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First that is a redirection of your statement. You said it and its wrong.
What I said which is wrong? Please quote me please, and explain why.
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Second, there are those in the faith that commit their lives to study and people look to for insight. That being said, church to me is not a place I go to learn it is a place I go to serve. Also to live in community with others. I enjoy it just like I enjoy the community of skydivers on rainy day but we still hang out at the DZ. Just because I cannot jump doesn't mean I won't be at the DZ.
So for you church is just a Jesus fan club to hang out there. Then do you agree that nobody needs church or ministries to be a good Christian and to be saved?
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We all get it... you think Christians are dumb and are all wrong.
Well, THIS is a typical example of faith. You made a thing up (that I think all Christians are dumb and wrong) and now believe in it so much that you keep repeating it despite the fact I just said that no, I do not think all of them are dumb. Some indeed are (like GWB), but not all. Nor they're all wrong - just misled, pretty much as my kids who believe that Santa is real, and can "prove" it by showing the gifts they found under the pine tree in the morning of Jan 1st.
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That's fine... you can have your opinion but its just that.... your opinion. Just as I cannot stand Christians who try to ram their faith down others throats I also canont stand those who have a different belief or opinion going around telling people they are wrong and lack intelligence.
Sorry but neither should be done.
The problem is there are too many Christians who are trying to ram their faith down others throats - and they do it through local governments, by posting Christian scenes on public property, by doing "prayer meetings" in city halls involving government officials, and so on. Obviously their "efforts" should be countered.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
Faith: belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
There is no more concrete proof against the existence of god than there is for god. So......you have a belief that is not based on proof, you have a hypothesis. Faith. 
BTW, the above definition came from dictionary.com, so take with a grain of salt.
What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
What's a mimiboboka?
What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
QuoteI thought it was the Romans who crucified Christ
It was, but the jews handed him over to them because they thought he was evil.
QuoteAlthough it was Jesus's outrage and destructive behavior at the Temple that was the act that resulted in his capture.
If you read the Gospels (not implying that you havent), he handed himself over to fulfill the will of God. Historically the view is quite accurate, but usually lacks in the spiritual side... the one that gives "life to the fullest." which, I may add goes well beyond just good morals and values and Jesus just being a swell guy.
You seem to accept others and their faiths without seeing them as a threat to you, and don't threaten us "heathens" or even (as others have done) gloat about others you dislike being hurt or dieing.***QuoteBTW, I've been meaning to tell you that you are one of a very few Christians who actually practice the teachings of Christ on here.***
It is a constant struggle to believe this, for me at least. I can only hope that I am always in Christ, as he says, because I am FAR from perfect in the eyes of sin. There is much about the truth that is not revealed to everyone, such as the power of just one touch of grace.
Jesus accepts everyone, but not everyone accepts Jesus. There are many who believe themselves to be sinners, and many who do not. Jesus "did not come for the righteous, but for the sinner". "There is none who is righteous, no not one". I am many of you, I am a sinner, I am condemned, I do feel dark and hardened at times, but, I am all these things with grace. I am dark with a touch of light, and I like to believe that I am at least trying to know Jesus, but in this world, with so many lies, it is not easy without the spirit that Jesus gives. But your comment means alot to me, so thank you.
"We didn't start the fire"
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Faith: belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
Collins gives a slightly better definition: "strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence"
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There is no more concrete proof against the existence of god than there is for god.
This is not true, as such logic would assume I can come with any possible thought, and until it is proven to be false, it should be considered at the same trust level as any other theories. For example, there are "theories" that you can cure cancer by drinking urine, or that you can get rid of HIV by raping a virgin. None of those "theories" were proven false by scientific methods, i.e. via a proper double-blind study. Should we then consider them to be "possibly true" as well?
If you think about it more, you'll admit that it is simply impossible to prove non-existence of something which does not exist. How would you prove that an invisible Bubba does not live in your bedroom, and is not having anal sex with you each time you're sleeping? You cannot prove that it is false, so it might be true, right? Then you'll immediately have a bunch of invisible creatures living in your room and doing weird things to you so large that you'd probably spend all the time thinking about them.
Fortunately this is not the case, and no idea is even considered until there is at least some rationale behind it - preferably based on facts, or on proven theories.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteWhat's a mimiboboka?
Mimiboboka is the thing which created you, me and the whole world. Nobody ever seen him, but I have a paper which he inspired. It says "send a $100 check to George, and you will be rich in Heaven. Don't send it, and you will be sucking GWB cock in Hell for eternity". So if you consider it honesty, you'll see it yourself that there is the same amount of evidence regarding existence of Mimiboboka as regarding the existence of your Lord, so you should at least consider them both. I'd even say Mimiboboka should be considered the first, because he talked to me directly, not just to some ancient people you never heard of.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
Ron 10
QuoteMy point is that the response in bold above is an emotional response based upon a decision you have made at some point in your life to have faith in the existence of no God, not based in any logic disproving the existence of God.
And all the Christians have is the same emotional belief. All people want is some proof that God does in fact exist... The best Christians bring as proof is pointing at the Bible and claiming you have to have faith.
You don't find it at ALL funny that God used to talk to his children all the time but has since stopped?
The major difference is that Non-Christians don't normally try to convert Christians into not believing, they don't insult them, they don't normally try to legislate *at* them.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteBlasphemer. Damnation awaits you. God's word is clear on this subject
So be it. The Word of God, the one you quote from, also says that "the flesh counts for nothing", that the flesh gives birth to flesh, and the spirit gives birth to the spirit, and that there shall be a new heaven and a new earth, and that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. If you are strong, congratulations, but what do you need Jesus for?
I hope your conscience is clear as well because the way you judge others, you will be judged, and the measure you use will be used against you. This very topic, (might as well add everything else that the jews were so zealous in following at that time as well) has kept people from experiencing the love of Christ for some time, and those who seem so justified and empowered to condemn the weakness in others should be careful, spiritually, of living the condemnation they inspire in others. I am always concerned of being bred for destruction, the accuser is very powerful, but, Jesus is Lord in my life, weakness and all. God is the judge and savior of all mankind, forgive me if I dont tremble from your words, I have the truth now.
Also, notice, that you judge me, and others with the law that was given to Moses, therefore, you stand in judgment against that same law. Did God not say, let us reason together? Reason tells me that whether you think being gay is immoral or not, it is still present in our world, and your voice is very similar to the ones that Jesus saved the adulteress from. Why did Jesus come if not for the needy? What good is it for a man to be changed for the love of god if he does not poesess the love of God in his heart?
Jesus spoke of this alot, being clean on the outside is not the same as being clean on the inside. If you think that a person must quit being gay before he can find Christ, then you have missed the entire revelation of many of Jesus' parables, and for that I am sorry. But, I must be bold with you, even at the risk of being wrong, and say, that your voice sounds like that of a hypocrite, and all things will be revealed in time. Let me be clear, I am not calling you a hypocrite, I am saying I hear the sound and you should be careful and pray about this.
I am sorry I wrote so much, but you fired me up as I was typing, and it frustrates me that even after Christ came to give us the truth, we still hear this voice amongst us. You should pray to forgive me if I am in error, and pray for revelation in regards to this ridiculous stumbling stone. Like it or not, there are gay believers out there, are you going to stand before God and say you deserve his grace over them? Again, forgive me if anything I have said is unjust, but know that I am speaking from the heart as well, and i have to look out for falseness the same as you. peace
Edited to add: The Word of God that inspired the zeal of the jews in that time is the same word that appeared to them. But, they couldnt recoginze it and rejected it. They believed something completely different than what the Word actually revealed.
"We didn't start the fire"
Bolas 5
My biggest issues with religion is the notion that we all are "sinners" and therefore need their guidance to make us "good" people. I believe we have control over what we do/don't do, just some can't accept that level of accountability for their actions/inactions and look for another reason.
You believe, you have faith, you have discovered that is what it takes for you to be a better person.
Others may use your religion or any of the various others to achieve this goal.
Others may use counseling, drugs, etc. to make themselves a good person.
Some might use the occult.
Some can do it on their own.
Some just don't bother.
The point is the goal of all except the last is generally the same: try to be a better person.
The biggest issue with religion is the different ones get too concerned with the process versus the results.
You believe, you have faith, you have discovered that is what it takes for you to be a better person.
Others may use your religion or any of the various others to achieve this goal.
Others may use counseling, drugs, etc. to make themselves a good person.
Some might use the occult.
Some can do it on their own.
Some just don't bother.
The point is the goal of all except the last is generally the same: try to be a better person.
The biggest issue with religion is the different ones get too concerned with the process versus the results.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
QuoteNeither have you. I bet you never even seen your God!
Im afraid we cant debate a mirace with human understanding, you and I both would be speaking a different language altogether. But I believe there are many who have seen what I have. The power is undeniable and goes way beyond simple or even complex emotion. What followed is that i know Jesus is the truth. Im afraid, no amount of human knowledge can reveal this power, but it is availiable through a sincere repentance and fear of God. This is really all I can tell you. Any argument or debate, at least for me, would be fruitless.
I am called self righteous and narsacistic for experiencing this miraculous revelation and sharing it, but again, it is completely undeniable for me. I want to be everyones freind, but I still believe, and that alone makes it difficult in these times, where hatred for Jesus is growing. Jesus is the spirit of freindship, but he is not always accepted becuase he not always understood, and he is not understood until he is accepted. This is by design of the spirit and there is no other way for those who seek the truth in Christ.
Now, is this a language you understand? For some it is life, for others just words. peace
"We didn't start the fire"
I understand. The goal is to find faith that brings us closer to God. Faith is the goal. To find a beautiful connection with the creator and all his creations, but our own thoughts accuse us and those accusations keep us from enjoying even just one moment with God "in spirit and in truth" I know your issues are sincere but unfortuately I dont have all the answers. But God is revealing more and more of himself as our minds, imaginations, and hearts evolve, and he may just answer your questions if you ask him.
Keep in mind, God is the spirit of wisdom, all our "facts" are only proofs of what truth had already existed. Something isnt true because we prove it (as many believe) something is proved because it is already true. God is like that. The revelation of God has been here from the beginning, but it is only proven through faith. The wisdom of Christ brought us that truth.
A life with God is our God-given right, its man that tries to steal that right, as is the design. It is much deeper than what can be presented in these forums, but the short version is that light is not found without darkness.
As far as other religions are concerned... "a tree is recognized by its fruit." and... "there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed" and ... "There is only one who is good" Hope that helps.
Keep in mind, God is the spirit of wisdom, all our "facts" are only proofs of what truth had already existed. Something isnt true because we prove it (as many believe) something is proved because it is already true. God is like that. The revelation of God has been here from the beginning, but it is only proven through faith. The wisdom of Christ brought us that truth.
A life with God is our God-given right, its man that tries to steal that right, as is the design. It is much deeper than what can be presented in these forums, but the short version is that light is not found without darkness.
As far as other religions are concerned... "a tree is recognized by its fruit." and... "there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed" and ... "There is only one who is good" Hope that helps.
"We didn't start the fire"
jclalor 12
From one of my other post:
Jesus was a tyrant on many levels, but probably the worst of all of Jesus's ideas is the teaching of hell. He did not invent the concept of eternal punishment, but the promotion of the christian hell originated with Jesus. In the old testament, hell was just death or the grave. With Jesus, hell became a place of everlasting torment. In Mark9:43 Jesus said that "hell is th fire that never shall be quenched" In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus gives us a graphic ( and almost gleeful) description of the place he created:"The son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth". Hitler's gas ovens were horrendous andthe suffering unspeakable, but they did not burn forever. The murderd victims of the holocaust suffer no more, but the victims of Gods anger will scream forever and ever.
I don't beleive in Jesus or God, so I qualify as one of those "things that offend" in the above verse. Anyone who thinks it is moral for someone like me, a person who has used kindness and reason to come to conclusions- to be eternally punished for my views hasn't the faintest concept of morality. Any religion or system of thought that contains such a threat of physcial violence is morally bankrupt. For this reason alone Jesus deserves to be denounced as a tyrant.
And who could think he was wise? The teaching of Jesus includ these pearls of wisdom;
don't make any plans for the future (Matthew 6:34)
don't save any money (Matthew 6:19-20)
don't become wealthy (Mark 10:21,25 )
sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Luke 12:33)
don't work to obtain food such as meat, because it dosn't last forever ( John 6:27)
don't have sexual urges (Matthew 5;28)
marrying a divoriced woman is committing adultery ( Matthew 5:32)
act in such a way that people will want to persecute you (Mtthew 5:11)
let everyone know you are special and better than the rest (Matthew 5:13-14)
hate your family (Luke 14:26)
take money from those who have no savings and give it to the rich investors (Luke 19:23-26)
if someone steals from you, don't try and get it back(Luke 6:30)
if someone hits you, invite them to do it again (Matthew 5:39)
if you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment ( Matthew 5:40)
if someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles (Matthew 5:41)
if anyone ask you for anything, give it to them without question (Matthew 5:420)
if you do something wrong with your hand, cut it off, and if you do something wrong with your eye, pluck it out ( Matthew 5:29-30 said in a sexual context)
Jesus was a tyrant on many levels, but probably the worst of all of Jesus's ideas is the teaching of hell. He did not invent the concept of eternal punishment, but the promotion of the christian hell originated with Jesus. In the old testament, hell was just death or the grave. With Jesus, hell became a place of everlasting torment. In Mark9:43 Jesus said that "hell is th fire that never shall be quenched" In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus gives us a graphic ( and almost gleeful) description of the place he created:"The son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth". Hitler's gas ovens were horrendous andthe suffering unspeakable, but they did not burn forever. The murderd victims of the holocaust suffer no more, but the victims of Gods anger will scream forever and ever.
I don't beleive in Jesus or God, so I qualify as one of those "things that offend" in the above verse. Anyone who thinks it is moral for someone like me, a person who has used kindness and reason to come to conclusions- to be eternally punished for my views hasn't the faintest concept of morality. Any religion or system of thought that contains such a threat of physcial violence is morally bankrupt. For this reason alone Jesus deserves to be denounced as a tyrant.
And who could think he was wise? The teaching of Jesus includ these pearls of wisdom;
don't make any plans for the future (Matthew 6:34)
don't save any money (Matthew 6:19-20)
don't become wealthy (Mark 10:21,25 )
sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Luke 12:33)
don't work to obtain food such as meat, because it dosn't last forever ( John 6:27)
don't have sexual urges (Matthew 5;28)
marrying a divoriced woman is committing adultery ( Matthew 5:32)
act in such a way that people will want to persecute you (Mtthew 5:11)
let everyone know you are special and better than the rest (Matthew 5:13-14)
hate your family (Luke 14:26)
take money from those who have no savings and give it to the rich investors (Luke 19:23-26)
if someone steals from you, don't try and get it back(Luke 6:30)
if someone hits you, invite them to do it again (Matthew 5:39)
if you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment ( Matthew 5:40)
if someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles (Matthew 5:41)
if anyone ask you for anything, give it to them without question (Matthew 5:420)
if you do something wrong with your hand, cut it off, and if you do something wrong with your eye, pluck it out ( Matthew 5:29-30 said in a sexual context)
Bolas 5
Actually you don't understand what I was saying.
You are choosing to follow God/Jesus on your path to peace/happiness. I'm saying that is not the only way to peace/happiness, just the way that you feel is right for you.
In the end (at least on the mortal plane) it's all about the destination, not the path. As long as people try to find peace/happiness by trying to be good to themselves and others along the way, does it really matter what path they take? If a person finds their inner strength to be a better person in talking to an old shoe, at the end of the day, in this plane of existence, does it really matter?
The afterlife is an entirely different discussion as one can't scientifically prove the existence of it any more than it can prove the existence or religious dieties.
QuoteAs far as other religions are concerned... "a tree is recognized by its fruit." and... "there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed" and ... "There is only one who is good" Hope that helps.
This shows the inherent intolerance of religion, albeit smugly.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
RonD1120 62
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I am called self righteous and narsacistic for experiencing this miraculous revelation and sharing it, but again, it is completely undeniable for me. I want to be everyones freind, but I still believe, and that alone makes it difficult in these times, where hatred for Jesus is growing. Jesus is the spirit of freindship, but he is not always accepted becuase he not always understood, and he is not understood until he is accepted. This is by design of the spirit and there is no other way for those who seek the truth in Christ.
In support to rynodigsmusic:
I experienced three undeniable encounters with our Lord. The first was in Mar 81 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and invited Him into my heart to take control of my life. The second occurrence was Apr 83 when I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and was immersed in His glory. The third experience followed a short time later when I heard the audible voice of God which completely reorganized my intellectual paradigms and set me free. That constitutes evidence that can be given in testimony.
I am still a sinner i.e., not a good person, living in a sinful world. However, I have hope and faith that keeps me from being bogged down in anger, anxiety, depression and guilt. Why? Because I can repent and pray for forgiveness and get back on track knowing I am forgiven.
My purpose in posting in SC is to offer hope to those who feel hopeless. I don't want anyone to come to Jesus Christ believing that He needs to be crucified anew. I want to offer the crucifixion of Jesus Christ to those who know they are lost and on the brink of the abyss of eternal hopelessness.
For the naysayers reading this post:
You don't believe in God (check). You don't think Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind (check). You don't want to pray when you are angry, scared, depressed or convicted (check). You want jump up and fight the right for Christians to post the good news (check). My justification, albeit the justification in the atoning death of Christ, is that the number of readers of these posts far out number the responders to these posts. Therefore, those who do need a positive message are receiving it.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Ron 10
QuoteThe third experience followed a short time later when I heard the audible voice of God which completely reorganized my intellectual paradigms and set me free.
Great for you.... But why doesn't he talk to the rest of us? I mean, I have an office phone, cell phone, email that goes with me.... Heck being almighty he could just pop down to my office and say hi, or send me a text.
Point is that you guys all claim that God talks to you.... Cool! And the Bible states that God communicated with people.... Wow!
So why has he stopped communicating with the people he claims to love? With today's rampant sinning, why hasn't God said something that we could understand?
I know, you are going to claim that you have to believe.... Well God used to not be so subtle.... Why is he shy now?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
RonD1120 62
QuoteQuoteThe third experience followed a short time later when I heard the audible voice of God which completely reorganized my intellectual paradigms and set me free.
Great for you.... But why doesn't he talk to the rest of us?
You have to open the channel by humbling yourself and inviting Him in. In is with the heart not the mind.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Guess what... we all are put to death. Such is the consequence for sin in the Christian faith. Sin is sin. Lust is lust..... according to the Bible.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
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