'nut jobs' from the not-so-harmless ones?
/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
headoverheels 333
Quote
There are so many changes and amendments to "The Constitution" it has become a joke!!!!! And the sad thing about it all is NON of "the People" voted those changes. The government did,,,,,
It is obvious that you are a born citizen. Anyone who had to take the test would be more familiar with the way the U.S. constitutional amendment process works.
champu 1
Quote
QuoteWhich is something that I think people hang their free-speech hat on, that nut jobs will always be seen as exactly that.
Curious - how do you (or anyone else) differentiate the relatively harmless 'nut jobs' from the not-so-harmless ones?
/Marg
I rewrote the last two paragraphs of that post a few times before submitting it, so it's safe to say I'm still working out details and implications of what I wrote myself.
I don't really have an answer to your question, but I think one lies at the boundary of words and actions. Or in the case of proselytism, advocacy of ideas vs. advocacy of actions. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire actually blurred the line between words and actions, making for an even more complicated problem. Also to be considered, is advocacy of ideas combined with tacit approval of actions tantamount to advocacy of actions? And how does one determine tacit approval?
jakee 1,500
QuoteQuoteI guess it's stooopid BASE to jump Antennas as well, is it?
Antennas have ladders. Minarets - I think that's just free-climbing. Dunno, I never really looked closely at one.
I would be incredibly surprised if they're not hollow
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,500
QuoteThis thread is about Switzerland putting a freeze on building any new buildings, NOT RELIGION!!!! The whole Muslim shit just coincidental!!!!!
No, it's not. It's the entire reason for the initiative.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,500
QuoteI realise it is on a local scale but does that make our (UK) planning laws "restrictive" on muslims. Surely you would agree that having a "dominant" structure built in a cotswold village full of listed buildings would be detrimental to the value of the houses?
Sure. And I have absolutely no problem with the Swiss or anyone else refusing planning permission for minarets at the local level if they're going to be detrimental to the look of a town or village. It's important to keep that picture postcard look in many of those places.
But this isn't about that, this is putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim.
QuoteIf the Swiss are proud of their architecture and would like to keep to a certain look and feel they are entitled to it.
It's not about that. It's about putting a blanket ban on them because they're muslim.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
QuoteQuoteThis thread is about Switzerland putting a freeze on building any new buildings, NOT RELIGION!!!! The whole Muslim shit just coincidental!!!!!
No, it's not. It's the entire reason for the initiative.
again, you seem to have deep and fundamental understandings of what switzerland moves!? how come? i know for sure ncjumpjunkie has been here like five or six times this year already; how many times have you been here in that time!?
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
LOL. Don't mention clowns they REALLY scare me.
I'm Irish so my religion is bigger than your religion - not.
All this religious shit scares me - seen that, done that, moved on.
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