virgin-burner 1 #301 December 3, 2009 well, i dont need bells too!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #302 December 3, 2009 Quote Quote and here i was thinking, Arbeit macht frei.. I was, too, but I didn't want to overdo it... always there to help! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #303 December 3, 2009 I thought about it too... but wanted to avoid getting a Godwin card scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #304 December 3, 2009 godwin is a really busy man these days if you keep up reading the comments on articles about the poll.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #305 December 3, 2009 yes.......... here is why http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #306 December 3, 2009 Quoteyes.......... here is why http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #307 December 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteyes.......... here is why http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU Im not religious at all, but I hope like hell I'm dead and gone it this ever comes true!!!!! Looks like the women in here better get used to wearing a burqa and getting the shit kicked out of them by there husbands. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHSONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #308 December 3, 2009 QuoteI've read your posts in the past that were rather anti-religion (that I often found myself agreeing with, mind you). I still am anti religion. They're all bullshit, including (very much so) Islam. However the issue isn't about whether I like it or not, it's about whether the state should be able to legislate against any particular religion in this way, and I don't think it should. QuoteYour first reply to me in this thread was an attack on the democratic process as the "tyranny of the majority," On the unchecked democratic process, yes. Without any limits on pure democracy it becomes very easy for a majority to take away the rights of a minority. Pure, unlimited democracy is incompatible with a fair and free society. To me, the extra freedom is more important than the extra democratic power. Quotenow you're ranting on about how the banning of a structure restricts Muslim immigrants' freedom, I have not once mentioned immigrants. How carefully have you been reading? QuoteSo though I don't know what you're replying to, it is obvious what you're ignoring. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. A) What am I ignoring? B) No, I'm arguing because I have a particular viewpoint that I have clearly and consistently articulated, and which no-one has yet demonstrated to be false. If you think you can show me that I'm wrong, please do so, just don't tell me that I'm not talking coherently and consistently about this issue, or that I'm not directly addressing the arguments that are made against me, because that is simply not true.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #309 December 4, 2009 now the christian peoples party, a parte of the middle, probably the one with "no face" is jumping on the bandwagon; propose to ban future muslim and jewish cemetaries, forbid headscarfs, not allow other religious holidays.. now, if there's a populistic asshole, that would be said president of said party!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #310 December 5, 2009 Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #311 December 5, 2009 Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? I have a better idea. How about, given that the UK prides itself on being a democratic republic in which human rights and respect are paramount, if every Brit citizen who feels that way just fucks off to a country in which none of that is the case? The UK fought WWII for a reason; and that kind of attitude disrespects the sacrifice of every Brit serviceman who ever fought in that war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #312 December 5, 2009 >Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban >building minarets. The US is a non-muslim country, but it would be unconstitutional to ban one religion's buildings here. (Perhaps you meant non-constitutional non-muslim country.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #313 December 6, 2009 Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 568 #314 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Quote yes.......... here is why http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU Im not religious at all, but I hope like hell I'm dead and gone it this ever comes true!!!!! Looks like the women in here better get used to wearing a burqa and getting the shit kicked out of them by there husbands. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAH that video was hilarious. Talk about scare mongering. I like how they include the "helpful" quote that 40% of Russia's military will be islamic - they don't do that for anyone else. Also the US is the only country to exceed the "magical" 2.11 figure without islamic migrants. Since the video claims that muslims are fucking themselves into world domination, they should organise swinging partiies in churches to help get the birthrate up and increase church attendanceExperienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #315 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #316 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. Nice dodge. As we've already discussed up-thread, the Swiss law is not a noise restriction; even a "silent" minaret would still be banned. The law is all about the visual symbolism of a single religion - as made clear by its actual original proponents. It's a tap-into bigotry, plain and simple. To try, now, to tell us otherwise is to insult our intelligence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #317 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. It's not supposed to be an analogy, I'm testing to what extent Vortex applies his logic. (And minarets in Switzerland do not make noise.)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #318 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. It's not supposed to be an analogy, I'm testing to what extent Vortex applies his logic. (And minarets in Switzerland do not make noise.) not YET! unlike in (germany's) (fight) not too long ago.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #319 December 6, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Yes, as a non-muslim country, Switzerland has every right to ban building minarets. If the muslims have a problem with that, why don't they just fuck off to a muslim country if it's that big a deal to them? As a non-Jewish country would Germany have the right to ban synagogues? That's a weak analogy, considering that Switzerland hasn't banned mosques. Not to mention that there's no structure on a synagogue that makes noise. Nice dodge. As we've already discussed up-thread, the Swiss law is not a noise restriction; even a "silent" minaret would still be banned. The law is all about the visual symbolism of a single religion - as made clear by its actual original proponents. It's a tap-into bigotry, plain and simple. To try, now, to tell us otherwise is to insult our intelligence. The ad for the measure put out by the party is undoubtedly a tap into bigotry. The reasons why each person voted for the measure is not necessarily motivated by bigotry; they could be motivated by objective, non-bigoted observations of what happened in other European countries in recent years (where minarets *do* make noise) -- and not wanting a repeat in their own country. Refer to VB's last post, above. So I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way? Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #320 December 6, 2009 QuoteSo I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way? 'Democracy' and 'freedom' are not the same thing. An unchecked democracy can and will vote to restrict the freedoms of minorities within the state. What do you think is more free, a state where a simple majority can vote to do absolutely anything to any group of people, or a state that has limits on what a simple majority can decide?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #321 December 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way? 'Democracy' and 'freedom' are not the same thing. An unchecked democracy can and will vote to restrict the freedoms of minorities within the state. What do you think is more free, a state where a simple majority can vote to do absolutely anything to any group of people, or a state that has limits on what a simple majority can decide? Is it a democracy when a minority has moved in and has grabbed your balls so that you can no longer demand that your country maintain its own customs and heritage because you are too fucking afraid of them to do anything about it??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #322 December 6, 2009 Quote .... What do you think is more free, a state where a simple majority can vote to do absolutely anything to any group of people, or a state that has limits on what a simple majority can decide? You've seen the result. Switzerland always decided for themselves since centuries. They are free, simple as that. Deal with. Again: Hats off. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #323 December 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteSo I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way? 'Democracy' and 'freedom' are not the same thing. An unchecked democracy can and will vote to restrict the freedoms of minorities within the state. What do you think is more free, a state where a simple majority can vote to do absolutely anything to any group of people, or a state that has limits on what a simple majority can decide? Way to load up the question with hyperbole. It's not like Switzerland is requiring Muslims to register with the local police (or even banning Muslims from wearing headscarves for that matter). Call it a dodge if you like, but I won't attempt to provide a reasonable answer to an unreasonable question. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #324 December 6, 2009 QuoteCall it a dodge if you like, but I won't attempt to provide a reasonable answer to an unreasonable question. I was treating this "So I'll ask you again: is a democracy only free when a populace votes the "correct" way?" as a general philosophical question unrelated to any particular incident and I answered in general terms. I've said before that I'm more interested in the undrelying principles here than the actual case itself. I don't really care at all about minarets, I just like looking at the way people justify the decision.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #325 December 6, 2009 >Is it a democracy when a minority has moved in and has grabbed your >balls so that you can no longer demand that your country maintain its >own customs and heritage because you are too fucking afraid of them to >do anything about it? Yes. See the Thirteenth Amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
