champu 1
Recommended Posts
Bolas 5
QuoteQuoteWell, someone talking directly to me out of a burning bush, when I was not sick or drunk, would be reasonably convincing.
God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure. Not even miracles (especially done in light of modern technology) can open the eyes to salvation... it has to be let in.
You may be convinced by an angel in a burning bush, but the influence of the world is always working in our minds, many may find resons to doubt even after such a miraculous occurance. Unbelievable Miracles can be quite Unbelievable at times.
Ever heard the saying "look hard enough for something, and you'll find it?"
Example:
A person thinks their SO is cheating on them or no longer loves them. Their jealousy, acts, and possible accusations may drive that other person away or into the arms of another whereas if there wasn't the seed to begin with, they might have been together forever.
In the above scenario, I'd personally not succumb to those feelings or let them influence me until I had reason to believe something was going on.
I think of religion sort of the same way. If I were to believe in a higher power I'd probably be able to find things that I'd feel enforced that belief, but the issue is, I'm no longer objective.
"If all you have is hammer, every problem is a nail."
A supreme being is the ultimate hammer.
The interesting thing about this whole discussion is it may have shown me why it is so hard to debate religion.
Athiests argue the existence of supreme being(s) whereas religious people only care about their belief in them. It seems to me, the actually existence of such a being(s) is seemingly inconsequential in their minds. To them, it's their belief that makes them real which in a way sort of does to them.
Sorta like the pro life/pro choice debates, they aren't exactly defined opposites.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
QuoteNot as of yet, but perhaps someday, an autopsy may actually answer that question. Of course, if someone were to request such a procedure on a deceased loved one, it would probably be more interesting to look into their brain's biochemistry.
Life is like going to see a magician. You may find your friend who keeps explaining to you how all the tricks work incredibly annoying, but that doesn't make him wrong.
Im trying to understand your mind in light of these statements, and Im having a little difficulty (which is not your fault at all). The brainchemistry thing is very interesting, but I dont think it really addresses the point about how love gets to one mind from another. I believe it has to be let in, and it seems you think differently. How things work have never been much interest to me, but why things work has, and this could be the difference between yours and my brain chemistry, but I am fighting to understand where your coming from.
For me life is a miracle, so explaining how it works is not as important as understanding why it works. Nothing in life is worth anything without life. Again, you and I think differently but that doesnt mean we are wrong. If the absolute scientific truth, met the absolute spiritual truth, the one that is more important to life would have the greatest universal power, (as it relates to life) but it seems that the design of our minds is so, that some crave one over the other.
Basically for me I have found that life has no worth on this planet without love. That there is something incredibly fascinating about how powerful love actually is... it just ignites us and fills us with life to the fullest. It doesnt take anything away, though we still deal with loss, on the contrary, it gives and gives and gives. While the balance seems to need both the light and the dark, my hope and my desire is to persevere in the light.
"We didn't start the fire"
QuoteA person thinks their SO is cheating on them or no longer loves them. Their jealousy, acts, and possible accusations may drive that other person away or into the arms of another whereas if there wasn't the seed to begin with, they might have been together forever.
Paranoia is fear based and love is greater than fear; For me that is not something I had to look too hard for, just seems to make sense to me. I am aware that can be an arbitrary statement to the more argumentative types, but for me, I find the answer in this question, "Does love save us from fear, or does fear save us from love?"
QuoteIn the above scenario, I'd personally not succumb to those feelings or let them influence me until I had reason to believe something was going on.
Sounds true to me :)
QuoteI think of religion sort of the same way. If I were to believe in a higher power I'd probably be able to find things that I'd feel enforced that belief, but the issue is, I'm no longer objective.
This is where it gets a little fuzzy in my head... Theres something here, but I have to think on it. Sounds like the revelation vs reason thing we were discussing earlier with champu.
The assumption in your scenario is that the reason comes before the revelation, or that the reason found the revelation, but at least in my case, it was the revelation that found the reasoning. I wasnt looking for reason to support the revelation of God, (It was far more powerful than I can explain), instead, the revelation gives the reasoning quite freely and suprisingly at times, if I remain open and free to think freely.
And, if my mind is open within the revelation then perhaps its not as objective as it appears? If I am considered objective because I am filled with a gratitude (that goes way beyond my worth), through the revelation, then you would be right. Theres a sensative line here somewehre, but it is a line still.
Quote"If all you have is hammer, every problem is a nail."
A supreme being is the ultimate hammer
The supreme being could also be considered the scientific mind as well. There are plenty who believe science is the truth and the ultimate hammer. And I dont think I am just being argumentative, at least I hope not.
QuoteAthiests argue the existence of supreme being(s) whereas religious people only care about their belief in them. It seems to me, the actually existence of such a being(s) is seemingly inconsequential in their minds. To them, it's their belief that makes them real which in a way sort of does to them.
I can see the reach for reason and understanding here, and it is appreciated, but its racked with inconsistency, assumption, and bias in my mind (I say that with all respect). Ultimately, the revelation of God is being grossly underestimated. I did not reveal anything, God reveals himself, and the experience is quite humbling to say the least, in a very grace-filled way. My experieince did not happen in a church with many poeple ect... I was completely alone in a room in my apartment, the rest im afraid you wouldnt believe.
Back to the objectivity thing. I think the problem isnt God, its what people believe in regards to him. But, we should discuss that a little further. For now, ill just post this.
"We didn't start the fire"
maadmax 0
The interesting thing about this whole discussion is it may have shown me why it is so hard to debate religion.
Athiests argue the existence of supreme being(s) whereas religious people only care about their belief in them. It seems to me, the actually existence of such a being(s) is seemingly inconsequential in their minds. To them, it's their belief that makes them real which in a way sort of does to them.
Athiests argue the existence of supreme being(s) whereas religious people only care about their belief in them. It seems to me, the actually existence of such a being(s) is seemingly inconsequential in their minds. To them, it's their belief that makes them real which in a way sort of does to them.
My understanding of God is that He created us with a need to search for Truth and has given us the ability to find it. Whether we are unraveling His physical creation through scientific study or trying to work out the mysteries of His love. Man made religions, as you say, creates a belief system and then reshapes god into the image of their dogma. Spiritual communion with God is a very personal experience, you either grasp the depth of your need and allow God to fill it or you reject Him and attempt to fill it yourself.
...
rwieder 0
QuoteGod didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.
I know i took one sentence out of your paragraph, but i felt the need to address it. Salvation is not hard to find at all. "Seek ye first the kingdom of god and all of the other things shall be added unto you"
Salvation is a prayer away. If you invite Jesus Christ into you life, it shall be done, it's God's promise to us. Simple as that.
God is a jealous God. Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."
-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"
QuoteQuoteGod didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.
I know i took one sentence out of your paragraph, but i felt the need to address it. Salvation is not hard to find at all. "Seek ye first the kingdom of god and all of the other things shall be added unto you"
Salvation is a prayer away. If you invite Jesus Christ into you life, it shall be done, it's God's promise to us. Simple as that.
God is a jealous God. Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."
God is mocked daily. God (assuming His existence) does not appear to care anymore than I would care if I were to be mocked by ants. One has to think that an omniscient and omnipotent being would find humans to be quite insignificant.
As for salvation, I believe the rules on that are a bit more stringent than one prayer. For example, I seem to recall Jesus inviting a man to give up all his wealth to come follow him, because rich folk will have a difficult time getting into heaven.
jakee 1,489
QuoteGod is a jealous God. Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."
God can't tell his arse from his elbow. God is mocked. I refute you.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteGod is a jealous God. Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."
God can't tell his arse from his elbow. God is mocked. I refute you.
People need to lighten up. If God can have a sense of humor, so can they.
http://whatsupdownsouth.blogspot.com/God_At_His_Computer.jpg
pirana 0
QuoteIf one truly wanted to help save mankind from their evil ways, why would anyone not want direct proof if it encouraged more to follow in his path? How could that be a bad thing?
The religious faithful absolutely do not want this to happen; and isn't it an irony that it is the skeptics that would most welcome it - because we are open to evidence and will follow it to whatever truth to which it leads.
It would be game over for those that live by faith-based principles if we are ever presented with the answers to the big questions.
Kind of like the philosophers in the Hitchhikers Guide who realize that if the ultimate questions get answered via actual observation and objective analysis of information; they'll be out of a job.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
pirana 0
QuoteQuoteFrom http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3754539#3754539
QuoteThe physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment.
Discuss.
Exactly. They not only like oogie-boogie, they absolutely need it to stay in place." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
I know i took one sentence out of your paragraph, but i felt the need to address it. Salvation is not
For some, the search takes a lifetime. But your right, when it is found, it is found, and that is the promise. Not sure why you told me not to mock God though, unless you think I was?
Quotehard to find at all. "Seek ye first the kingdom of god and all of the other things shall be added unto you"
Salvation is a prayer away. If you invite Jesus Christ into you life, it shall be done, it's God's promise to us. Simple as that.
God is a jealous God. Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."
For some, the search takes a lifetime. But your right, when it is found, it is found, and that is the promise. Not sure why you told me not to mock God though, unless you think I was?
"We didn't start the fire"
Not as of yet, but perhaps someday, an autopsy may actually answer that question. Of course, if someone were to request such a procedure on a deceased loved one, it would probably be more interesting to look into their brain's biochemistry.
Life is like going to see a magician. You may find your friend who keeps explaining to you how all the tricks work incredibly annoying, but that doesn't make him wrong.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites