justinb138 0 #1 December 4, 2009 You say this plan will reduce health care costs. What if it doesn't? You say it won't result in rationing of care. What if it does? You say this won't add to the deficit. What if it does? You say this won't put the insurance companies out of business. What if it does? Whether you think it will accomplish it's goals or not, what do you think will be done to remedy the situation if it fails miserably? Will it be repealed? Will the next group of bureaucrats decide they're the ones that can "fix" it? Will it continue to stay in place even if it results in the exact opposite of it's stated goals? Will politicians continue to pour money into a failing program? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #2 December 4, 2009 QuoteYou say this plan will reduce health care costs. What if it doesn't? ----Who cares as long as it's free.----- You say it won't result in rationing of care. What if it does? -----If they delete a care(procedure or treatment) howcan it be rationed----- You say this won't add to the deficit. What if it does? -----Print more money.----- You say this won't put the insurance companies out of business. What if it does? -----Evil capitalist, who cares.----- Whether you think it will accomplish it's goals or not, what do you think will be done to remedy the situation if it fails miserably? -----Print more money------ Will it be repealed? -----Not within the scope of hope and change.---- Will the next group of bureaucrats decide they're the ones that can "fix" it? -----If they believe that it needs "fixin" print more money and create a Dept of Fixit.------- Will it continue to stay in place even if it results in the exact opposite of it's stated goals? -----It's for the children.--------- Will politicians continue to pour money into a failing program? ------Yes, because they have their own plan.----- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #3 December 4, 2009 I don't favor mandatory government health care. (Which is good, since no one is proposing that.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #4 December 4, 2009 QuoteI don't favor mandatory government health care. (Which is good, since no one is proposing that.) Wonderful. Care to answer any of the questions ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #5 December 4, 2009 QuoteI don't favor mandatory government health care. (Which is good, since no one is proposing that.) except... if you opt out of the government "option" you still have to pay for it. helluvan option...So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #6 December 4, 2009 > Care to answer any of the questions ? OK! >You say this plan will reduce health care costs. What if it doesn't? There is no such plan, and I didn't say that. >You say it won't result in rationing of care. What if it does? There is no such plan, and I didn't say that. >You say this won't add to the deficit. What if it does? There is no such plan, and I didn't say that. >You say this won't put the insurance companies out of business. >What if it does? There is no such plan, and I didn't say that. >Whether you think it will accomplish it's goals or not, what do you >think will be done to remedy the situation if it fails miserably? There is no such plan, and I didn't say that. >Will it be repealed? Hard to say since it will never exist. >Will the next group of bureaucrats decide they're the ones that can >"fix" it? Undoubtedly. >Will it continue to stay in place even if it results in the exact opposite >of it's stated goals? Since there are no stated goals, that would be a hard question to answer. >Will politicians continue to pour money into a failing program? They seem to pour money into both failing and successful program, so that's a "most likely." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #7 December 4, 2009 > if you opt out of the government "option" you still have to pay for >it. helluvan option. You're paying for it now, so it's not really an option now _or_ in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #8 December 4, 2009 By "government health care" I'm referring to the plans currently being discussed in the House/Senate. That make it a little clearer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #9 December 4, 2009 >By "government health care" I'm referring to the plans currently >being discussed in the House/Senate. OK, cool. If you changed your questions to apply to one of those plans, they'd make a lot more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #10 December 4, 2009 Oh yeah I forgot, Obama is going to waive his magic wand and make full healthcare for 30 million MORE people without spending an extra dime or raising taxes/creating new ones. edit: I'm not against healthcare reform, in fact I think we need it. I just think he is trying to eat a cake with one bite. There has to be a better way to go about this than all at once.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 December 4, 2009 Quote edit: I'm not against healthcare reform, in fact I think we need it. I just think he is trying to eat a cake with one bite. There has to be a better way to go about this than all at once. You can't really change it piecemeal - that's part of the problem with doing any reform. But it also means (in answer to the original question) that if there is a change, it's not undoable if it fails miserably. We can only move forward to the next answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #12 December 4, 2009 >Oh yeah I forgot, Obama is going to waive his magic wand and >make full healthcare for 30 million MORE people without spending an >extra dime or raising taxes/creating new ones. No, he's not. >edit: I'm not against healthcare reform, in fact I think we need it. I >just think he is trying to eat a cake with one bite. There has to be a >better way to go about this than all at once. I think this pretty much _is_ a piecemeal approach. What will change for 90% of the people out there? Nothing. They will keep their current insurance plan. The two major differences are: 1) an insurance exchange that provides an open market to any company willing to forego problematic restrictions (like disallowing pre-existing conditions) 2) a government option that covers people who cannot afford any other option Personally I am hoping that option 2) is a very cheap and barebones program that no one in their right mind would use if they can afford anything else. Then it serves its stated purpose - providing a last ditch safety net while encouraging people to pay for their own damn health care. Indeed, I'm disappointed this plan doesn't do _more._ Tort reform would be a good addition, as would removing some of the state barriers to healthcare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #13 December 4, 2009 QuoteQuoteI don't favor mandatory government health care. (Which is good, since no one is proposing that.) except... if you opt out of the government "option" you still have to pay for it. helluvan option... Seems to work for schools and colleges. Plenty of people choose private.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #14 December 4, 2009 I could 10 similar questions to ask GWB about the wars and the state of the economy, all things that happened on his watch. the thread is meaningless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #15 December 4, 2009 Quote I could 10 similar questions to ask GWB about the wars and the state of the economy, all things that happened on his watch. the thread is meaningless. Never would have expected "It's Bush's fault". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #16 December 4, 2009 I didn't say that, I said the thread is meaningless. And provided an example as to why it would be meaningless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #17 December 4, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't favor mandatory government health care. (Which is good, since no one is proposing that.) except... if you opt out of the government "option" you still have to pay for it. helluvan option... Seems to work for schools and colleges. Plenty of people choose private. ... and if you opt out of private schools, you still have to pay property taxes to make up for what they don't pay ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #18 December 4, 2009 QuoteI didn't say that, I said the thread is meaningless. And provided an example as to why it would be meaningless It's a simple question, with a simple point. If they pass the HC bills and it's a massive failure, what will be done? You could ask the same questions about tens of thousands of bills that have been passed in the past, but right now I'm curious about people's thoughts on this one. If you have nothing constructive to say, why both saying anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 December 4, 2009 Quote... and if you opt out of private schools, you still have to pay property taxes to make up for what they don't pay ;) Not. My tax goes to the local PUBLIC school district.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #20 December 4, 2009 I did have something constructive to say. I think it is a waste of time to discuss issues with questions like that. If I save someone some time by them NOT discussing it, I would consider that to be constructive - maybe not for you.....but for others perhaps. I will now be constructive and stop wasting my own time on it. Write the White House or your congressman/senators and ask them. The thread is meaningless since the answers to the questions are moot What if you had al the answers to all those questions in front of you right now - what would you do with that information? That is exactly what I mean by it being meaningless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #21 December 4, 2009 >Not. My tax goes to the local PUBLIC school district. Exactly; you pay whether your kids are in private school or not - indeed, whether you have kids or not. No matter what, you have to pay. Compare that to the house healthcare plan, where you pay only if you do not have your own health insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 December 4, 2009 Quote>Not. My tax goes to the local PUBLIC school district. Exactly; you pay whether your kids are in private school or not - indeed, whether you have kids or not. No matter what, you have to pay. Compare that to the house healthcare plan, where you pay only if you do not have your own health insurance. Or if I don't have a plan that fed.gov thinks sufficient. Whether I need it or not.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 December 4, 2009 Quote Compare that to the house healthcare plan, where you pay only if you do not have your own health insurance. That seems to ignore the substantial debt associated with it. Taxpayers pay for this regardless. And when revenues get further into the red, more will pay direct taxes for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 December 4, 2009 Various estimates between 2.5 and 6 trillion.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #25 December 4, 2009 >Or if I don't have a plan that fed.gov thinks sufficient. Correct. And 99% of current healthcare plans will be sufficient. Joe's Health Care and Bait Shop policies may not be enough though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
