Pot smokers

[Glitch 0]

No shit.... absolutely, hands down not contest, the best I've ever smoked was homegrown. When one grows their own, there is a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment of sorts... you know what chemicals, if any, are used on the girls... you pick when to harvest for maximum potentcy... you know you're not spending $$$ on crap weed or contributing to the coffers of drug cartels and all the violence that goes along with it.

So let's all stop with the bullshit already. Decriminalize / legalize it... and let's all do our part in the 'War On Terrorism' and grow our own!

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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The large importers are the same ones who bring you cocaine, heroin, and cook your meth. They do rob, and murder for it.

No argument as far as the importers are concerned. I speaking of the consumers. Its much less risky to drive across the border with 2 or 3 kilos of cocaine than it is to come across with 50 pounds of marijuana. Im not speaking of the penalty, im speaking of the actual moving itself. Think what you want, most people are buying their "weed" from frineds, who know freinds, who know freinds who GROW. As I said before are not due to the plant itself, but the legalities involved. If people are killing because they can get weed into america, then maybe we should address why they are trying to get it here so badly in the first place?

No one is arguing that weed is not a habit, or that it doesnt have negative implications on its users, but come on, someday, soon Im sure, they'll say that someone cant have children because of all the cell phone usage, or fast food eaten, or hoards of adrenaline pumping through their system as a result of extreme sports... Someone always knows someone now dont they? I would love to hear more about the sterile thing from a doctor to be honest... that sounds ridiculous to me, and I have heard that of course before. But if there is solid difinitive evidence, then I havent heard it yet. Of course, I always reserve the right to be wrong.

"We didn't start the fire"

[jcd11235 0]

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People are making assumptions based on simple economics. It doesn't work that way.

It does work that way.

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Like Aggiedave said, there's a whole lot more involved. For instance, Mexico is plenty mad at us due to California's "Medical pot" laws. There is a lot of pot being sold legally that was received from Mexico.

Mexico has never been known for its high quality ganja. They are known for high quantity, low quality stuff, which isn't typically what people obtain for medical purposes. If Mexico is "plenty mad" over medical pot legalization, it is because they are losing business because of it.

(For those unaware, high quality pot is grown indoors with lighting conditions that offer the plants more light than the sun can provide over the same period of time.)

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And as you know, there is a huge war going on down there and cops are being killed left and right trying to stop the trafficking.

Eliminate the laws making marijuana illegal, and that trafficking stops.

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There are still going to be violent crimes if we legalize here.

Probably, but they won't be able to blame the crime on marijuana any longer.

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As long as it's illegal somewhere else, there is going to be the correct imbalance needed to provide for drug profiteering.

Just as the world tended to follow suit when the US made marijuana illegal, so will they likely follow if the US legalizes the herb.

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America is too lazy to grow their own.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Americans are already growing their own. Most high grade pot is grown locally, with very few links between grower and smoker.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

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The same reason many people go through drive throughs instead of going home and grilling up a hamburger. Or going to a 7-11 because it is closer than a much cheaper supermarket. This is a fast paced society. Also, don't forget; most live in apartments and/or (especially here in San diego) are the rolling homeless without tracts of land to grow. Legalization will decrease prices (sin taxes not being included because I can't predict what taxation programs would come into place with this) and I believe the lesser price (possibly by mass production by corporations) will actually make it more expensive to grow your own stuff. Pretty much like fruits and vegetables now.

The growers (er, I mean the people who know people who know growers) here can speak to this, but I would guess that the cost of growing pot is less than any tax that would be proposed, nevermind the actual price. It's not much harder than growing tomatoes, though indoor lighting would have an electric cost.

I suspect this is the big trap in the movement to legalize for the purpose of taxation. The home growers are going to be hard to tax, and if the tax is high enough, there will be great financial incentive to do it, in addition to the quality arguments being made here.

[mnealtx 0]

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I suspect this is the big trap in the movement to legalize for the purpose of taxation. The home growers are going to be hard to tax, and if the tax is high enough, there will be great financial incentive to do it, in addition to the quality arguments being made here.

Wickard v. Filburn, part II?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

It's hard to tax what you can't see. A farm is big, someone's personal indoor or outdoor pot farm may be just a few plants.

[mnealtx 0]

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It's hard to tax what you can't see. A farm is big, someone's personal indoor or outdoor pot farm may be just a few plants.

Gonzales v. Raich was over a half dozen plants, as I recall.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[thrillstalker 0]

"even if you take all the reefer madness allegations at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more damage than marijuana ever could."

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[nanook 1]

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It does work that way.

