Why are people not more angry at Wall Street?

[Darius11 12]

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OK. So now you're saying that you don't care about the bonuses

I am saying there is a lot wrong, but the bonuses is much like a ginat fuck you.

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it's the effect they had on the economy. That seems to imply that you expect Wall Street to 'take care' of you to some degree, that your happiness is related to how good a job they do.

Have no clue where you got that one, but i will try again.

Me personly would love it if they left me alone. I don;t want or need any one to pay my way never have and if i ever do that will be the day i leave this planet.

I belive there was a huge injustice (injustice the people who comited the crime, did the deed, were reponcible did not pay for their actions) and other were asked to pay the price.

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I understand that sort of thinking, but I disagree with it. "Wall Street" is just a bunch of people doing their jobs. Some do them well, some do them poorly. Some are smart, some are stupid. I've made a lot of money off them over the years, which is a good thing for me. But I don't credit that to someone helping me out, I credit that to me for knowing what to invest in (and what not to invest in.) Likewise, when I lost a lot of money over the past year, I didn't think they were screwing me - I thought that I had foolishly remained in a market that showed all the signs of heading downwards. (I did pull a bunch out, but not nearly enough as it turned out.)

I think that’s where the root of our disagreement is at. I don’t think it was just people doing their jobs. I believe they set up systems to misrepresent the value of the products they offered so they could make more money. To me that’s a white-collar crime at minimum. Their greed is what led us down this path. Was their wrong regulation? IMO Yes but it was their greed that lead to the TARP bail out that they received with no strings attached. That’s another time that i was surprised that people were not screaming “are you fucking kidding me?”

I have no issue with people making money, I like making money. However I do have an issue when companies misrepresent their products so they can show more value, I have a problem when companies decides to take risks any high or low that I might have to end up paying for them. That we all pay the price and they not only get to keep their jobs that they have failed at they get to get a bonus that they could not get if we had let them fail.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,991]

> I don’t think it was just people doing their jobs. I believe they set up
>systems to misrepresent the value of the products they offered so they
>could make more money.

I agree - but often that IS their job. Ad agencies don't make money by being honest about their client's shortcomings. No skydiving school ever made money by emphasizing the number of fatalities they've had there. Mortgage providers don't keep their jobs by telling people that other companies with higher rates are actually a better choice for them.

I definitely agree that if they lie about them, then go after them for fraud. But selling something to someone by emphasizing the good and downplaying the bad - well, that's sort of the definition of American salesmanship.

> Their greed is what led us down this path.

Greed is what keeps our economy going. We wouldn't have an economy without it.

>However I do have an issue when companies misrepresent their products
>so they can show more value.

Most companies do just that. Heck, look at any TV commercial.

>I have a problem when companies decides to take risks any high or low
>that I might have to end up paying for them.

I agree there. But that seems to be an argument for MORE public assistance. After all, if lots of companies are really allowed to fail, the short term likely result is you being out of a job. That, in a very direct way, is "paying" for their errors.

Now, there are a lot of good arguments for not bailing out companies. But to make them you have to accept _more_ pain in the short term. As long as you're willing to do that, then that might be a good position to take.

[rushmc 23]

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From Heritage

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Nice IMPARTIAL source there, Rush. Maybe I'll start quoting Huffington at you in exchange.

It's an OPINION piece.

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So your “facts” as you like to call them may be technically be rooted in some truth, ...

Indeed they are. CRA loans have a low default rate and cannot be blamed for the meltdown. Wall Street greed caused the meltdown. Unpalatable as that may be to Heritage and to you, that IS the way it is.

Because YOU say so?????

Now THAT is damned funny

You already admitted the truth of my claim.



www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/11/defending_cra.html

seekingalpha.com/article/71775-larry-kudlow-is-dead-wrong-cra-didn-t-start-the-meltdown

“CRA was not the cause of the crisis,” John Dugan, Comptroller of the Currency (a Bush appointee).

NO one thing is the cause sir. I posted something that is a part and was the trigger.

That is my opinion. they are others including yours but I sure as hell aint takeing your word on it.

and by the way, Heritage is and has become one of the most respected think tanks in Washington because of thier less than biased research.

And the opinion piece, as with many, references those pieces of info they use to for said opinion.

CRA was and IS a major part of this mess. NOT the only part.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

I'm sure you know better than the Comptroller of the Currency (a Bush appointee, by the way).

You are not entitled to your own facts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Wow I guess all the people who fought in WWII the revolutionary war were not True Americans, So your saying that all true Americans are pacifists?

I guess you missed that event on December 7th, 1941? That wasn't different viewpoints. That was killing 3000 Americans. Lexington also comes to mind, but mind you the Revolutionary War predates the United States of America and the Constitution, and even the short lived Confederation.

OTOH, we do allow Nazis to march in this country. If all they do is hate and pass out poorly xeroxed literature with pictures of ape skulls on it, we leave them alone.

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It’s kind of odd that you’re using me and the
president of the Iran.

You claimed I generalized based on the actions of a single person. I merely point out that this is false.

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Its painful that you don’t get it it truly is. God forbid you learn something that does not agree with your foundation of beliefs, Then just think you might have to think and actually form new ideas. Way too hard just keep spewing the same irrational illogical bull shit.

God forbid you accept that a recession is a collective event that few enjoy. Ranting and suggesting capital punishment to a select few is idiotic. It would probably be vaguely more intelligent if you actually cited examples, rather than saying 'they all cheated us and didn't deserve their money.' Surely you must admit that some of them earned their bonuses? Or are you really that clueless of what the industry is and how it works?

[rushmc 23]

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I'm sure you know better than the Comptroller of the Currency (a Bush appointee, by the way).

You are not entitled to your own facts.

I posted where I get some of my facts


No better, no worse than yours me thinks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,027]

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I'm sure you know better than the Comptroller of the Currency (a Bush appointee, by the way).

You are not entitled to your own facts.

I posted where I get some of my facts


No better, no worse than yours me thinks

You thinks? We would never know by reading your posts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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I'm sure you know better than the Comptroller of the Currency (a Bush appointee, by the way).

You are not entitled to your own facts.

I posted where I get some of my facts


No better, no worse than yours me thinks

You thinks? We would never know by reading your posts.

Slick little pa

Getting desperate???

I have to admit. You are an expert at playing the ass

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

Your one warning. Cut it out.

[kallend 2,027]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

So you dont consider this a PA

from kallend

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You thinks? We would never know by reading your posts.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>So you dont consider this a PA

No. Saying "we can't figure out your posts" is not a PA. Saying "you're being an ass" is.

[rushmc 23]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

NO act of congress. Never said that never will.

However, just like the wage controls (the Carter years) things came into play that the gov never intended but forced the private sector to adapt

Stock option bonuses, paid health care and other ways to compensate good people all came about because of fucked up gov interventions.

So, fast forward my friend.

Congress forces lenders to lower the standard for lending. this exposed them to more risk.. That was not acceptable to some inventive bankers so walla!!!! new tools were born to mitigate risk. Those tools are part of the problem I give you but, they did not come about because they were not regulated, they came about BECAUSE of regulations.

So ya sir, me does think!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>So you dont consider this a PA

No. Saying "we can't figure out your posts" is not a PA. Saying "you're being an ass" is.

You read it way different than I do.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

NO act of congress. Never said that never will.

However, just like the wage controls things came into play that the gov never intended but forced the private sector to adapt

Stock option bonuses, paid health care and other ways to compensate good people all came about because of fucked up gov interventions.

So, fast forward my friend.

Congress forces lenders to lower the standard for lending. this exposed them to more risk.. That was not acceptable to some inventive bankers so walla!!!! new tools were born to mitigate risk. Those tools are part of the problem I give you but, they did not come about because they were not regulated, they came about BECAUSE of regulations.

So ya sir, me does think!!!

What a load of RUBBISH.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

NO act of congress. Never said that never will.

However, just like the wage controls things came into play that the gov never intended but forced the private sector to adapt

Stock option bonuses, paid health care and other ways to compensate good people all came about because of fucked up gov interventions.

So, fast forward my friend.

Congress forces lenders to lower the standard for lending. this exposed them to more risk.. That was not acceptable to some inventive bankers so walla!!!! new tools were born to mitigate risk. Those tools are part of the problem I give you but, they did not come about because they were not regulated, they came about BECAUSE of regulations.

So ya sir, me does think!!!

What a load of RUBBISH.

Of course it is a load of rubbish to you. It does not fit your world view

You may want to do a little research my friend. You may be surprised

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

NO act of congress. Never said that never will.

However, just like the wage controls things came into play that the gov never intended but forced the private sector to adapt

Stock option bonuses, paid health care and other ways to compensate good people all came about because of fucked up gov interventions.

So, fast forward my friend.

Congress forces lenders to lower the standard for lending. this exposed them to more risk.. That was not acceptable to some inventive bankers so walla!!!! new tools were born to mitigate risk. Those tools are part of the problem I give you but, they did not come about because they were not regulated, they came about BECAUSE of regulations.

So ya sir, me does think!!!

What a load of RUBBISH.

Of course it is a load of rubbish to you. It does not fit your world view

Nor does it fit the facts, not that facts seem to bother you.

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You may want to do a little research my friend. You may be surprised

Irony score 10/10

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

NO act of congress. Never said that never will.

However, just like the wage controls things came into play that the gov never intended but forced the private sector to adapt

Stock option bonuses, paid health care and other ways to compensate good people all came about because of fucked up gov interventions.

So, fast forward my friend.

Congress forces lenders to lower the standard for lending. this exposed them to more risk.. That was not acceptable to some inventive bankers so walla!!!! new tools were born to mitigate risk. Those tools are part of the problem I give you but, they did not come about because they were not regulated, they came about BECAUSE of regulations.

So ya sir, me does think!!!

What a load of RUBBISH.

Of course it is a load of rubbish to you. It does not fit your world view

Nor does it fit the facts, not that facts seem to bother you.

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You may want to do a little research my friend. You may be surprised

Irony score 10/10

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

Which act of Congress forced people to sign loans they couldn't afford?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,027]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

Which act of Congress forced people to sign loans they couldn't afford?

Non sequitur.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

Which act of Congress forced people to sign loans they couldn't afford?

Non sequitur.

Really?

wow

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

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Wall Street did it's part coming up with insane lending practices that were doomed to fail and the general public did their part not educating themselves on what they were getting into

agree with most of that, however, it wasn't wall street that came up with those 'insane lending practices' look to washington for that (dome like building - the one with the stripes and lightning bolts)

Really? Washington came up with credit default swaps? Which act of Congress was that?

Feigning ignorance???



Maybe not..........

Tell us, Marc, which act of Congress created credit default swaps?

While you're about it, tell us which act of Congress forced Moody's and S&P to give AAA ratings to junk mortgage backed securities? Which act of Congress forced investment banks to buy the junk securities?

Which act of Congress forced people to sign loans they couldn't afford?

Non sequitur.

Really?

wow

Yes. Joe Blow from Podunk, IA couldn't bring down the economy no matter how silly his loan app. The broker who approved his loan didn't have to, and was only enabled by the greedy investment strategies of the Wall St "experts". The CEO of AIG, OTOH, was only prevented from bringing down the economy by bailout that you and I paid for.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.