good news for christians!

[mnealtx 0]

Catholic Church != Holy Bible.

Nice strawman, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Catholic Church != Holy Bible.

So are you saying that Catholic interpretation of the Bible is invalid?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Catholic Church != Holy Bible.

So are you saying that Catholic interpretation of the Bible is invalid?

Nope - I'm saying that RonD is talking about the bible, and you are falsely attributing his claims to the Catholic church and, in this post, trying to use my words as support to your claim.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Nope - I'm saying that RonD is talking about the bible, and you are falsely attributing his claims to the Catholic church and, in this post, trying to use my words as support to your claim.

So you're saying then that because RonD interprets the bible differently from Catholic Church, then Catholic Church interpretation should be invalid, and not RonD's? They contradict each other, so obviously both cannot be valid.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[RonD1120 62]

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Do you really know your own religion?

I'm not Roman Catholic; I am Protestant Christian.

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So how else the person would learn God's will if not by reading the God word or by going to the church? Do you really think one would learn it by watching fox news?

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So how would one know if he is going to be saved if you're saying that reading the bible and going to church is not necessary

The miracle of salvation is an undeniable revelatory experience. You know when you have entered the Kingdom of God and your name has been placed in the book of life. After that, yes, read the Holy Bible to determine God's will. After salvation you will have the desire to read His Word.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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Its my contention that those who desire to oppress their faith on others are not operating in the spirit of peace at all, but, those who desire to share are. If the conscience of the one who hears another share their faith (or non faith) is clean, then there should be no disruption of peace within.

Powerfully well stated.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 2]

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The miracle of salvation is an undeniable revelatory experience.

Depends. To those who choose to believe in it, it can be an undeniable revelatory experience. To those who do not believe in it, its religious nature is deniable.

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Its my contention that those who desire to oppress their faith on others are not operating in the spirit of peace at all, but, those who desire to share are. If the conscience of the one who hears another share their faith (or non faith) is clean, then there should be no disruption of peace within.

Powerfully well stated.

I suppose. But it begs a couple questions:
In which category do we label:
- the guy who rings your doorbell uninvited at dinnertime to share his message of faith; and
- the guy at dinner who gets pissed at Mr. Riger-dinger?

Again, it's a matter of perspective: one's man's bearer-of-witness is another man's pain in the ass.

[RonD1120 62]

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The miracle of salvation is an undeniable revelatory experience.

Depends. To those who choose to believe in it, it can be an undeniable revelatory experience. To those who do not believe in it, its religious nature is deniable.

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Its my contention that those who desire to oppress their faith on others are not operating in the spirit of peace at all, but, those who desire to share are. If the conscience of the one who hears another share their faith (or non faith) is clean, then there should be no disruption of peace within.

Powerfully well stated.

I suppose. But it begs a couple questions:
In which category do we label:
- the guy who rings your doorbell uninvited at dinnertime to share his message of faith; and
- the guy at dinner who gets pissed at Mr. Riger-dinger?

Again, it's a matter of perspective: one's man's bearer-of-witness is another man's pain in the ass.

The miracle of salvation requires faith and belief. Without acceptance of both factors there is nothing to deny.

Correction, the gift of salvation is a much better term.

If the person at my front door is a Christian I will receive a "witness in the spirit," as we say. At that point, if I'm available I will invite them in for a visit. If I am occupied with other business, such as eating, I will thank them for stopping by and refuse entry. Since we recognize each other by our faith, there will be no hard feelings with either party and the interaction will end.

If the intruder is a Jehovah's Witness they will be denied continued interface and politely asked to leave. I use some key phrases from my lessons in spiritual warfare based on Scripture. They will comply. The dark spirits know Who Jesus is and they are subject to His Ordinance.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Ron 10]

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I wear cotton-polyester blends - and I claim to be Christian, too. Odd, ain't it.

For more than one reason, yes.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jclalor 12]

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Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Why do christians pick out the few verses about gays in the OT but ignore all the other verses about stoning adulterers and selling their daughters into slavery and such?

[RonD1120 62]

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Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Why do christians pick out the few verses about gays in the OT but ignore all the other verses about stoning adulterers and selling their daughters into slavery and such?

I follow the NT because it is the Scriptures of God's grace in these end times. See Romans 1 for this topic.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I wear cotton-polyester blends - and I claim to be Christian, too. Odd, ain't it.