No it doesn't. You are looking at this like a local legal business.

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They are known for high quantity, low quality stuff, which isn't typically what people obtain for medical purposes

Are you telling me medical pot sufferers hold up for some of the best stuff? This sounds too picky for people who are in need. What kind of "medical" purposes does the good stuff provide better? After all, what is the required amount of the active ingredient is needed to treat the ailments? I'm pretty suspicious of this medical MJ needs.

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If Mexico is "plenty mad" over medical pot legalization, it is because they are losing business because of it.

Nope, they are plenty mad because it increased trafficking and while at the same time they are cracking down with the help of the US, the state of CA decides to lax the Medical MJ laws and it causes problems.

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Eliminate the laws making marijuana illegal, and that trafficking stops.

You are right here. And this is where it will become a complex situation. Will other countries follow suit though? A lot of them illegalized and cracked down late in the game. Will they now follow suit after what they put in? They will probably will feel cheated, pissed off. It's all political and it's going to be a mess. That's just one problem, for example.

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There are still going to be violent crimes if we legalize here.

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Probably, but they won't be able to blame the crime on marijuana any longer.

I thought we were trying to curb violence due to trafficking. Isn't this the hubb-bubb? To me, this sounds like a plea to get the spotlight off the MJ so you can smoke. Are you okay with the violence moving to other areas so you can have your pot? At the epense of other people? One thing about Prohibition; when it was legalized, the violent crime moved. Not stopped, moved. But instead of gangster to gangster, it was more blue on blue. Also with the increase of automobiles, we have a lot of deaths on the roadways. There's way more violence now. A bit 20/20, but still, Alcholhol is a major problem here. If you want to know how pot is dangerous to people, especially inpressionable people, then all you have to do is talk to some psychologists and therapists that deal with this on a daily basis.

If people want to break the law for their own selfish reasons and then claim that the laws are unjust and we should "huyk. . .legalize pot, dude", then I have no problem paying to keep them locked up. This isn't a Grand Fight of the Century here folks! This is just an inmature antiauthoritorian attitude.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Glitch 0]

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Are you telling me medical pot sufferers hold up for some of the best stuff?

Yes, that's what he's saying. Different strains / types provide a different high; intensity, how it affects your mental state, physical state, etc. Some strains provide an intense uplifting or cerebal high, some provide a mellow buzz, some grant the smoker w/ a serious case of couch-lock, and so on.

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This sounds too picky for people who are in need.

Really? How so? The individuals typically, IMHO, just want something to kill their symptoms w/out having to purchase / get addicted to high $$$ pain relievers. ...or to control severe nausea due to chemo. ...or any number of other examples. Have you ever had an injury requiring pain meds, such as a compound fracture, surgery, or a herniated disk? How would you feel if all you were given were some aspirins or something that didn't do the job and were told thats all you could have because what could/would work is illegal to prescribe?

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What kind of "medical" purposes does the good stuff provide better? After all, what is the required amount of the active ingredient is needed to treat the ailments?

I don't believe there is a magic number on how much THC is required for relief.

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I'm pretty suspicious of this medical MJ needs.

From personal experience, I know that there IS a bonified need for medicanal pot though. I was the PCG to my dad as he died of pancreatic cancer. As his disease progressed, the amount of morphine required to alleviate the pain increased. With the increase of his meds, along came the nausea. Just the smell of food could be enough for him to hurl. Working with hospice, we tried everything imaginable to get his nausea under control. Yes, we tried the synthetic mj (marinol i think it was called), with very limited succcess. When we ran out of options, I asked the hospice nurse if real weed would work better. She said it was worth a try since she had had patients have positive results from it, but she couldn't reccommend or perscribe it due to legalities. Well, I scored some and guess what? It WORKED! It killed the nausea so well that he actually gained weight.

I'm pretty sure that if you're ever unfortunate enough to experience something similar, you will no longer have any doubt.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[happythoughts 0]

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I suspect this is the big trap in the movement to legalize for the purpose of taxation. The home growers are going to be hard to tax, and if the tax is high enough, there will be great financial incentive to do it, in addition to the quality arguments being made here.

Alcohol is legal for home brewing, but few do.
It's just too easy.

Most people order pizza and sandwiches.
I doubt many would use the extra home space and
the time once legal commercial growing occurred.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Alcohol is legal for home brewing, but few do.
It's just too easy.

Alcohol is much cheaper, and you need substantially more of it. Beer takes weeks, wine takes years to complete.

But it's really about the market price and tax levels (more the latter).

[mnealtx 0]

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But it's really about the market price and tax levels (more the latter).

So look for the union label, when you are buying a joint, lid or pound...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nanook 1]

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Really? How so? The individuals typically, IMHO, just want something to kill their symptoms w/out having to purchase / get addicted to high $$$ pain relievers. ...or to control severe nausea due to chemo. ...or any number of other examples.

Your last part about your father is good ancedote that this medical pot is supposed to alleviate. I'm sorry for your loss.

But there are disingenous reasons behind the medical MJ debates. I believe that they are using terminal patients as a ruse to get their precious weed and the arrests of pot disperser owners over abuse, the crackdowns happening in california, and way too many prescriptions than terminal patients are not helping me change my mind on the pot pushers. There's increase of blight and crime around the dispensaries and there are lots of complaints coming from neighbors of growers about the workers. All of this is with selling and growing of Legal pot. This example tells me that legalizing pot would increase crime and issues than decrease it.




Have a Happy Christmas!

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

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It does work that way.

No it doesn't. You are looking at this like a local legal business.

Yes it does. It is basic economics. Unless someone can provide a factor that causes those basic principles to break down, something no one in this thread (or any other discussion I'm aware of) has done thus far, then we can assume they are the most significant factors. Prohibition offers us an historical precedent supporting that.

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Are you telling me medical pot sufferers hold up for some of the best stuff?

In the states where they can obtain it without fear of interference from state or local law enforcement, yes, consumers of medical marijuana prefer higher quality herb. The potency is a better known quantity, and less need be smoked for the desired effects.

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This sounds too picky for people who are in need. What kind of "medical" purposes does the good stuff provide better?

Among other things, it tends to be harvested at precisely the correct time, which prevents the THC to start breaking down into other chemical compounds. Among the benefits of this includes less drowsiness from smoking high grade cannabis compared to commercial grade cannabis.

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Nope, they are plenty mad because it increased trafficking and while at the same time they are cracking down with the help of the US, the state of CA decides to lax the Medical MJ laws and it causes problems.

That seems highly unlikely, to the point of unbelievable without seeing where all of that extra commercial grade ganja is being consumed. I don't live in California, but I'm pretty sure if I walked into a medical pot cooperative, I would be able to find a lot more locally grown (or imported from Canada) fluffy sinsemilla than "flat, seedy, brown bud."

Perhaps one of our California posters could visit a few medical marijuana "retail centers" and confirm or deny that suspicion.

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Eliminate the laws making marijuana illegal, and that trafficking stops.

You are right here. And this is where it will become a complex situation. Will other countries follow suit though? A lot of them illegalized and cracked down late in the game. Will they now follow suit after what they put in? They will probably will feel cheated, pissed off. It's all political and it's going to be a mess. That's just one problem, for example.

I think you underestimate the influence that US policy has around the world regarding drugs like marijuana. Other countries are not clueless regarding the relative lack of danger compared with legal alternatives such as alcohol.

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There are still going to be violent crimes if we legalize here.

Probably, but they won't be able to blame the crime on marijuana any longer.

I thought we were trying to curb violence due to trafficking. Isn't this the hubb-bubb?

Legalizing marijuana will virtually eliminate the violence caused by trafficking marijuana. However, just like the mob didn't go away after Amendment 21 was ratified and took alcohol away from them as a major source of revenue, the Mexican cartels aren't going to go away just because marijuana trafficking will no longer provide them with a major source of revenue.

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To me, this sounds like a plea to get the spotlight off the MJ so you can smoke. Are you okay with the violence moving to other areas so you can have your pot?

I'm tired of violence caused by drug laws being blamed on drugs. It is the laws that are bad, not the drugs. Therefore, the laws should be changed.

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At the epense of other people? One thing about Prohibition; when it was legalized, the violent crime moved. Not stopped, moved.

And the same will be true with the Mexican cartels. That just means that marijuana is not the fundamental problem causing the violence. It is the fundamental problems that need to be addressed. In the meantime, creating more criminals via victimless crimes in this country does nothing but provide an easy source of income for those cartels.

Why not legalize cannabis and take advantage of the opportunity that a disruption of the cartels' income will provide to the Mexican government and law enforcement. That seems a lot more constructive than whining about how the issue is just too complex so we should just continue with our policy of legislated injustice.

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Alcholhol is a major problem here.

Funny you should mention that. How big of a problem is alcohol in countries with much lower minimum drinking ages than the US has?

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If you want to know how pot is dangerous to people, especially inpressionable people, then all you have to do is talk to some psychologists and therapists that deal with this on a daily basis.

