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QuoteOf course not! Seems like you missed the original post where it was made clear that this 51B is pure profit - after all expenses (including everyone's salary, bonus, 401k, insurance, and CEO helicopters) are paid.
Why do you have a problem with that and what do you suggest to change it? Government caps on profits? The 51B you're talking about; that's the entire health insurance industry, right? It's not like one company is making that per year.
QuoteSo it definitely wouldn't put anyone out of work - in fact they may not see any changes at all.
Bringing their profit margin to 0 wouldn't have a negative impact on the company? I just can't believe someone would propose forcing a private company to 0 profit margin.
QuoteIf you're claiming there is a profit margin, please explain how it works.
Profit Margin
A ratio of profitability calculated as gross earnings divided by revenues (or, said another way, gross profits divided by sales). It measures how much out of every dollar of sales a company actually keeps in earnings.
Profit margin is very useful when comparing companies in similar industries. A higher profit margin indicates a more profitable company that has better control over its costs compared to the competitors in the industry. Profit margin is displayed as a percentage a 20% profit margin, for example, which means that the company has a net income of $0.20 for each dollar of sales.
QuoteAs I said in another post, I understand how a grocery store can have it (get apple for $10, sell it for $20, your profit margin is 100%, but if you only sell a single apple in a year, you do not have any profit while your profit margin is still 100%). I do not understand what you consider "profit margin" for health insurer.
They still have a product. They still have expenses.
Quote
They are not "evil", they're just follow a typical modern business model - get as much money today as possible, and don't give shit about tomorrow as at that time you'd be retired in Costa Rica.
3.4% isn't exactly taking as much as you can. That point is proven by the fact they're number 87 on the list of industries.
QuoteAnd they do not have 50% profit because they cannot.
Agreed. They could have a 5 or 10% if they wanted to.
QuoteWho doesn't now?
You used them as an example of a company that runs extremely well. They'd be out of business without government bailouts.
QuoteA lot of delivery/retail/transportation businesses would end their 2009 with negative balance. We're still in recession.
So the answer is to have the government hand out cash to every company with a negative balance??
Quote
I'd say AIG is a great example.
Agreed. They shouldn't have gotten any government bailout.
QuoteThat's good, but if you want to save money right now, the reasonable way to do so would be stopping contributing to any retirement account. You'd get immediate benefits, right?
Yep.
The HC is projected to cost $1T over the next ten years. How is that planning for the future?
QuoteMaybe I'm naive, but for me a bill which provides insurance for those who cannot afford it, and doesn't cost you anything is positive,
A magical bill that provided insurance for the uninsured at no cost would be great.
QuoteLike people, who cannot afford insurance, then go to ER and do not pay (and then ER charges more paying customers - insurance company).
They're still not going to be paying anything. The cost will still have to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear with a new bill.
Quote
Like providing a single basis for all health plans, which would make it easier to sell them in other states (this one is not clear yet though).
I'm not against selling plans over state lines. I'm not against HC reform. I am against the government getting involved in the industry.
QuoteMy point was that you do not know what the bill gonna be - and I wonder whether you read the current 2,000 pages one - but you still wanna delay it, just in case. Right?
I've read as much of it as the people voting on it. Yes, I want to delay it until it's right and people that are voting read the damn thing. And you just want it pushed through by the end of the year... just because?
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Stay positive and love your life.
Quote
Why do you have a problem with that and what do you suggest to change it? Government caps on profits? The 51B you're talking about; that's the entire health insurance industry, right? It's not like one company is making that per year.
I do not have any problems with that. I'm just saying that those "just 3.4%" you were talking about mean approximately 4B per a large insurer. This is definitely not a small profit especially if you consider what they do - they do not develop new drugs or even sponsor it, they do not build new hospitals or provide health care themselves (except Kaiser). They just take and give money, leaving some for themselves.
Quote
Bringing their profit margin to 0 wouldn't have a negative impact on the company? I just can't believe someone would propose forcing a private company to 0 profit margin.
So you're saying that all non-profits are wasting money, or less effective than their private industry counterparts? I don't understand it.
Quote
Profit Margin
A ratio of profitability calculated as gross earnings divided by revenues (or, said another way, gross profits divided by sales). It measures how much out of every dollar of sales a company actually keeps in earnings.
Profit margin is very useful when comparing companies in similar industries.
So what is the difference from just profit? Does "profit margin" and "profit" mean the same thing?
And the bold quote is good too, I'd also add "by similar size".
Quote
3.4% isn't exactly taking as much as you can. That point is proven by the fact they're number 87 on the list of industries.
Of course! If I make 20K a year, and have 5K in expenses (including taxes), this would mean I have a whopping 400% profit margin, and likely to be on the top of this list, right? Would this make the list meaningless?
Quote
You used them as an example of a company that runs extremely well. They'd be out of business without government bailouts.
You forgot that the government also imposes a lot of conditions on them, like delivering mail everywhere (including remote areas) for the same price. They might do pretty well if they followed health insurers, and doubled their charges for everything during last ten years, as well as refused sending mail to overseas APOs for 41 cent (wonder how much a letter sent by UPS to Afganistan would cost).
Quote
The HC is projected to cost $1T over the next ten years. How is that planning for the future?
Let's compare the numbers then. What are current costs?
Quote
They're still not going to be paying anything. The cost will still have to go somewhere. It doesn't just disappear with a new bill.
But it will not add up either - those costs are not something we're not paying now and will start paying with a new bill.
Quote
I'm not against selling plans over state lines. I'm not against HC reform. I am against the government getting involved in the industry.
Completely? How would we avoid scam insurance companies then?
Quote
I've read as much of it as the people voting on it. Yes, I want to delay it until it's right and people that are voting read the damn thing. And you just want it pushed through by the end of the year... just because?
So for how long should we delay it? I bet if you ask any politician they all would say they read it, so the criteria must be more specific.
But one of the reasons I want it pushed because it would piss off a lot of Republicans, and it gonna be fun!
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuote
Lifestyle choices such as exercise and diet have much more to do with life expectancy than medical care, which makes it largest impact at end-of-life.
Back to you for the next incorrect datum.
Same old "it's the culture" argument with no proof whatsoever. LAME.
I've not seen a general practitioner that didn't recommend better diet, more exercise and less stress. But, I'm SURE that you know more about medicine than an MD...since you mentioned LAME.
That IS all part of HEALTHcare. You just shot your own position down in flames.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Quote
But one of the reasons I want it pushed because it would piss off a lot of Republicans, and it gonna be fun!
I was ready to post a serious response and then I got to this. Congratulations on losing all credibility with one sentence. Quite a feat.
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Stay positive and love your life.
riddler 0
QuoteYou mean things should be given away for free.
Well, geez, first you guys shout that this is not free, then you blame me for thinking it's free. Yeah, we all know it's not free.
QuoteYou do realize that even the non-corrupt companies aren't free, right?
Having trouble imagining a non-corrupt insurance company - is there such a thing?
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
Lifestyle choices such as exercise and diet have much more to do with life expectancy than medical care, which makes it largest impact at end-of-life.
Back to you for the next incorrect datum.
Same old "it's the culture" argument with no proof whatsoever. LAME.
I've not seen a general practitioner that didn't recommend better diet, more exercise and less stress. But, I'm SURE that you know more about medicine than an MD...since you mentioned LAME.
That IS all part of HEALTHcare. You just shot your own position down in flames.
Wow, you're ABSOLUTELY right.
Can you tell me where I can get those prescriptions for better diet, more exercise and less stress?
(That was sarcasm, btw - since you obviously can't tell the difference between advice and treatment)
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Lifestyle choices such as exercise and diet have much more to do with life expectancy than medical care, which makes it largest impact at end-of-life.
Back to you for the next incorrect datum.
Same old "it's the culture" argument with no proof whatsoever. LAME.
I've not seen a general practitioner that didn't recommend better diet, more exercise and less stress. But, I'm SURE that you know more about medicine than an MD...since you mentioned LAME.
That IS all part of HEALTHcare. You just shot your own position down in flames.
Wow, you're ABSOLUTELY right.
That's correct. It's easy when debating you or rushmc.
Quote
Can you tell me where I can get those prescriptions for better diet, more exercise and less stress?
(That was sarcasm, btw - since you obviously can't tell the difference between advice and treatment)
Health != medicine.
Healthcare != medical care. RTF-thread title.
You are WRONG again. Twice in one day.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteI was ready to post a serious response and then I got to this. Congratulations on losing all credibility with one sentence. Quite a feat.
Yeah, that's a typical Republican excuse when they have nothing else to argue. But rest in peace, you're not the first.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
mnealtx 0
Still waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,027
QuoteStill waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Not my fault if you can't differentiate between HEALTH and medicine. Look it up (along with "metaphor", "straw man", "hypocrisy" and the other words whose meaning you consistently misuse).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteStill waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Not my fault if you can't differentiate between HEALTH and medicine. Look it up (along with "straw man", "hypocrite" and the other words whose meaning you consistently misuse).
So, still nothing to prove your 'point' - about what I figured.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteStill waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Not my fault if you can't differentiate between HEALTH and medicine. Look it up (along with "straw man", "hypocrite" and the other words whose meaning you consistently misuse).
So, still nothing to prove your 'point' - about what I figured.
What point do I have to prove? Your inability to use the English language correctly is there for all to see.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteStill waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Not my fault if you can't differentiate between HEALTH and medicine. Look it up (along with "straw man", "hypocrite" and the other words whose meaning you consistently misuse).
So, still nothing to prove your 'point' - about what I figured.
What point do I have to prove? Your inability to use the English language correctly is there for all to see.
I thought it was more your inability to understand the factors affecting life expectancy.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteStill waiting on you to show something that disproves what I said, besides lame arguments.
Not my fault if you can't differentiate between HEALTH and medicine. Look it up (along with "straw man", "hypocrite" and the other words whose meaning you consistently misuse).
So, still nothing to prove your 'point' - about what I figured.
What point do I have to prove? Your inability to use the English language correctly is there for all to see.
I thought it was more your inability to understand the factors affecting life expectancy.
The figures speak for themselves. YOU made an ubsubstantiated claim, and continue to misinterpret the word "health" as in "health care" as in the title of this thread.
Stop making an ass of yourself.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteThe figures speak for themselves. YOU made an ubsubstantiated claim, and continue to misinterpret the word "health" as in "health care" as in the title of this thread.
Stop making an ass of yourself.
"Lies, damn lies and statistics"
The only unsubstantiated claim in our little sub-topic is coming from YOU, perfesser. Maybe you should quit while you're way, WAY behind.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteThe figures speak for themselves. YOU made an ubsubstantiated claim, and continue to misinterpret the word "health" as in "health care" as in the title of this thread.
Stop making an ass of yourself.
"Lies, damn lies and statistics"
The only unsubstantiated claim in our little sub-topic is coming from YOU, perfesser. Maybe you should quit while you're way, WAY behind.
Re-defining words doesn't help you, some of us DO have dictionaries.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe figures speak for themselves. YOU made an ubsubstantiated claim, and continue to misinterpret the word "health" as in "health care" as in the title of this thread.
Stop making an ass of yourself.
"Lies, damn lies and statistics"
The only unsubstantiated claim in our little sub-topic is coming from YOU, perfesser. Maybe you should quit while you're way, WAY behind.
Re-defining words doesn't help you, some of us DO have dictionaries.
Less tap-dancing, more proof. Should be simple for a man of your towering
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Of course not! Seems like you missed the original post where it was made clear that this 51B is pure profit - after all expenses (including everyone's salary, bonus, 401k, insurance, and CEO helicopters) are paid. So it definitely wouldn't put anyone out of work - in fact they may not see any changes at all.
If you're claiming there is a profit margin, please explain how it works. As I said in another post, I understand how a grocery store can have it (get apple for $10, sell it for $20, your profit margin is 100%, but if you only sell a single apple in a year, you do not have any profit while your profit margin is still 100%). I do not understand what you consider "profit margin" for health insurer.
They are not "evil", they're just follow a typical modern business model - get as much money today as possible, and don't give shit about tomorrow as at that time you'd be retired in Costa Rica.
And they do not have 50% profit because they cannot. A company making thousands can easily grow 400% a year. For a company making hundreds of billions 1% a year may be very good growth when you find that 1% of 100B is 1B.
Who doesn't now? A lot of delivery/retail/transportation businesses would end their 2009 with negative balance. We're still in recession.
I'd say AIG is a great example.
That's good, but if you want to save money right now, the reasonable way to do so would be stopping contributing to any retirement account. You'd get immediate benefits, right?
I would like to see the number of consumers which would see the increase. Maybe I'm naive, but for me a bill which provides insurance for those who cannot afford it, and doesn't cost you anything is positive, so for those whose cost will stay the same it's beneficial. But as I said, most cost savings are in future.
Like people, who cannot afford insurance, then go to ER and do not pay (and then ER charges more paying customers - insurance company).
Like people who can afford insurance but decide not to. Then when they got hurt, they go to ER and do not pay.
Like providing a single basis for all health plans, which would make it easier to sell them in other states (this one is not clear yet though).
Of course I know what my insurance company pays my doctor - it is in the statement I receive from them.
My point was that you do not know what the bill gonna be - and I wonder whether you read the current 2,000 pages one - but you still wanna delay it, just in case. Right?
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