Amazon 7 #76 January 2, 2010 Uh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? Or giving them to some martyr wannabe... so he can get his virgins. If one goes off in Telaviv I hope that the Israelis wipe every last Arab capital off the face of the planet.. War is war.. and Israel has shown undu restraint..... your peace loving muslims certainly have not and if they get a nuke or two they will not. Hezbollah and Hamas and their masters in Iran... have declared an unending war... with the destruction of the state of Israel as thier goal. Those of you in the Chamberlain peace in our time at all costs... dont have a fucking clue who the enemy is, just like Chamberlain.... in the 1930's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #77 January 2, 2010 Quote Uh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? Or giving them to some martyr wannabe... so he can get his virgins. If one goes off in Telaviv I hope that the Israelis wipe every last Arab capital off the face of the planet.. War is war.. and Israel has shown undu restraint..... your peace loving muslims certainly have not and if they get a nuke or two they will not. Hezbollah and Hamas and their masters in Iran... have declared an unending war... with the destruction of the state of Israel as thier goal. Those of you in the Chamberlain peace in our time at all costs... dont have a fucking clue who the enemy is, just like Chamberlain.... in the 1930's. why would iran nuke israel - israel would just nuke them back - duh (pakistan haven't nuked india and russia never nuked the us - why is that)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #78 January 2, 2010 Quote Quote Uh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? Or giving them to some martyr wannabe... so he can get his virgins. If one goes off in Telaviv I hope that the Israelis wipe every last Arab capital off the face of the planet.. War is war.. and Israel has shown undu restraint..... your peace loving muslims certainly have not and if they get a nuke or two they will not. Hezbollah and Hamas and their masters in Iran... have declared an unending war... with the destruction of the state of Israel as thier goal. Those of you in the Chamberlain peace in our time at all costs... dont have a fucking clue who the enemy is, just like Chamberlain.... in the 1930's. why would iran nuke israel - israel would just nuke them back - duh (pakistan haven't nuked india and russia never nuked the us - why is that) Probably because of fear of retribution.... Most Pakistani's and Russians are not in such a rush to get their 72 virgins. Iran on the other hand has fostered a cult of martyrdom within its ranks and those whom it supports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #79 January 3, 2010 Quote Quote Uh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? Or giving them to some martyr wannabe... so he can get his virgins. If one goes off in Telaviv I hope that the Israelis wipe every last Arab capital off the face of the planet.. War is war.. and Israel has shown undu restraint..... your peace loving muslims certainly have not and if they get a nuke or two they will not. Hezbollah and Hamas and their masters in Iran... have declared an unending war... with the destruction of the state of Israel as thier goal. Those of you in the Chamberlain peace in our time at all costs... dont have a fucking clue who the enemy is, just like Chamberlain.... in the 1930's. why would iran nuke israel - israel would just nuke them back - duh (pakistan haven't nuked india and russia never nuked the us - why is that) MAD Something Iran, to my knowledge has never conceded in their rhetoric against Israel. However, I wonder if Iran would be ready for such reciprocation as well as fallout from such an attack, affecting not only Iran, but Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Depending on weather patterns, possibly Egypt, Sudan, Yemen and Oman...not to mention Gaza and the West Bank.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #80 January 3, 2010 Quote MAD Something Iran, to my knowledge has never conceded in their rhetoric against Israel. However, I wonder if Iran would be ready for such reciprocation as well as fallout from such an attack, affecting not only Iran, but Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Depending on weather patterns, possibly Egypt, Sudan, Yemen and Oman...not to mention Gaza and the West Bank. There's a few experts who think that Iran having nukes would be a good (or at least not all bad) thing because of this. Sort of a "with great power comes great responsibility" thing. They have to know that the Israelis will turn Tehran, along with a few other cities into glass parking lots if Tel Aviv or Jerusalem get it. There's a big difference between having a proxy army like Hamas or Hezb' stir up shit and using a nuke. The question is whether or not their faith in Allah will overcome this reasoning."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #81 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuote If JCD isn't going to hold the attackers accountable for their own actions, that only leaves you Jews the option to kill yourselves and end the conflict once and for all. As usual, you've mischaracterized my position. Is your reading comprehension really that deficient? It's no mischaracterization. you said that if the Israelis can have peace if they stop 'making' the other side attack them. History has shown quite clearly that the only action that will placate the Arab side is ceasing to be there (anywhere in the Holy Land). Sure, some Arabs will settle for peace, and then the others will promptly kill them for it. You continue this bullshit that Israel started it, when we see a history of non stop attacks on it by their neighbors, as well as a would be nuclear power advocating their complete anniliation. Only in your twisted world are they the bad guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #82 January 3, 2010 QuoteHow come you are not whining about the arabs surrounding Israel that have not taken in the Palestinians. You do realize that this is a thread about an article on Israel, right? You'll notice that I also haven't addressed the public option in healthcare reform in this thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #83 January 3, 2010 QuoteUh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? MAD works. There is no reason to believe that Iranian leaders are any less likely to act rationally than the leaders of Israel.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #84 January 3, 2010 QuoteIt's no mischaracterization. Yes, it was, and you continued that mischaracterization with post #81 in this thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #85 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteUh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? MAD works. There is no reason to believe that Iranian leaders are any less likely to act rationally than the leaders of Israel. Have you actually listened to the nutjob that is passing as a leader in Teheran??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #86 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteUh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? MAD works. There is no reason to believe that Iranian leaders are any less likely to act rationally than the leaders of Israel. Have you actually listened to the nutjob that is passing as a leader in Teheran??? You are aware that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran, right?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #87 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteUh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? MAD works. There is no reason to believe that Iranian leaders are any less likely to act rationally than the leaders of Israel. MAD works when there is a credible counterstrike ability. Israel is such a small country that it may be feasible to wipe it out entirely in one strike, something that could never be done against the US, USSR, or China. Israel does have enough nukes (200-1000+) to make it hard to feel confident. OTOH, Iran's nuclear force when it happens may be small enough to encourage an Israeli first strike, presuming they wait until Iran has the bomb before doing so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #88 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteUh they have had them for 40 years at least..... how long do you think your buddies in Teheran would restrain themselves from using one on Telaviv should they get one??? MAD works. There is no reason to believe that Iranian leaders are any less likely to act rationally than the leaders of Israel. Have you actually listened to the nutjob that is passing as a leader in Teheran??? You are aware that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran, right? You are aware that the whole lot of their leadership are fundie nutjobs right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #89 January 3, 2010 QuoteMAD works when there is a credible counterstrike ability. Israel is such a small country that it may be feasible to wipe it out entirely in one strike, something that could never be done against the US, USSR, or China. True. However, Israel has allies whose geographic locations (i.e., not near Iran) and nuclear arsenals makes a nuclear counter-strike on Iran a credible threat.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #90 January 3, 2010 QuoteYou are aware that the whole lot of their leadership are fundie nutjobs right? This sounds like policy set by a fundamentalist nut job, doesn't it?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #91 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou are aware that the whole lot of their leadership are fundie nutjobs right? This sounds like policy set by a fundamentalist nut job, doesn't it? No more like this... http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1063353.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #92 January 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote You are aware that the whole lot of their leadership are fundie nutjobs right? This sounds like policy set by a fundamentalist nut job, doesn't it? No more like this... http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1063353.html I thought we established that Ahmadinejad wasn't the leader of Iran. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #93 January 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote You are aware that the whole lot of their leadership are fundie nutjobs right? This sounds like policy set by a fundamentalist nut job, doesn't it? No more like this... http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1063353.html I thought we established that Ahmadinejad wasn't the leader of Iran. Sure has a lot of Iranian protesters fooled then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argyle 0 #94 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteAre you really this nieve??? If by "nieve," you mean "able to form an objective opinion," then, yes. I'm that "nieve." QuoteHamas and Hezbollah and the masters in Teheran.. are not interested in any kind of negotiation. It's Israel that hasn't upheld their end of the 2008 truce agreement. It sounds like Israel are the ones who aren't willing to negotiate in good faith. You've repeatedly said that a big issue is that Israel did not hold up their part of the 2008 truce. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire is a pretty good description of the issues involved in that truce. If this sounds like Israel is the one who would not negotiate, then, no, you're not able to form an objective opinion. Also, note that we are talking about Hamas firing thousands of rockets, not just an occasional pain in the ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #95 January 3, 2010 QuoteQuote MAD Something Iran, to my knowledge has never conceded in their rhetoric against Israel. However, I wonder if Iran would be ready for such reciprocation as well as fallout from such an attack, affecting not only Iran, but Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Depending on weather patterns, possibly Egypt, Sudan, Yemen and Oman...not to mention Gaza and the West Bank. There's a few experts who think that Iran having nukes would be a good (or at least not all bad) thing because of this. Sort of a "with great power comes great responsibility" thing. They have to know that the Israelis will turn Tehran, along with a few other cities into glass parking lots if Tel Aviv or Jerusalem get it. There's a big difference between having a proxy army like Hamas or Hezb' stir up shit and using a nuke. The question is whether or not their faith in Allah will overcome this reasoning. I would love to see a reference to an "expert" that sees Iran having a nuke as "not all bad". One need only look at how Iran's government tramples its own people to use as an indicator of how they might test Israel as a nuclear power. Their faith in Allah hasn't stopped them from shooting women in the streets. Thanks for playing though.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #96 January 3, 2010 Quotean Israeli first strike, like when they terrorised hundreds of thousands of civilians out of their own homes? (and their terrorist cells bombed the british soldiers just there to do their job)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #97 January 3, 2010 I can't find a reference. It was something I heard on NPR (probably last summer). Also, I'm not sure I agree with it. BUT - There's a big difference between shooting a few (or a few dozen or a few hundred or even a few thousand) citizens in the street over the course of several months and the instantaneous extermination of a couple million with a nuke. Even testing a nuke is a huge line to cross. They have to know that it puts them in the crosshairs. They should know that fissle material has a "fingerprint" of contaminants that would trace any of their bombs back to them with little difficulty. So the question goes back to whether or not they are rational enough to know (or care) that any use of a nuke would result in retaliation. Or if they believe that if they can destroy Israel's retaliatory capabilities that others will retaliate. I don't know if the US would retaliate for Israel, but I tend to believe so. I think they believe so too. So it goes back (again) to how rational they are and if they believe that Allah would protect them from retaliation."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #98 January 4, 2010 I have to say I admire Darius's discipline in staying out of this for 97 posts and counting. Then again, maybe he's comatose, or off spelunking in Madagascar, or in a Turkish prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #99 January 4, 2010 I just hope he's not protesting against the government in Iran... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #100 January 4, 2010 QuoteOne of the myths among whites in South Africa was that "blacks want to throw us into the sea." Many of apartheid's practices were formally based on security, mostly those involving restrictions on movement. Thus, for example, at a fairly early stage, black citizens needed permits to move around the country. During the final years of apartheid, when the blacks' struggle intensified as did terrorism, its practices became more severe. To avoid the rude word apartheid, Beinisch pulled out the well-known argument that apartheid is "a policy of segregation and discrimination based on race and ethnicity, which is based on a series of discriminatory practices designed to achieve the superiority of a certain race and oppress those of other races." Indeed, systematic segregation (apartheid) and discrimination in South Africa were meant to preserve the supremacy of one race over others. In Israel, on the other hand, institutional discrimination is meant to preserve the supremacy of a group of Jewish settlers over Palestinian Arabs. As far as discriminatory practices are concerned, it's hard to find differences between white rule in South Africa and Israeli rule in the territories; for example, separate areas and separate laws for Jews and Palestinians. Last Wednesday, Israeli policemen blocked the main road linking Nablus and Tul Karm. Dozens of taxis with Palestinian workers on their way home from another day on the job in the settlements were told to park on the side of the road. Cars with yellow license plates passed by. There was no roadblock for security inspections; it was just the memorial ceremony for Rabbi Meir Hai. Just as long as they do not say that there is apartheid. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1139724.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
