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maadmax 0
Jesus was a tyrant on many levels, but probably the worst of all of Jesus's ideas is the teaching of hell.
And who could think he was wise? The teaching of Jesus includ these pearls of wisdom;
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As we have found unraveling the physical laws of nature, Truth can be stranger than fiction. The same appears to holds true for the laws of spirituality. What would be worse, telling people about Hell or waiting until they found themselves there and then explaining it to them? I am kind of thankful that Jesus gave us a heads up. Who knows how bad a place like Hell will actually be. One thing is for sure it is separation from God, and that will probably feel like an unquenchable burning of lost opportunity.
And as far as the "Pearls of Wisdom"; it they don't make any sense to you , don't worry about them. Passages that appeared to be nonsensical at one point in my life, held profound Wisdom when reexamined after the accumulation of additional life experiences and wisdom. The Bible continually amazes me in that way. Keep searching you will find the Truth.
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Niki1 1
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And that's what makes Christianity so hard to believe. The Bible can be interpreted so many different ways that there is no way to know what the correct interpretation is.
That is probably true if you are an academic. But if your are a miserable sinner and hopelessly lost like me. You know what you need to find, and you damn well know it when you find it, irreguardless of how you interpret it.
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I don't have a problem with God. There must have been some Original Force that started this ball rolling 15 billion years ago.
My problem is with the people who say that they are the only ones who KNOW how God wants us to live. Fundamentalist Muslims, Fundamentalist Christians, Fundamentalist Jews, they all supposedly pray to the same God but each says they alone are on Gods side and you must do as they do. I wouldn't be supprised if there were Fundamentalist Wicans or Fundamentalist Sun God worshipers out there. How would a Fundamentalist Budaist act?
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
RonD1120 62
QuoteHow would a Fundamentalist Budaist act?
They would seek the fundamental middle path.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
beowulf 1
QuoteThe same appears to holds true for the laws of spirituality.
LOL I am sorry I just can't read that sentance with out laughing. Now you have imaginary laws to go along with an imaginary all powerful being! And you expect to be taken seriously???!!!!
Niki1 1
Guess what... we all are put to death. Such is the consequence for sin in the Christian faith. Sin is sin. Lust is lust..... according to the Bible.
Death is the price we pay for being born. No body gets out of here alive.
Well, Isaiah and, I think, Methusula did if you believe that compendium of conflicting and inaccurate stories written thousands of years ago by people that were highly racist, sexist, and overall superstitious.
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
kallend 2,106
QuoteQuoteThe third experience followed a short time later when I heard the audible voice of God which completely reorganized my intellectual paradigms and set me free.
Great for you.... But why doesn't he talk to the rest of us? I mean, I have an office phone, cell phone, email that goes with me.... Heck being almighty he could just pop down to my office and say hi, or send me a text.
What's wrong with the old fashioned way, in a burning bush? An email or text message could be faked too easily.
If some supernatural entity spoke to me out of a burning bush, I'd be inclined to believe in their existence (right after I consulted a psychiatrist to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating).
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Niki1 1
QuoteMy biggest issues with religion is the notion that we all are "sinners" and therefore need their guidance to make us "good" people. I believe we have control over what we do/don't do, just some can't accept that level of accountability for their actions/inactions and look for another reason.
You believe, you have faith, you have discovered that is what it takes for you to be a better person.
Others may use your religion or any of the various others to achieve this goal.
Others may use counseling, drugs, etc. to make themselves a good person.
Some might use the occult.
Some can do it on their own.
Some just don't bother.
The point is the goal of all except the last is generally the same: try to be a better person.
The biggest issue with religion is the different ones get too concerned with the process versus the results.
Dare I say it? Amen!
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
Louis D Brandeis
Where are we going and why are we in this basket?
maadmax 0
LOL I am sorry I just can't read that sentance with out laughing. Now you have imaginary laws to go along with an imaginary all powerful being! And you expect to be taken seriously???!!!!
Well I guess we will share a laugh together. If you think our consciousness is just a systematic firing of neurological tissues causing the exchange of psychoactive compounds, then that is equally as funny. I would have loved to hear your opinion 1000 years ago of why skin felt warm when the sun shined on it, since electromagnetism was yet to be discovered. How ever you want to define it we are physical and spiritual beings. The universe has to be full of the energy of self-awareness, otherwise we wouldn't be here having this conversation. Convince me otherwise. Show me a chemical reaction that can produce just 0.01gram of love or compassion and I will sign onto your bah-humbug manifesto.
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maadmax 0
My problem is with the people who say that they are the only ones who KNOW how God wants us to live.
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You will get no argument on that. For me to experience the transforming power of God , I first must understand and then have the freedom to believe or reject what I have heard. Someone telling me what I have to do, doesn't work.
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I experienced three undeniable encounters with our Lord. The first was in Mar 81 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and invited Him into my heart to take control of my life. The second occurrence was Apr 83 when I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and was immersed in His glory. The third experience followed a short time later when I heard the audible voice of God which completely reorganized my intellectual paradigms and set me free. That constitutes evidence that can be given in testimony.
The obvious problem here is that you cannot testify regarding encounters with your Lord - it may be Satan, Zeus or just a hallucination. When I went through a surgery and had general anesthesia, I've seen a lot of glitches myself when it was wearing off. Being a reasonable person, however, I do not trace it to Aliens, Gods or whatever else.
Your testimony would be no different from those who tell us that yesterday aliens kidnapped them and had sex with them the whole night, or those who tell us that they cured cancer by drinking their urine. Those people typically believe that what they said really happened to them. Unfortunately it's only their beliefs, not facts, and any testimony regarding it would be easily disproved in cross-examination.
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My purpose in posting in SC is to offer hope to those who feel hopeless.
I wonder if there is anyone here who feel hopeless, AND looks to find the solution in Jesus, AND is visiting SC instead of local church to find it? To me it looks like you're trying to operate way away from your target audience - you might get a better chance in your state office where people apply for unemployment benefits.
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You don't believe in God (check). You don't think Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind (check). You don't want to pray when you are angry, scared, depressed or convicted (check).
This is correct.
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You want jump up and fight the right for Christians to post the good news (check).
This is wrong - as long as:
- Christians have the same right as everyone else, including people who are not Christians, and those who are not religious;
- They restrict themselves in ways they spread "good news" - no, I do not want to see them every day coming to my house or sending me spam with their "good news", sorry.
- They do not do it using public property or money;
- Their "good news" do not call for action which would affect those who are not Christians (and here is where we typically have a major problem).
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My justification, albeit the justification in the atoning death of Christ, is that the number of readers of these posts far out number the responders to these posts. Therefore, those who do need a positive message are receiving it.
Why would you need justification?
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteYou take checks? Well heck, why stop at a hundred!
No problem. For a $1,000 check you can get a blowjob from Maria (or Jesus, whoever you prefer) in Heaven. Larger contributions may also be discussed :)
Please make check payable to "American Atheists" :)
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
QuoteIf a person finds their inner strength to be a better person in talking to an old shoe, at the end of the day, in this plane of existence, does it really matter?
No. A person can only be what he was created to be. Just like any flower of a field, its destiny was in the seed. Before I became born again I too was searching to be just such a great guy, non-judgemental, no worries, loving everyone and living life to the fullest. But I found darkness somewhere along that path, i cant speak for others. I did feel as if I had a sincere love for those who were just as weak as me. Before I came to a knowledge of the truth, the only thing I had found through all my searching, was that I knew nothing except that I wanted to be good... and I was already starting to let go. I was more than releived to say the least to hear this in message of Jesus. A soul has to be prepared and the soil has to be ready before the seed can be planted. You also, are closer to Jesus than you know. If you really want to learn how to let go, then just let go and ask God to give you Jesus, repent of your sin, but do this with all your heart, like you believe it is at least possible for God to be real and eternally loving and understanding... You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. But this requires humbleness, something that is very hard for some. For me, the quest for being a good guy wasnt enough to keep me from going deeper and deeper into my own mortality... I needed hope and I didnt even know it.
Human beings, by nature are designed to think and use our minds. Even native americans who didnt have the knowledge of Jesus, found a belief in the creator, so those deeper thoughts were not only present because of the bible, they are ingrained into our being for a reason, just as negative thoughts, destructive thoughts, ect... You cant escape it, our minds have held the knowledge of life and death even before Jesus came. The ones who seek the truth, seek life to the fullest, unless they long for death, in which case they would seek the truth in the spirit of death.
Christ taught us that there are two lives of a man. The life of the flesh, which is condemned to die, and the life of the spirit. We all know the outcome of the flesh do we not? But, there is a life in the spirit that also has a death and a life as well. Some choose to follow the life in the spirit and believe in faith, hope, and love, and some choose to follow the death in the spirit, in which this world is all there is, and there is nothing given beyond what we see or get. In which money, posessions, power, legacy, success, happiness, and acceptance is all there is, then you die. Or, you die sometime before that and somehow you have to be okay with knowing you never truly got what you wanted ect.. ect... Now, the one who chooses to see this life is all there is, will recieve the rewards of this life in that perception, but, the spiritual side of the mind will die with the body (according to Christ) unless there is life in the spiritual side, in which case, all things given are gifts of God, and nothing is ours and never was. This type of thinking takes us out of the spiritual death that the world tries to influence, and into what matters most to us, what we desire most of all. Those desires are lessons and rewards in Humility, in humbleness, in love, in letting go, in understanding that wisdom does not belong to you, in honoring one another because you love them, not becasue they "deserve" it, in a deep respect, (that goes beyond the ego) for all living things.. In learning how to know God… Which is what the spiritual life is all about.
