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Bolas

Possibly a argument for religion you may not have heard before...

By Bolas, in Speakers Corner

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rynodigsmusic    0

rynodigsmusic
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If one truly wanted to help save mankind from their evil ways, why would anyone not want direct proof if it encouraged more to follow in his path? How could that be a bad thing?



The religious faithful absolutely do not want this to happen; and isn't it an irony that it is the skeptics that would most welcome it - because we are open to evidence and will follow it to whatever truth to which it leads.

It would be game over for those that live by faith-based principles if we are ever presented with the answers to the big questions.

Kind of like the philosophers in the Hitchhikers Guide who realize that if the ultimate questions get answered via actual observation and objective analysis of information; they'll be out of a job.



I think maadmax's previous post addresses everything quite clearly... he has a way with thrift that I do not, but, instead of using assumption against believers, why not address it within your own heart and mind as well? Begin by asking yourself, whats most important to you in this life, and then trying out the possiblity that science is not going to satisfy your desire for that importance, and that it is possible that the spirit of God is real?

There is an assumption that those who live by faith, live by faith without reason; but what happens is that man sees God, believe it or not, that doesnt take much faith, its quite blatent and clearly cannot be denied, but what takes faith is keeping that vision and that power in the heart after the "baptism". What I was vastly unprepared for was the amount of suprising revelation that followed and continue to follow, which, if you read in my posts are the reasonings that support what was found. And the way God designed his eternal grace was that it has to be lived to be understood.

Grace is kept apart from the knowledge of the world, just as love is in nature. Meaning it cant be understood in the mind without being understood in the heart (where you keep your greatest treasure, where things are sacred to you, the place you only share with trust ect..) Okay, science can study love, and even "apparently" unite us in love (still doubt that one though, sorry), and understand how it works, and affects the mind ect... but the power of love is eternal and goes beyond our understanding.

For example, what if I told the US that we need to get rid of all our weapons, become completely defenseless, and fight our "enemies" with love and understanding? The US would not elect me president, but just becasue it is not understood, does not mean it is not the right way, or is just an un-realstic dream... its more than possible, but we woud have to find love beyond our own understanding, which is what Christ offers. It was not fully understood why he went to the cross until he was ressurected, and his spirit began to teach those who would listen.

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Kind of like the philosophers in the Hitchhikers Guide who realize that if the ultimate questions get answered via actual observation and objective analysis of information; they'll be out of a job



Do you really believe this? forgive me, but it doesnt show that much depth in thought to be honest. what if the greatest risk in life is the one you never take, that is, would you risk death to find life? If the answer is yes, then you are a much deeper person than that quote from a "hitchhikers guide", because you realize that life is more than just being alive.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
"We didn't start the fire"

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Bolas    5

Bolas
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Begin by asking yourself, whats most important to you in this life, and then trying out the possiblity that science is not going to satisfy your desire for that importance,



Getting laid. Science is working hard on that (Pun intended). :P
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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SpeedRacer    1

SpeedRacer
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As for salvation, I believe the rules on that are a bit more stringent than one prayer. For example, I seem to recall Jesus inviting a man to give up all his wealth to come follow him, because rich folk will have a difficult time getting into heaven



The point of that story was that rich people (which would include probably everyone here) often tend to go through life thinking they've got everything under control. The rich young man who approached Jesus was framing it like : "What do I have to do to get myself into heaven?"

Jesus was trying to make the point that you can't, by your own efforts, get yourself into heaven. Only God can save you.

A common theme in Jesus' teachings. But something that rich people (like us, compared to most of the world thru most of history) have a hard time dealing with. Rich folks tend to feel as though they've got everything under control & don't need help from anyone else, including God.
Speed Racer
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wolfriverjoe    1,523

wolfriverjoe
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>Be ye not decieved: "God is NOT mocked."

Ever seen a platypus?



No, the platypus isn't a mocking of God.

Just a strong indication that God has a sense of humor.

And FWIW, there is a lot more serious philosiphy hidden in the humor of the "Hitchhiker's Guide" books than most people realize.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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rynodigsmusic    0

rynodigsmusic
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As for salvation, I believe the rules on that are a bit more stringent than one prayer. For example, I seem to recall Jesus inviting a man to give up all his wealth to come follow him, because rich folk will have a difficult time getting into heaven

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What I heard from speedracer was the truth, but I just wanted to add that Jesus spoke about the love of money being greater than the love of God, and visa versa, however he did go on to say that when the love of God is greater, that "those things" will be given to you as well, after the love of God enters, "those things" become gifts of God rather than rewards of man, and it that the heart finds gratitude in increasing measues.

The world rewards us with money, but God rewards us with the spiritual gifts of heaven. Can you have both is the question? and Jesus answers by saying "with man, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.", after all, many of the prophets of past, David, Abraham, Solomon, ect... were extremely wealthy and appreciative of that prosperity.

If you dig into what Jesus is saying and really think about it, you will see that you cant "buy" your way into heaven, and you cant un-buy your way out of heaven. If your desire is to be kept, you will be kept indeed. Also, you can ask yourself how much sense does it make to say that only poor people will find heaven, and only rich people will find hell? Rather, the rich person usaully has a greater desire for money (which is a false control as SR said) and the poor man has to rely on more than money, by nature. So, its easier for a poor man and more difficult for a rich man, but in the Gospel it is revealed that neither are excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven at all. Unless of course someone can show me differently.

As for the "rules" of salvation... persevereance in grace is really the only "rule", (although its more a gift). If one leaves grace in his heart, he wont desire to get it back, but the Gospel leads me to believe that he could if he wanted to, as Jesus does say that all things are possible through God.

As always, I may have wrote too much again. Merry Christmas though
"We didn't start the fire"

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rynodigsmusic    0

rynodigsmusic
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Just a strong indication that God has a sense of humor.



Laughing is good as far as I can tell, and the platypus discussion is hilarious. I have thought about God having a sense of humor alot as well, and what I have come up with is that is a great understatement! Just relax, laugh if you can, and let be what is... how much could you have changed, and would you have changed anyway? Love is a great peace that surpasses all understanding.
"We didn't start the fire"

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georgerussia    0

georgerussia
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God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.



So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved?
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

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maadmax    0

maadmax
God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.


So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved?



It is not limited to the intelligent, otherwise you would already have it all figured it out and be saved. It is a matter of seeking God with humility. The difficulty comes from our inability to set aside our pride and arrogance so that we can see God as He is, not as we have created him.


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Bolas    5

Bolas
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God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.


So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved?



It is not limited to the intelligent, otherwise you would already have it all figured it out and be saved. It is a matter of seeking God with humility. The difficulty comes from our inability to set aside our pride and arrogance so that we can see God as He is, not as we have created him.


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Isn't that what religion does? Creates their own interpretation of God? :o
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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kallend    2,026

kallend
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God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.


So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved?





It is not limited to the intelligent, otherwise you would already have it all figured it out and be saved. It is a matter of seeking God with humility. The difficulty comes from our inability to set aside our pride and arrogance so that we can see God as He is, not as we have created him.


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Isn't that what religion does? Creates their own interpretation of God? :o

Organized religion does a lot of things, a few of them are even good things. On the whole though, organized religion just causes grief in the world.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend    2,026

kallend
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God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure.


So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved?



It is not limited to the intelligent, otherwise you would already have it all figured it out and be saved. It is a matter of seeking God with humility. The difficulty comes from our inability to set aside our pride and arrogance so that we can see God as He is, not as we have created him.


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All we can do is see what we have created, because no god chooses to reveal him/herself in a way that can be validated by any objective method.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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rynodigsmusic    0

rynodigsmusic
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Isn't that what religion does? Creates their own interpretation of God?



The truth allows us to experience God. There are "religions" without truth, and there are people who follow them without belief as well. The truth can only be revealed to the individual as you can only believe what you were can.. I mean, why believe in something that doesnt make sense?
"We didn't start the fire"

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maadmax    0

maadmax
All we can do is see what we have created, because no god chooses to reveal him/herself in a way that can be validated by any objective method.



Yes, you are correct. But that handicap does not have to limit our pursuit of metaphysical/spiritual matters. The objective scientific method is great for things concerning leptons, hadrons, and fundamental forces. But it is pitifully inadequate when used to discern the intent of the mind.


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