kallend 2,026 #451 January 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote No, you make a wild-assed guess, since the stats don't support it. At least be THAT honest. The way I view it, the stats indeed support that. Even you acknowledged that the gun crime rate is lower in Europe - you just claimed that it is because of the "culture difference", and not because of guns. Mike always resorts to the "culture difference" argument when the data don't support his preconceived ideas. He does it with guns, he does it with healthcare. I'm sure he'd do it with climate change too if he could think of a way. Yeah, John, because the 'youth crime' that has been discussed in the news and by the gov't for the last few DECADES are just because of all the guns laying around in the street, right? snip Should've read the link. Here's a towel - you'll need it for the egg on your face. Where's the PROOF that Europe doesn't have the same "cultural" problems? Nothing in your rant is relevant in the slightest. You lamely play the "culture" card whenever the data don't support your preconceived ideas.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #452 January 10, 2010 Quote The CDC's conclusions were, incidentally, not exactly what you claim (surprise!): Really? "The Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes." Sorry, it in fact said they could find no correlation. I didn't expect you to use logic and to be honest when it came to a gun discussion however."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #453 January 11, 2010 This is more than just the UN's desire to talk away people's rights to protect themselves with guns. This is about the UN taking over control of your lives. If people do not want to watch the entire 9 minutes and 14 seconds of the video below, fast forward to the 8 minute and 33 second mark and tell me if you agree or disagree with what the commenter is saying. For those of you who disagree, I guess you do not believe in the US Constitution and you believe the UN has the right to tell you how will be living your life moving forward. WTF ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1g0p8KqOXY Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #454 January 11, 2010 The UN has no business to try and make the US ignore the US Constitution. I think each Country has the right to control their own internal business without UN interference."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #455 January 11, 2010 QuoteBased on the data that criminals have said they avoid places where they think people are armed If crime was prevented, how did they become criminals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #456 January 11, 2010 QuoteIf crime was prevented, how did they become criminals? By committing other NON VIOLENT crimes. They ADMITTED to avoiding places where citizens would be armed. So that prevented crimes in those cases. You can try to continue the word games.... But you have been provided the links to studies done where the actual people who would have done the act admitted why they didn't. No one said that guns would prevent all crimes... We said that criminals avoid people and places they think might be armed.... And we have provided data to back that position."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #457 January 11, 2010 QuoteBy committing other NON VIOLENT crimes. Thanks Ron, for finally admitting crime was not prevented. QuoteYou can try to continue the word games.... You are funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #458 January 11, 2010 QuoteThe UN has no business to try and make the US ignore the US Constitution. If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. Not saying he's about to sign any treaty today or tomorrow, but he is heading towards this and today's youth are already being re-educated in school to believe in this global economic sustainability agenda. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #459 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote By committing other NON VIOLENT crimes. Thanks Ron, for finally admitting crime was not prevented. Quote You can try to continue the word games.... You are funny. HE is funny????? "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #460 January 11, 2010 QuoteHE is funny????? Are you saying he isn't? You aren't very nice to your chum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #461 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote HE is funny????? Are you saying he isn't? You aren't very nice to your chum. Ya thats what i am saying...."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #462 January 11, 2010 QuoteYou lamely play the "culture" card whenever the data don't support your preconceived ideas. And you lamely play the 'comparison' card when your preconceived notions get shot down. I have the data to support MY argument.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #463 January 11, 2010 QuoteNone of those links compares situation in different countries, making it useless for our purpose. I'm sorry - was this thread discussing gun buybacks in EUROPE? I must have missed that part.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #464 January 11, 2010 Quote Thanks Ron, for finally admitting crime was not prevented. Ah, but crime WAS prevented. You think each criminal only commits one crime ever? And if a criminal does not commit a crime based on some reason... that does not mean they will never commit a crime EVER. Your argument is lamer than normal. Like it or not your position has been proven to be wrong. Criminals have stated that they have avoided areas where they thought people would be armed.... therefore, crimes were prevented. Claiming anything else is just you and stupid word play. Besides, most people would rather someone nick their belongings than murder them."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #465 January 11, 2010 QuoteIf Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. I hear what you are saying.... But I don't buy into your conclusion."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #466 January 11, 2010 Interesting discussion. Thanks. The deterrence argument is not the one that I find puzzling; it’s the paradox, as you call it. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #467 January 11, 2010 Quote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #468 January 11, 2010 QuoteQuote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. 60 senators have to approve a treaty? Where would I find some info on this process. You caught me unaware on this one. Or, what is the process called so I can google it Thanks Marc"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #469 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. 60 senators have to approve a treaty? Where would I find some info on this process. You caught me unaware on this one. Or, what is the process called so I can google it Thanks Marc 67 actually (2/3 majority) US Senate website. When in doubt, go straight to the source (or the 1st link in a google search)"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #470 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. 60 senators have to approve a treaty? Where would I find some info on this process. You caught me unaware on this one. Or, what is the process called so I can google it Thanks Marc 67 actually (2/3 majority) US Senate website. When in doubt, go straight to the source (or the 1st link in a google search) Thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #471 January 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. 60 senators have to approve a treaty? Where would I find some info on this process. You caught me unaware on this one. Or, what is the process called so I can google it All treaties have to become the law of the land by being approved or ratified by the US Senate. It's Article II, section 2 of the Constitution. It also means that any international treaty, law, convention, or agreement to which the US is a State party is also the law of the land in the US. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #472 January 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote If Obama signs the UN's Agenda 21 Treaty, there will no longer be a US Constitution. 60 Senators would also have to approve it. Something I'd consider rather unlikely. 60 senators have to approve a treaty? Where would I find some info on this process. You caught me unaware on this one. Or, what is the process called so I can google it All treaties have to become the law of the land by being approved or ratified by the US Senate. It's Article II, section 2 of the Constitution. It also means that any international treaty, law, convention, or agreement to which the US is a State party is also the law of the land in the US. /Marg Thanks to you as well"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #473 January 12, 2010 Quote I'm sorry - was this thread discussing gun buybacks in EUROPE? I must have missed that part. You are not even funny.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #474 January 14, 2010 Quote...position has been proven to be wrong. Criminals have stated ... I am very happy you are not a judge since you take the statement of criminals as proof. (Your understanding of proof is also seriously flawed, which makes this discussion useless) I'll now let you get in the last word and turn my back to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #475 January 14, 2010 QuoteI am very happy you are not a judge since you take the statement of criminals as proof. And I am happy you are not a judge since you don't seem to take a statement from the actual party as valid. Quote (Your understanding of proof is also seriously flawed, which makes this discussion useless) Your understanding of facts seems to be lacking. But I expect this from you..... you are unable to be intellectually honest when you know it will not support your emotional positions. QuoteI'll now let you get in the last word and turn my back to you. Oh if you only meant that....."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