Most likely you already fear hell, just keep trying to convince yourself it isn’t real. If you don’t fear hell, then you may fear the unknown. I believe the ones who know their fears, admit them, and even in some way understand them, are the ones who live by the truth. If you have no fear, then you have no fear, or, could be in a great denial. Fear is a nature of man, it is instinctive for survival and often underestimated until it drenches us with terror, that is, until it makes its power known. Spiritually, fear humbles even the hardest of men. The world generally has a great misconception of fear and that is what all these wars are ultimately about, but for the spiritually sensitive and those who continuously try to understand it, fear leads to great peace, comfort, and even joy. But there must be a revelation or enlightenment for that to be true, because by nature, fear was designed to be very powerful and influencial without understanding. I wrote all this to say that fearing hell is not a bad thing, just like fearing anything is not a bad thing, its just confronting the truth inside your mind, if in fact you have fear, consider it a blessing, if you have a fear of God, consider that the truth. But now what? Did God just design us to fear him or is there something else going on? For me, that answer is in Christ, and I was surprised almost beyond belief at what was revealed.
QuoteThe afterlife is an entirely different discussion as one can't scientifically prove the existence of it any more than it can prove the existence or religious dieties.
"What am I on the other side of life? What am I, on this side" Hope is not for the afterlife, it is for this life. Eternity begins and ends in a limiltess amount of time (there is no measure), meaning that right now, this moment, is in eternity. I believe the search for Christ is an eternal search of timeless souls. The bible says it is for a man to die once, but it doesnt say anything about a soul. The souls belong to the spirit which ignite them, beyond that, I have the freedom in Christ to explore the deepest wonders of my imagination, and I dont share everything with everyone.
QuoteThis shows the inherent intolerance of religion, albeit smugly
Why? Because I believe there is only one who is good? The point is that a "tree is recognized by its fruit"... if the tree is good, the fruit will be good as well. I believe I am showing more tolerance than you give credit for. If you cant understand Christ, at least try to find goodness. But unfortunately in this day and age, goodness is always argued against as arbitrary at best. A whole philosophy of thinkers throughout history have been debating over this very subject. Christ just summed it up for me at least, and he says that no one is good, that there is only one who is good, and he is in Heaven.
"We didn't start the fire"
Andy9o8 2
QuoteDeath is the price we pay for being born. No body gets out of here alive.
Screw that. Check, please?
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What I was correcting was the statement you made about churches not wanting people to read the Bible. That is simply not true.
This wasn't my statement either - I just agreed with the statement made by riddler. But indeed, any sane person reading the Bible would pretty much understand that it simply cannot be considered guidance in any reasonable way.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
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From one of my other post:
Jesus was a tyrant on many levels, but probably the worst of all of Jesus's ideas is the teaching of hell. He did not invent the concept of eternal punishment, but the promotion of the christian hell originated with Jesus. In the old testament, hell was just death or the grave. With Jesus, hell became a place of everlasting torment. In Mark9:43 Jesus said that "hell is th fire that never shall be quenched" In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus gives us a graphic ( and almost gleeful) description of the place he created:"The son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth". Hitler's gas ovens were horrendous andthe suffering unspeakable, but they did not burn forever. The murderd victims of the holocaust suffer no more, but the victims of Gods anger will scream forever and ever.
I don't beleive in Jesus or God, so I qualify as one of those "things that offend" in the above verse. Anyone who thinks it is moral for someone like me, a person who has used kindness and reason to come to conclusions- to be eternally punished for my views hasn't the faintest concept of morality. Any religion or system of thought that contains such a threat of physcial violence is morally bankrupt. For this reason alone Jesus deserves to be denounced as a tyrant.
And who could think he was wise? The teaching of Jesus includ these pearls of wisdom;
don't make any plans for the future (Matthew 6:34)
don't save any money (Matthew 6:19-20)
don't become wealthy (Mark 10:21,25 )
sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Luke 12:33)
don't work to obtain food such as meat, because it dosn't last forever ( John 6:27)
don't have sexual urges (Matthew 5;28)
marrying a divoriced woman is committing adultery ( Matthew 5:32)
act in such a way that people will want to persecute you (Mtthew 5:11)
let everyone know you are special and better than the rest (Matthew 5:13-14)
hate your family (Luke 14:26)
take money from those who have no savings and give it to the rich investors (Luke 19:23-26)
if someone steals from you, don't try and get it back(Luke 6:30)
if someone hits you, invite them to do it again (Matthew 5:39)
if you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment ( Matthew 5:40)
if someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles (Matthew 5:41)
if anyone ask you for anything, give it to them without question (Matthew 5:420)
if you do something wrong with your hand, cut it off, and if you do something wrong with your eye, pluck it out ( Matthew 5:29-30 said in a sexual context)
Im sorry man, you read it but you didnt see. Some of those verses gave me increible revelation and a stronger connection with God. He teaches us to let go, something many should try sometime. It would take me about 4 hours to respond to this properly... time I just dont have right now... but since it is an earlier post of yours and they are obviously sincere observations, i feel it will need to... just give me some more time, hopefully I will get to it soon.
Also, keep in mind, all those verses you chose are out of context, something I dont use much anyway, but even in context, they arent whole verses, its a little difficult to see the pic in a puzzle without all the pieces. peace
"We didn't start the fire"
beowulf 1
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LOL I am sorry I just can't read that sentance with out laughing. Now you have imaginary laws to go along with an imaginary all powerful being! And you expect to be taken seriously???!!!!
Well I guess we will share a laugh together. If you think our consciousness is just a systematic firing of neurological tissues causing the exchange of psychoactive compounds, then that is equally as funny. I would have loved to hear your opinion 1000 years ago of why skin felt warm when the sun shined on it, since electromagnetism was yet to be discovered. How ever you want to define it we are physical and spiritual beings. The universe has to be full of the energy of self-awareness, otherwise we wouldn't be here having this conversation. Convince me otherwise. Show me a chemical reaction that can produce just 0.01gram of love or compassion and I will sign onto your bah-humbug manifesto.
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You have zero evidence to support your claims and beliefs of supernatural occurences or the existence of supernatural beings(god). All you have is what you imagine to be true.
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What I was correcting was the statement you made about churches not wanting people to read the Bible. That is simply not true.
This wasn't my statement either - I just agreed with the statement made by riddler. But indeed, any sane person reading the Bible would pretty much understand that it simply cannot be considered guidance in any reasonable way.
Well I do disagree with that and I am quite sane.
Also, these kind of statements are exactly what I am talking about. I am not telling you that you are insane because you don't believe. That would be wrong just as it is wrong to tell me or other Christians that they are insane because they have faith and see the Bible as a guide full of truth.
It's a little ironic that you do not like Christians who have that emotional fire to tell people about the Lord when it seems you have that same kind of emotional fire to tell those of us who believe in God or the Bible that we are wrong or insane.
That is exactly what that statement is saying ......
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
billvon 3,063
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Where exactly is it saying that its not immoral to be gay?
Ryoding answered that better than I could, just above.
Ryoding answered that better than I could, just above.
RonD1120 62
As I keep saying over and over, the message is not for you because you do not wish to see, are incapable of seeing and, don't believe seeing is possible.
Some skydivers have/had problems in life and Jesus Christ of Nazareth is/was the answer. The message is for them.
Many readers in SC need encouragement. You never know when they receive it.
If someone came to you asking for help for their depression, sorrow from loss or fear of the unknown, what would you offer?
Some skydivers have/had problems in life and Jesus Christ of Nazareth is/was the answer. The message is for them.
Many readers in SC need encouragement. You never know when they receive it.
If someone came to you asking for help for their depression, sorrow from loss or fear of the unknown, what would you offer?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Bolas 5
QuoteIf someone came to you asking for help for their depression, sorrow from loss or fear of the unknown, what would you offer?
Personally I'd talk with them and try to help them by getting them to face up to the reality of the here and now and the future and not dwell in the past. I might say logical things they don't want to hear but need to to try and make them a stronger person.
I would not fill them with false hopes and promises.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
RonD1120 62
QuoteQuoteIf someone came to you asking for help for their depression, sorrow from loss or fear of the unknown, what would you offer?
Personally I'd talk with them and try to help them by getting them to face up to the reality of the here and now and the future and not dwell in the past. I might say logical things they don't want to hear but need to to try and make them a stronger person.
I would not fill them with false hopes and promises.
Nor would I. I would share what has worked for me because I was one who suffered.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
I agree that belief in God is very much based in the emotional, and not in logic. Where you look at nature, and the order of things, and see the result of chaos, another looks and sees divine order. It is not true that atheists do not try to "convert" or legislate. Atheists scream "No prayer in schools!" Christians scream" the founding fathers said freedom of religion, not freedom from religion!". The wheels on the bus go round and round. Do I have doubts in Christianity, sure. The benefits I see of trying to live life like Jesus did are still beneficial even if God didn't exist. Again, that is an emotional response, and based upon my interpretation of Jesus' words and life. I personally can't see anything wrong with feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, healing the sick, comforting the grieving, or unburdening the heavy laden. I know Christianity misses this boat alot in favor of moral fingerpointing, but it doesn't change the fact.
Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama
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