If you want to know how dangerous pot (or any other drug) is (or, more accurately, isn't), ask people that have been using regularly for many years (think decades). Trying to get accurate information from a psychologist or therapist that lacks substantial first hand experience is a waste of time.

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If people want to break the law for their own selfish reasons and then claim that the laws are unjust and we should "huyk. . .legalize pot, dude", then I have no problem paying to keep them locked up.

That's exactly the mindset that allows us to imprison more people than any other nation on the planet, both in absolute numbers and per capita. Personally, I would like to see the US cease being a police state that locks people up and classifies them as criminals for committing victimless crimes, but you're free to have your own opinion.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[nanook 1]

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Yes it does. It is basic economics. Unless someone can provide a factor that causes those basic principles to break down, something no one in this thread (or any other discussion I'm aware of) has done thus far, then we can assume they are the most significant factors. Prohibition offers us an historical precedent supporting that.

It breaks down when the supplier can change product they supply. If you can jump to something new, you can stay in business. You aren't getting rid of the bad guys. Basic economics doesn't work for most issues even in legal businesses. I'm sure you have heard of the kinked demand curves in ogliopolies.

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That seems highly unlikely, to the point of unbelievable without seeing where all of that extra commercial grade ganja is being consumed. I don't live in California, but I'm pretty sure if I walked into a medical pot cooperative, I would be able to find a lot more locally grown (or imported from Canada) fluffy sinsemilla than "flat, seedy, brown bud."

Most comes from CA, then Canada and Mexico last. The last part is enough to enrage the mexican police. It is not the biggest seller, of course. But I don't think the mexicans care about that.

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I think you underestimate the influence that US policy has around the world regarding drugs like marijuana. Other countries are not clueless regarding the relative lack of danger compared with legal alternatives such as alcohol.

All western world countries have some sort of control over the drug. If the US had any hand in this, then it is a pretty strong influence. If a weak influence, they instigated it themselves. If these countries are not clueless about said dangers of this drug, why have none straight out legalize it? The best they got is Decriminalization.

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That seems a lot more constructive than whining about how the issue is just too complex so we should just continue with our policy of legislated injustice.

Actually, we are not the ones whining here. We are saying it's too complex to the layman armchair MJ supporter whose largest contribution to thier own cause is a medical MJ card. Somtimes seeing is believing. Most, if any, do not see anything more than their favorite past-time being trampled on by a bunch of "ignorant fools". I can't help you here.

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Funny you should mention that. How big of a problem is alcohol in countries with much lower minimum drinking ages than the US has?

Pretty standard to say the least:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7093143.stm

Another thing to consider in the "complex" problem: Every country has it's own cultural psychological profile. Nothing in one country is going to have the same effect or significance as the other. This source, if anything, shows how alcohol has different effects to individual cultural divisions. Somehow, having pot available legally to people in the US has a more negative impact than most of the EU.

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If you want to know how dangerous pot (or any other drug) is (or, more accurately, isn't), ask people that have been using regularly for many years (think decades). Trying to get accurate information from a psychologist or therapist that lacks substantial first hand experience is a waste of time.

Good for them. Unfortunately, not everyone is a success to ancedotal evidence. Are these people only paying attention to their success and not observing someone who has gone the wrong path? Why would they? Also, 1. who said psychologists have to have never smoked weed to practice? 2. even if they didn't, wouldn't it make them easier to spot an issue without the pot-empathy clouding thier judgement? 3. Even if they have smoked, wouldn't it be a strengh they can relate to the patient? The answer is yes to all. I know one professional from each group. Pot is a big catalyst.

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That's exactly the mindset that allows us to imprison more people than any other nation on the planet,

I don't give a crap to how we compare to other countries. Their issues are unique. Our issues are unique. That is just a meaningless argument.

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Personally, I would like to see the US cease being a police state that locks people up and classifies them as criminals for committing victimless crimes, but you're free to have your own opinion.

You do not know what a police state is. Quit pretending.

What victimless crime? There is a lot of RV's(rolling homeless) parkedby the curbs in my community stinking the air up with pot. They are an eyesore and they are introducing a lot of trash everywhere. The dispensaries in LA has attracted crime. The potheads in ocean beach leave litter and dump your trash and generally blight the neighborhoods, especially in summer. There are a hell of a lot of victims. Especially homeowners and vacationers.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

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It breaks down when the supplier can change product they supply.

No, changing products does not break down the economic principles.

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If you can jump to something new, you can stay in business. You aren't getting rid of the bad guys.

No one is claiming it will make the bad guys go away. That's a strawman argument. What it does is removes marijuana from the equation.