For more than one reason, yes.

How many reasons can there possibly be to wear cotton-polyester blends?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Love the sinner; hate the sin.

Why do christians pick out the few verses about gays in the OT but ignore all the other verses about stoning adulterers and selling their daughters into slavery and such?

I follow the NT because it is the Scriptures of God's grace in these end times. See Romans 1 for this topic.

How much time does Jesus spend gay-bashing in the Gospels?

If condemning gays is SOOOO important, why didn't Jesus say more on the subject? Or ANYTHING on the subject, for that matter?

Speed Racer
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[pirana 0]

A couple of you sound like the people that occasionally knock on our door on Saturday mornings.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[rynodigsmusic 0]

"Why do christians pick out the few verses about gays in the OT but ignore all the other verses about stoning adulterers and selling their daughters into slavery and such? "

If your not a spiritual believer in Christ im afraid it may be too hard for you to understand the answer to such a question. The short answer is that not all Christians are Christians.

Those Christians seem to be operating in the spirit of judgment rather than in the spirit of grace. In this case, it is not the "abstainer" who is judging you, but rather the world that the "abstainer" is being led out of.

Sadly, many Christians have forgotten that they are only saved by grace, not by their ability or even desire to remain "sin free" Sin is the condemnation of the world and those who choose to live by it. Those who have been freed through faith are still sinners (though many of them do not believe this) but are saved by the POWER of grace alone even and almost especially in their weakness. If a heart is truly freed from condemnation, the judgements against the world wouldnt apply to that heart, but, that doesnt mean that he/she is innocent either.

To me, those who spend their thoughts trying to figure out what is sin and what is not are also not operating in the spirit of peace, because peace goes way beyond our own thoughts and understanding (Isaiah). Instead, they seem to be operating in the spirit of judgement and should be careful in the way they do judge... Its okay to guide or teach, but never okay to forget you yourself are always being guided and taught as well.

Jesus spends very little time outlining the sins themselves, but makes it clear that all those who do sin are slaves to sin. Like it or not, Christ reveals that all are guilty of sin, but that truth alone, if accepted, opens the door to the true power of grace. When one truly understands and recieves the grace of the living God, the desire for God far outweighs the desire for sin. That is, what we truly want is clean thoughts with a clear conscience, something that is not found in the future, or in the past, but right now and only through faith. For the believer, Jesus cleans the conscience, but it seems to be quite a struggle to escape the thoughts and accusations that the world uses against itself. Hypocrites are not of the spirit but are of the world, and they accuse with the most power, because a hypocrite is a liar against the truth. If there is any bitterness at all in you in regards to Jesus, then you should know that bitterness inspires rebellion, and there is no peace in rebellion.

An unclean thought is anything that disturbs the inner peace... usually they are accusations that inspire some sort of rebellion (when no rebellion is necessary), so while the accusations are hard to escape because we are all living with sin, the condemnation is easily defeated by the spirit. But again, this knowledge is not for everyone, only for those who have been baptized by the spirit of grace that a sincere faith in Jesus offers.

I can only speak from my faith and I believe the condemnation of sin is the fate of the world (spiritual death), those who believe are still in the world, but not of the world. If this is not true, then why do I sense as if you feel you are judged and condemned simply because others choose to believe in Jesus? Im afraid many people underestimate the power and purpose of the conscience... it can bring a man peace or unrest, but it is very powerful nonetheless. Hope this helps in your quest for the answer to that question.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

"Again, it's a matter of perspective: one's man's bearer-of-witness is another man's pain in the ass."

Is this not the fundamental basis of tolerance? I think spiritual people also have to be tolerant... Let me give you an example. A recovering alcoholic has to deal with a barrage of advertisements, shows, music, just about everything that promotes alcohol. Why should he be criticized for his "ability" to tolerate the influence and remain alcohol free? Rather, both sides should seek to attain an equal level of tolerance.

I dont know why it is so difficult for people to tolerate the occasional Christian witness and not so difficult to tolerate the pizza guy who knocks on the wrong door from time to time. Or any number of "inconveniences" in our everyday life for that matter.

You cant get rid of the human ability for faith, but you can learn to adapt to those enviornments thereof... and that goes for all faiths... even those who have none at all. I believe in time we will all know the truth that brings peace to all mankind. Let me just add... this truth will be a radical and revolutionary way of thinking which means the change must come from within the minds of all peoples.

"We didn't start the fire"

[georgerussia 0]

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I'm not Roman Catholic; I am Protestant Christian.

Well, in this case you are wrong by saying "all else is permitted by the Holy Bible". You should have said "our interpretation of the Bible, which is not shared by majority of Christians around the world, says that all else is permitted by the Holy Bible". Then you're not really different from me, who says that only by sending me at least $100 check you gonna be saved from Hell, because of Matt 19:24.

Personally I always find it funny that there is a bunch of people who call themselves Christians, say that their beliefs are based on the Bible, but do not agree even with basic things regarding interpretation.

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The miracle of salvation is an undeniable revelatory experience. You know when you have entered the Kingdom of God and your name has been placed in the book of life.

How'd you know? There is obviously no search engine on this book, and you may be just misled - after all, humans are not perfect, and making mistakes.

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After that, yes, read the Holy Bible to determine God's will. After salvation you will have the desire to read His Word.

Again, there is a lot of people calling themselves Christians, from Catholics to LDS to Jehovah Witnesses. All of them believe their way of learning Jesus is the only right way - pretty much same as you do, and most of them claim that if you adopted another Christian religion, you will not be saved. And all of them read holy bible - so apparently "god's will" means different things for different people!

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[RonD1120 62]

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How much time does Jesus spend gay-bashing in the Gospels?

If condemning gays is SOOOO important, why didn't Jesus say more on the subject? Or ANYTHING on the subject, for that matter?

It is not gay-bashing. The Ten Commandments and Romans 1 state that fornication and adultery are sinful, a lusting after the flesh. Same sex relations are an abomination. Sin is sin and can be forgiven. Being queer is no different than any other sin, just repent.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[maadmax 0]

Again, there is a lot of people calling themselves Christians, from Catholics to LDS to Jehovah Witnesses. All of them believe their way of learning Jesus is the only right way - pretty much same as you do, and most of them claim that if you adopted another Christian religion, you will not be saved. And all of them read holy bible - so apparently "god's will" means different things for different people!

[georgerussia 0]

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What anybody calls themselves or claims is unimportant to anyone except themselves. When someone uses the Word of God like a club to beat others with, where does the blame fall? On the club or the person wielding it?

You mean, like Christian gay bashing, right?

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Anybody spewing hate and oppression do not reflect the God that I know.

Excellent! Hopefully those who spew hate toward gays and abortion doctors would learn from your message :)

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Excellent! Hopefully those who spew hate toward gays and abortion doctors would learn from your message :)

Too bad the same can't be said for those that spew hate toward Christians.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Too bad the same can't be said for those that spew hate toward Christians.

Only toward those Christians who are trying to force everyone else to follow their views. Surprisingly there is a lot of them.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Too bad the same can't be said for those that spew hate toward Christians.

Only toward those Christians who are trying to force everyone else to follow their views. Surprisingly there is a lot of them.

Given that the barrier seems to be as low as saying "I'm a Christian", I'm not surprised you feel that way.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dmkellett 0]

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How much time does Jesus spend gay-bashing in the Gospels?

If condemning gays is SOOOO important, why didn't Jesus say more on the subject? Or ANYTHING on the subject, for that matter?

It is not gay-bashing. The Ten Commandments and Romans 1 state that fornication and adultery are sinful, a lusting after the flesh. Same sex relations are an abomination. Sin is sin and can be forgiven. Being queer is no different than any other sin, just repent.

flesh tastes nice. fornication is fun. SIN is a human construct. same sex relationships are NOT an abomination, RELIGION IS!

[rhys 0]

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Sin is sin and can be forgiven

So the catholic priests that decided to sodomise children for up to 4 decades each is forgivable?

as long as they say sorry it is O.K.

why, if he is so close to god, did the pope not know what was going on and put a stop to the sinning?

Why did it go on for so long (and continue to go on), if god is so divine that he know everything?

Your beliefs are faulty to a point of being criminal.

It as about time christians became rswponsable for allowing such activity to continue.

If the pope or any church head is what they say theuy are, then they themselves are just as responsable as those that actually committed the crimes.

Time for the litigation aganst god, he is a law breaking cunt!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix