The reason for the season

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

BTW, I know plenty of humble atheists, just as I know plenty of arrogant yet devout theists. Nobody has a corner on the market of either attribute

Very good point, and I often wonder why those humble atheists cant find value in the teachings of Christ and on the flipside, how those who value the teachings of Christ find such arrogance. You may or may not agree that intent can be disguised by both the ear and the mouth.

As far as sediment and the earths crust is concerned. Jesus calls himself the Rock for a reason. As I said before, modern science has nothing compared to what the anti christ will have. There are many reasons for people to fall away from the faith, many. So I am sorry that i dont have all the answers your looking for. In any event, both in the scientific realm and the spiritual realm, faith seems to play a big role.

"We didn't start the fire"

[billvon 2,990]

>I know you have reserves as to the continuity of the bible being correctly
>transcribed throughout the ages, and either it is radically altered, or its not, but
>it doesnt change the fact that the lessons given to us in Christ are lessons in
>love.

Oh, I agree that the lessons of the Bible are not nullified by some errors that have crept in. They unfortunately dilute those lessons, because you have to be a lot more careful about what you take as gospel (pun intended.) But reading the Bible, and understanding it with all its flaws, is still immensely important - because there are some vital lessons in there that we'd all do well to heed.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Very good point, and I often wonder why those humble atheists cant find value in the teachings of Christ and on the flipside, how those who value the teachings of Christ find such arrogance. You may or may not agree that intent can be disguised by both the ear and the mouth.

The words you use are all English, but the language is something completely different.

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

There are many reasons for people to fall away from … faith [sic], many.

For example, she may be on the same plane as you, but jumping with a different group, a group that exits after yours. As her group waits to exit, in order to provide adequate horizontal separation, you and your group will fall away (from Faith).

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 2,990]

>The words you use are all English, but the language is something
>completely different. What the hell are you talking about?

To attempt a translation (RM correct me if I am wrong)

1) Even atheists can find good stuff in the Bible

2) Even religious types who profess to follow the Bible can be jerks

3) Smooth talkers can deceive you

4) Selective listeners can deceive themselves

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

>The words you use are all English, but the language is something
>completely different. What the hell are you talking about?

To attempt a translation (RM correct me if I am wrong)

1) Even atheists can find good stuff in the Bible

2) Even religious types who profess to follow the Bible can be jerks

3) Smooth talkers can deceive you

4) Selective listeners can deceive themselves

The good stuff to be found in the Bible is hardly different from the good stuff in the holy books of other religions.

Any randomly selected set of people contains jerks as well as those who live good lives.

It seems a characteristic of just a few religions that they condemn to Hell (or equivalent) good people JUST because they don't worship the correct god in the approved fashion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Im afraid it seems that would be something you would say. Given your posts about beievers at least. So many of you seem to enjoy beating up on the meek. You can call me whatever you like, but what I have spoken on here is the truth as it is reflected in the Gospel. Its not mine, its Jesus'. Im not as interested in "convincing" people as you seem to think, but you are convinced that I am and therefore you trample my testimony as foolish nonsense. I cant help that, but what have you offered any of these conversations? Where is your heart? What do you believe? None of you have done anything but strengthen and sharpen what i believe in Christ. The truth continues to get clearer and clearer in my head, and if that makes me an "elite", i would hope that it is elite enough to transcend Gods love to others.

But you are sadly mistaken... I am not the elite. I am just a very gratefu,l poor, and weak man who is/has nothing without God.

I wonder what you wouldve said to some of the greatest examples of Christianity throughout history? As someone is feeding the poor in the name of Christ, your in the crowd using the same voice you use in here. I could be wrong, but your not showing me that to be honest.

Ephesians 2 (New American Standard Bible)

Made Alive in Christ

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Be at peace and of good cheer. The Scripture above describes the difference between the lost and the saved, particularly as it pertains to skydivers.

Satan is the prince of power of the air. When you and others, such as I, attempt to share the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ we are immediately confronted by the forces of darkness.

We are only required to share the truth of the Gospel, that we have overcome, by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb.

We are not responsible for the actions or decisions of others. Maintain your light and saltiness. Greater is He that is in you, the he that is in the world.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[frequentfaller 0]

Quote

Satan is the prince of power of the air. When you and others, such as I, attempt to share the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ we are immediately confronted by the forces of darkness.

We are only required to share the truth of the Gospel, that we have overcome, by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb.

We are not responsible for the actions or decisions of others. Maintain your light and saltiness. Greater is He that is in you, the he that is in the world.

if god is all powerfull, why doesnt he just get rid of satan, and the forces of darkness?

create us, give us free will, dont tell us which rule book to follow, send everyone to hell, that wasnt born in the right place. right place, meaning brought up in the correct religion.

Born ok 1st time.

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Quote

Satan is the prince of power of the air. When you and others, such as I, attempt to share the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ we are immediately confronted by the forces of darkness.

We are only required to share the truth of the Gospel, that we have overcome, by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb.

We are not responsible for the actions or decisions of others. Maintain your light and saltiness. Greater is He that is in you, the he that is in the world.

if god is all powerfull, why doesnt he just get rid of satan, and the forces of darkness?

He has done just that. With the incarnation of Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection the forces of darkness have been defeated and their eternal fate has been determined. The victory over darkness and spiritual death is a free gift for us to accept. The choice to accept that gift is a free will decision by each one of us.

Merry Christmas, the gift is for you too.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

The words you use are all English, but the language is something completely different.

What the hell are you talking about?

What is heard is not always what is being said, and what is said is not always what is being understood. But humbleness can be found in both "attributes", so if I can understand that humbleness can be found in atheism, then why cant others understand that it can be found in God as well? Instead, the humble man of God (completely unworthy) gets ridiculed by the humble atheist. At least thats the intent I got from your previous post anyway.

"We didn't start the fire"

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

The words you use are all English, but the language is something completely different.

What the hell are you talking about?

What is heard is not always what is being said, and what is said is not always what is being understood. But humbleness can be found in both "attributes", so if I can understand that humbleness can be found in atheism, then why cant others understand that it can be found in God as well? Instead, the humble man of God (completely unworthy) gets ridiculed by the humble atheist. At least thats the intent I got from your previous post anyway.

It doesn't strike me as very humble to tell people who don't worship your god in the approved fashion that they are condemned to an eternity of torture.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

Oh, I agree that the lessons of the Bible are not nullified by some errors that have crept in. They unfortunately dilute those lessons, because you have to be a lot more careful about what you take as gospel (pun intended.) But reading the Bible, and understanding it with all its flaws, is still immensely important - because there are some vital lessons in there that we'd all do well to heed.

I Agree...

(Luke)37And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.' "

The old does not want the new because they dont recognize it is better. In Christ, there is a new covenant that should be accepted as Gospel...

7to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace."

The fruit of that knowledge would be unrecognizable to those consumed by the old wine. But you should know that the conversations we have in the forums would be a little different in person, but what is written here may be read by others, that dont understand (and Im not just talking about non-believers), so, I feel the need to elaborate more than I normally would. Plus, I think I must enjoy these forums more than I know

"We didn't start the fire"

[frequentfaller 0]

Quote

He has done just that. With the incarnation of Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection the forces of darkness have been defeated and their eternal fate has been determined. The victory over darkness and spiritual death is a free gift for us to accept. The choice to accept that gift is a free will decision by each one of us.

Merry Christmas, the gift is for you too.

then why is he still around? not that i believe in santa either...err i mean satan, but why not wipe him from existance. so he quit messin with the messages we are supposed to get.

Born ok 1st time.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

It doesn't strike me as very humble to tell people who don't worship your god in the approved fashion that they are condemned to an eternity of torture.

And for some reason this is mostly all you hear. I get some pretty uncool things said to me also, but those things are not all I "hear". Besides Im interested in discussing and sharpening as much understanding as I can, Im not as interested in arguments believe it or not. I was just making a point that a man can be humble/desire to be humble, without faith and with faith, even if that faith believes in hell. Its no worries if you disagree.

"We didn't start the fire"

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

It doesn't strike me as very humble to tell people who don't worship your god in the approved fashion that they are condemned to an eternity of torture.

And for some reason this is mostly all you hear. I get some pretty uncool things said to me also, but those things are not all I "hear". Besides Im interested in discussing and sharpening as much understanding as I can, Im not as interested in arguments believe it or not. I was just making a point that a man can be humble/desire to be humble, without faith and with faith, even if that faith believes in hell. Its no worries if you disagree.

That may be your personal attitude, but it doesn't appear to be the official position of many Christian denominations.

We had a regular poster here a while back whose sig line essentially said that you couldn't be "good" unless you are a Christian, regardless of the goodness of your actions.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

hen why is he still around? not that i believe in santa either...err i mean satan, but why not wipe him from existance. so he quit messin with the messages we are supposed to get.

Because the message is grace through faith

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

We had a regular poster here a while back whose sig line essentially said that you couldn't be "good" unless you are a Christian, regardless of the goodness of your actions.

That comes from an iterpretation in James:

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

It is a very convicting passage for a believer, if its not understood properly and discerned with grace. One of the main points of the Gospel is that grace is found through faith and not through works, but this passage seems to contradict that in a way. Unless we understand what the "doing" and the "deeds" are that James is speaking of. Clint Black sang a song a while back and it was a good song... it said, "love isnt something that we have, its something that we do." It is more difficult and takes greater faith to love in spite of hate or a "loveless" spirit than it is to do something good for someone because a misintereptation in the bible makes you believe that you have faith because of what you do.

For example. Does someone have faith because they drink from a cup with wine in it? (while I greatly respect that tradition), or do they drink from the cup because they have faith? In the same way, does a man who does good deeds automatically have faith, or does a man with faith automatically do good deeds? Faith that recieves love is a faith that will give it, even if in just the smallest of ways... Jesus says that faith grows, therefore, the ability to give/do love will grow as well. Also, the bible says that only God makes things grow.

Also, you should know by now at least in my posts, that I dont think any of us are good. That I think only God is good and that good is expressed in countless creative ways through us. I dont believe it is the truth to say that a Christian is good simply because he has faith, and neither does James it appears. Jesus says that we must practice what he taught... practice is doing, at least the way I see it.

"We didn't start the fire"

[robskydiv 0]

Quote

You can't say Merry Christmas. It's offensive. You're supposed to say happy holidays.... because the holidays just evolved out of nowhere. $20 says the majority of atheists take Dec 25th off work.

Merry Christmas! Nice OP!