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Basic economics doesn't work for most issues even in legal businesses.

Incorrect. In many situations, other considerations (e.g., addictive characteristics of a product) must be taken into account, as they may become dominant economic forces, but in this situation, the increase in production and distribution costs caused by the legal status are the dominant factors. Legalize cannabis, and the costs associated with both is drastically reduced, eliminating cannabis as a major source of income for the cartels.

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That seems highly unlikely, to the point of unbelievable without seeing where all of that extra commercial grade ganja is being consumed. I don't live in California, but I'm pretty sure if I walked into a medical pot cooperative, I would be able to find a lot more locally grown (or imported from Canada) fluffy sinsemilla than "flat, seedy, brown bud."

Most comes from CA, then Canada and Mexico last. The last part is enough to enrage the mexican police. It is not the biggest seller, of course. But I don't think the mexicans care about that.

You keep missing (or deliberately ignoring) the fact that the commercial grade bud from Mexico isn't what medical users are consuming.

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If these countries are not clueless about said dangers of this drug, why have none straight out legalize it? The best they got is Decriminalization.

Se previous comments regarding the influence the US has had (and still has) regarding drug policies of other countries.

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We are saying it's too complex to the layman armchair MJ supporter whose largest contribution to thier own cause is a medical MJ card.

Yet, you have yet to supply any shred of evidence supporting your position, a position that flies in the face of well established economic principles. If the economic principles are wrong, it is on your side to provide evidence of that.

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Somtimes [sic] seeing is believing.

Judging from your posts, you haven't seen much regarding this issue.

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Most, if any, do not see anything more than their favorite past-time being trampled on by a bunch of "ignorant fools". I can't help you here.

First, it's not my favorite past time. Having said that, if some of those "ignorant fools," as you referred to them, would make an effort to educate themselves, it would be helpful.

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Funny you should mention that. How big of a problem is alcohol in countries with much lower minimum drinking ages than the US has?

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Pretty standard to say the least:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7093143.stm

Interesting that you chose an article that offered no comparison to the US.

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Unfortunately, not everyone is a success to ancedotal evidence.

In English, please?

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Are these people only paying attention to their success and not observing someone who has gone the wrong path?

"These people" (i.e. people with many years' experience with the drugs) have far more insight regarding the effects of the drugs to themselves and others than is available from other sources.

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Also, 1. who said psychologists have to have never smoked weed to practice?

No one said that the groups were mutually exclusive.

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even if they didn't, wouldn't it make them easier to spot an issue without the pot-empathy clouding thier judgement?

No. It would mean they have no realistic basis upon which to base their opinion.

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That's exactly the mindset that allows us to imprison more people than any other nation on the planet,

I don't give a crap to how we compare to other countries.

Well, that is one of many differences between us, it seems. I do care how we compare to other countries, especially if we are claiming to be a beacon of freedom in the world. But, like I said, if you don't mind that we imprison more people than China, North Korea, and other such authoritarian countries, you are free to have your belief.

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That is just a meaningless argument.

It isn't a meaningless argument at all. The war on drugs is an affront to civil rights. Some of us find such things appalling. Of course, there is no shortage of people that support infringing the rights of others, either.

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Personally, I would like to see the US cease being a police state that locks people up and classifies them as criminals for committing victimless crimes, but you're free to have your own opinion.

You do not know what a police state is. Quit pretending.

I can only assume that you are unable to support any countering argument.

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What victimless crime?

Have you been paying attention at all during this discussion? Drug use, particularly cannabis use, is a victimless crime.

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There is a lot of RV's(rolling homeless) parkedby the curbs in my community stinking the air up with pot. They are an eyesore and they are introducing a lot of trash everywhere.

That statement is very telling of your tolerance of people who might be different from you. It doesn't paint a pretty picture at all.

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The potheads in ocean beach leave litter and dump your trash and generally blight the neighborhoods, especially in summer.

Pot smoking does not equal littering. If people litter, they should be fined, regardless of whether or not they smoke pot.

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There are a hell of a lot of victims. Especially homeowners and vacationers.

Please, tell us how smoking pot makes victims out of home owners and vacationers.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[nanook 1]

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If the economic principles are wrong, it is on your side to provide evidence of that.

lets try this again. You are using economic principles wrong. I believe you are arguing about "simple economics" in the very basic freshman economics class style explaination as a general description and not something pertaining to our particular product of discussion. If that's the case, you are using the principles wrong.

You are arguing that crime will decrease and move away from MJ with the legalization process. Your biggest problem is the fact that you are using a Demand problem to really describe a Supply issue (Please don't dissappoint me by saying they are related)

1. It is a lot more complicated, because even if it was a demand sided problem, it's not simple due to the fact that there are many forces that curve that line. The formulas are horrendous and created by mathmaticians. Remember the movie "A beautiful mind?" That's one set of formulas given to economics.

2. This is a Supply problem. Why? because it's about how a cartel produces product and how they provide for supply.
You know that the cartels are growing inside the U.S., right? These are sold to anyone, including dispensaries. And they're still crossing some across the border. This info is easily found by googling.

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You keep missing (or deliberately ignoring) the fact that the commercial grade bud from Mexico isn't what medical users are consuming.

See Point 2

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Se previous comments regarding the influence the US has had (and still has) regarding drug policies of other countries.

So it was really about the opposite of what I thought you were saying about U.S. influence. Scratch that question then.

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First, it's not my favorite past time. Having said that, if some of those "ignorant fools," as you referred to them, would make an effort to educate themselves, it would be helpful.

Funny. I am thinking the same thing too.

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Interesting that you chose an article that offered no comparison to the US.

You didn't ask for comparison to the US. You asked about issues with alcohol in countries with lower drinking age. Your quote:

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Funny you should mention that. How big of a problem is alcohol in countries with much lower minimum drinking ages than the US has?

I also took that opportunity to show you that there is a difference in how different or even seemingly similar cultures may have different effect to the same issues. It's the same with Pot.

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"These people" (i.e. people with many years' experience with the drugs) have far more insight regarding the effects of the drugs to themselves and others than is available from other sources.

That's a huge claim. There are allowed in that group the absolutely oblivious to their surroundings and effects and the need to validate thier need to smoke weed. The insight I get here is an unhealthy attraction to a substance. They contribute to the harm to get thier buzz. Sounds like a problem to me.

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Judging from your posts, you haven't seen much regarding this issue.

I grew up poor. I've seen its effects. I spent half my Naval career so far keeping this crap from coming into our borders. I have seen more than you refuse to see.

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Please, tell us how smoking pot makes victims out of home owners and vacationers.

I have to say this again? It's all in my previous post. It blights neighborhoods, reduce values, increases crimes, and ruin beaches with thier trash actions and the tourists stop going there and the local business suffer. Again, google.

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That statement is very telling of your tolerance of people who might be different from you. It doesn't paint a pretty picture at all.

You know what's interesting? Criminals of various diciplines have said the exact same thing. You see this a lot in court proceedings, newspapers, and in Article 15's and courts martials.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

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You are arguing that crime will decrease and move away from MJ with the legalization process.

Corrected to reflect my argument rather than your strawman.

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Your biggest problem is the fact that you are using a Demand problem to really describe a Supply issue (Please don't dissappoint me by saying they are related)

Incorrect. I am saying that the profit on the supply side is derived from the risk associated with trafficking an illegal substance. Legalize the substance, and the risk, and consequently the profit, goes away for distribution of cannabis.

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These are sold to anyone, including dispensaries.

Once again, the commercial grade (i.e. low quality) outdoor grown, seedy bud that Mexico imports is not what the dispensaries are selling.

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Funny. I am thinking the same thing too.

So you'll try to educate yourself? Good.

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You didn't ask for comparison to the US.

It was implied in my statement. Never mind; it's a tangent, anyway.

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There are allowed in that group the absolutely oblivious to their surroundings and effects and the need to validate thier need to smoke weed. The insight I get here is an unhealthy attraction to a substance. They contribute to the harm to get thier buzz. Sounds like a problem to me.

That reality doesn't coincide with the propaganda you've apparently bought into is not indicative of "an unhealthy attraction to a substance." When you come to understand that, you might be able to explore the topic objectively.

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I grew up poor. I've seen its effects. I spent half my Naval career so far keeping this crap from coming into our borders.

That you spent half your career helping enforce the very laws that are causing so much damage to this country explains a lot w/r/t to your posts in this thread.

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I have to say this again? It's all in my previous post.

In your previous post, all you did was demonstrate that you are unable to distinguish between littering and smoking pot.

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It blights neighborhoods;

Bullshit. Pot smoking does not affect the appearance of neighborhoods.

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…reduce values …

Bullshit. Pot is smoked in affluent neighborhoods as much as it's smoked in poor neighborhoods.

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… increases crimes …

You're confusing the effects of the drugs with the effects of the drug laws. The drug laws are what cause the crime and violence so often (erroneously) associated with drugs.

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… and ruin beaches …

Please, name some beaches that have been ruined by pot smoking.

You seem to have a vivid imagination when it comes to the effects of smoking pot. Realize that those effects are not based in reality.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[masterblaster72 0]

Fixed.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Kool-Aid 0]

The Dutch people are brilliant..............

Oh Yea!!!!!!!!!!

[nanook 1]

Nope to all. But. . .

Have your self a Merry Christmas and a happy New year.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[nanook 1]

But. . . for after the new years, here's some more points for you to counter.

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You are arguing that crime will decrease and move away from MJ with the legalization process.
________________________________________

Corrected to reflect my argument rather than your strawman.

That’s fair. My mistake in the add of decrease. I agree with the correction.

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Incorrect. I am saying that the profit on the supply side is derived from the risk associated with trafficking an illegal substance. Legalize the substance, and the risk, and consequently the profit, goes away for distribution of cannabis.

??? Profit is a result of gross profit less all operating expenses. That happens in accountancy side of a business. There isn’t nothing in dealing with profit supply wise . Supply side anything deals with marginal cost. You defeat supply side issue by increasing the cost of producing.
Also, you never said anything about supply side in anything you posted. Normally, when arguing economic aspects of a product issue, its one side saying “it’s a demand side issue because of ____” and the other side Is ”it’s a supply side issue because of____”. It rarely, “supply side profit. . .” Supply has nothing to do with profit or loss. Please tell me, if you are a student, that you are not chasing a business degree. Historically, your posts do not reflect social, psychological or other aspects that adds to issues included that usually shows experience on top of proper education. (To me, this means someone under 25 and/or a college student)

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In your previous post, all you did was demonstrate that you are unable to distinguish between littering and smoking pot.

Bums digging through trash with alcohol, not pot on their breaths, equals cleaner alleyways. Then: Younger people giggling and laughing knocking down bins because it sounds cool or to evaluate the meaning on how the trash arrayed itself and its meaning to the universe, and smelling of pot when sprouting typical B.S. while i'm confronting them. Trustifarians hanging out all day on the beaches (scream confirmation bias if you want) and being more sloppier than the regular tourist.

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Bullshit. Pot smoking does not affect the appearance of neighborhoods.

It does if they hang out all high and loopy around court yards, outside their rv’s, saying weird things to the community children. Ask your local realtor if sales will fall through by these people.

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Bullshit. Pot is smoked in affluent neighborhoods as much as it's smoked in poor neighborhoods.

You don’t live in an affluent neighborhood apparently. You probably rent.

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You're confusing the effects of the drugs with the effects of the drug laws. The drug laws are what cause the crime and violence so often (erroneously) associated with drugs.

Nope, all you have to do is separate the arrests of possession and distribution out of the rest and compare. You still see an increase over the signal to noise ratio, you got increased crime.

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Please, name some beaches that have been ruined by pot smoking.

Ocean beach of San Diego CA for one. In the 70’s, it was a family beach community despite the hippie era. The bluffs that travel from the south was pretty much a private and clean affair. The Hells Angels moved in and brought the weed, among other stuff. We kicked out the HA’s and the weed decreased. Then 13 years ago, a dispensary opened and we were back to square one. A lot of family business that survived the Angels stay, quit and left. All that was able to stay was “munchies” places and business that glorified pot. The families (the biggest spenders) once again, went somewhere else, and all that was left were the penniless college students from outside the community that went to the bars. We paid more in taxes and bought tiles to lay on Newport Ave sidewalk to give money that the new customers weren’t supplying to the district. Everything to the north blighted and us up on the hill look down on what is really a hippie preserve/trustafarian hangout.

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You seem to have a vivid imagination when it comes to the effects of smoking pot. Realize that those effects are not based in reality.

Study by the NIH
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20017729?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

debunk each of these line by line and educate me.
the references for all are all below. Show me studies why each are wrong.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/marijBroch/Marijteenstxt.html#happens

Throwing you a bone. This shows healing properties of medical MJ. It’s from the same sites as the above links posted. hopefuly, you see the NIH and associated govt agencies as fair. You can go on further and see old pot myths debunked by them also. And you will see proof in other areas of the plant's dangers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8972919

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

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Profit is a result of gross profit less all operating expenses. That happens in accountancy side of a business. There isn’t nothing in dealing with profit supply wise . Supply side anything deals with marginal cost. You defeat supply side issue by increasing the cost of producing.

Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the business aspect of trafficking.

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Also, you never said anything about supply side in anything you posted. Normally, when arguing economic aspects of a product issue, its one side saying “it’s a demand side issue because of ____” and the other side Is ”it’s a supply side issue because of____”.

I apologize for not presenting my argument in the oversimplified manner that you seem to require for understanding.

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Supply has nothing to do with profit or loss.

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Please tell me, if you are a student, that you are not chasing a business degree. Historically, your posts do not reflect social, psychological or other aspects that adds to issues included that usually shows experience on top of proper education. (To me, this means someone under 25 and/or a college student)

Well, you're only about 100% off on your read of me. I'm speaking from a position of formal education and extensive personal experience.

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Bums digging through trash with alcohol, not pot on their breaths, equals cleaner alleyways.

Yeah, removing trash from dumpsters to dig through stuff below sure cleans things up. You seem to have an irrational bias against drug users and are attempting to assign to them undesirable characteristics without consideration of whether or not they actually deserve it.

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Then: Younger people giggling and laughing knocking down bins because it sounds cool or to evaluate the meaning on how the trash arrayed itself and its meaning to the universe, and smelling of pot when sprouting typical B.S. while i'm confronting them.

Thanks for making it obvious that you are clueless about the behavior of pot smokers!

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Trustifarians hanging out all day on the beaches (scream confirmation bias if you want) and being more sloppier than the regular tourist.

Another clueless statement from you.

Allow me to clue you in on the characteristics of pot smokers. They exist in all walks of life. Some are rich. Some are poor. Some are young; some are old. Some are well educated; others aren't. Some are conservative; some are liberal. Some are neat freaks; some are slobs. Some are gainfully employed; others are not. Some wear a suit and tie to work; some wear shorts and flip-flops (still others wear uniforms, including military). Some have long hair; some have business or military style haircuts. Some are very health conscious; others sustain themselves on fast food and soda. In my experience, the only thing that all pot smokers have in common is that they all smoke pot.

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It does if they hang out all high and loopy around court yards, outside their rv’s, saying weird things to the community children. Ask your local realtor if sales will fall through by these people.

Forgive me for laughing about how clueless you are on this topic. It appears that anytime you see behavior from anyone different from you, you assume they are smoking pot and that is the cause of their behavior. I would not be surprised if this is something you do to rationalize spending so much energy enforcing the drug laws that have cause so much harm to this country.

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You don’t live in an affluent neighborhood apparently. You probably rent.

Keep it up. You're making it apparent to everyone that you know nothing about pot smokers. Do you really believe that pot isn't smoked in affluent neighborhoods? Give me a break.

***Nope, all you have to do is separate the arrests of possession and distribution out of the rest and compare. You still see an increase over the signal to noise ratio, you got increased crime.

Wrong again, that isn't "all you have to do." Many other factors must also be considered.

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Ocean beach of San Diego CA for one. In the 70’s, it was a family beach community despite the hippie era. The bluffs that travel from the south was pretty much a private and clean affair. The Hells Angels moved in and brought the weed, among other stuff. We kicked out the HA’s and the weed decreased. Then 13 years ago, a dispensary opened and we were back to square one. A lot of family business that survived the Angels stay, quit and left. All that was able to stay was “munchies” places and business that glorified pot. The families (the biggest spenders) once again, went somewhere else, and all that was left were the penniless college students from outside the community that went to the bars. We paid more in taxes and bought tiles to lay on Newport Ave sidewalk to give money that the new customers weren’t supplying to the district. Everything to the north blighted and us up on the hill look down on what is really a hippie preserve/trustafarian hangout.

I get it. Anything that is less desirable to you is "ruined." How tolerant of you. Further, you seem to blame anything you deem to be undesirable on drugs, without justification.

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debunk each of these line by line and educate me.

I'm not going to do your research for you.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are aware that enough government anti-drug propaganda has been debunked as to call into question their credibility on the subject (to say the least).

It isn't me that needs to do my homework. Here is a good place for you to start.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[tbrown 26]

I smoked the ganja for ten years in my younger days. Quit a whole thirty years ago, just as the moderately strong Columbian of the 1970's was giving way to the killer buds people smoke nowadays. I don't like it anymore and think the buds are way too fucking strong. People smoking bud are IMPAIRED and should never drive, or else be pulled over and arrested same as a drunk driver.

That said, I'm also strongly in favor of legalization, taxation, and the same kind of controls that are in place over alcohol. People who smoke are not criminals. But there are too many criminals involved in the sale & distribution and they'll never be taken out of the picture until it's legalized.

As with alcohol, some people can handle the weed better than others. Some people handle it quite well and lead capable and responsible lives. Those who can't handle it have a MEDICAL problem. Taxes from the sale of legal ganja can help pay for treatment of the stoners who get messed up.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !