Why are people not more angry at Wall Street?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Quote

Quote

and it is none of our business how they run the business or pay their people unles they are using gov money.

They are. Goverment money which is our money.

As I understand it, the companies issuing the cash to execs did not take any bail out or paid it back.

Ok, how much profit would Goldman Sachs have made if AIG hadn't paid out (all gov't money) on the insurance policies on the mortgage backed securities?

That was government money that hasn't been paid back.

I would like to have seen 90-95% tax on all net profits by any company that recieved AIG money.

But that isn't going to happen.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Darius11 12]

I am not mad at a pitcher who makes 8 billion dollars if someone decides to pay for them. Thats their business. Honestly how many times must a person say something till you guys get it stop the ASSuming. I don't give a flying FUCK if your rich, what i do care about is if you took it from me without asking, If you lied and stool it, if you took risks that effected me and others who had no say in the matter.

So the anger is at the government which is obviously controlled by whoever holds more money, however i can not excuse people who allowed their greed to sink us all. Believe it or not you should be held responsible for your actions when your actions effect others. So to excuse their behavior just because the government was stupid, bribed, corrupt pick which ever ones you choose is retarded. Believe it or not and i know this may surprise you their are people who will not do anything for money. Their are people who can actually feel bad when they do something that harms others even if they don't get caught. ( i feel like Kayle talking to Cartmen)


When your job is finance and your doing things no one knows about that end up sinking the economy, and you don't pay for it others do there is something wrong with that. Simple as that. You can try your spins and bull shit all you like. It does not change the fact that the average person was fucked, small business were fucked, and the ones responsible did not pay for it.

And i am wondering why there is not more anger as in my opinion a lot more anger is justified.

What these greedy fucks did and still are doing is treason, and people who commit treason should be executed.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kallend 2,027]

Many of the fat cats raking in millions were (a) directly responsible for the financial meltdown that has affected all of us, including you and me, (b) would have been failed execs of bankrupt companies had it not been for OUR tax dollars propping up their companies, and (c) did sweet FA to generate the current profits, which simply required arbitrage that almost anyone with an IQ above 85 could have managed using cheap government (taxpayers') money currently available.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I am not mad at a pitcher who makes 8 billion dollars if someone decides to pay for them. Thats their business.

Baseball stadiums are frequently paid for with municipal bonds by cities fearful that the team will move away. Even privately financed ballparks like the Giants one is still subsidized by infrastructure (roads, police, etc). So if you think as a taxpayer you have a right to be outraged at Wall Street, you have the same right to bitch at ball players.

Quote

When your job is finance and your doing things no one knows about that end up sinking the economy, and you don't pay for it others do there is something wrong with that. Simple as that. You can try your spins and bull shit all you like. It does not change the fact that the average person was fucked, small business were fucked, and the ones responsible did not pay for it.

Sorry, this mess was a team effort. Who created the housing bubble? Not WS. It was the Feds for making money cheap, and home buyers who took advantage of it and bought over their means. Or the ones that kept using their home equity to fund new SUVs and vacations and other credit card spending. WS over leveraged on it and exacerbated it. However, only a small portion of WS dealt in these matters. Why shouldn't a commodities trader that made serious coin of late not get a bonus?

Quote

What these greedy fucks did and still are doing is treason, and people who commit treason should be executed.

That's the Iranian in you talking. Death penalty for incompetence?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

and it is none of our business how they run the business or pay their people unles they are using gov money.

They are. Goverment money which is our money.

As I understand it, the companies issuing the cash to execs did not take any bail out or paid it back.

Ok, how much profit would Goldman Sachs have made if AIG hadn't paid out (all gov't money) on the insurance policies on the mortgage backed securities?

That was government money that hasn't been paid back.

I would like to have seen 90-95% tax on all net profits by any company that recieved AIG money.

But that isn't going to happen.

So, they were offered money. They paid it back, they made very good money with the loaned dollars and pay their execs good because they performed well, and now you want to punish them for doing what the gov loaned them the money for in the first place.

You voted for Obama didnt you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Many of the fat cats raking in millions were (a) directly responsible for the financial meltdown that has affected all of us, including you and me, (b) would have been failed execs of bankrupt companies had it not been for OUR tax dollars propping up their companies, and (c) did sweet FA to generate the current profits, which simply required arbitrage that almost anyone with an IQ above 85 could have managed using cheap government (taxpayers') money currently available.

IMO you are only in a small way even near correct. Not withstanding your all green with envy response. You chose to give those in the gov that created the rules which made the mess in the first place a pass.

Get over it teach. Bitch all you want. They are doing nothing illegal. It may or may not be right depending on who you talk to but not illegal

get over it

And until you are will to look at Dodd and Schumer et al your bitching ring very hollow

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

and it is none of our business how they run the business or pay their people unles they are using gov money.

They are. Goverment money which is our money.

As I understand it, the companies issuing the cash to execs did not take any bail out or paid it back.

Ok, how much profit would Goldman Sachs have made if AIG hadn't paid out (all gov't money) on the insurance policies on the mortgage backed securities?

That was government money that hasn't been paid back.

I would like to have seen 90-95% tax on all net profits by any company that recieved AIG money.

But that isn't going to happen.

So, they were offered money. They paid it back, they made very good money with the loaned dollars and pay their execs good because they performed well, and now you want to punish them for doing what the gov loaned them the money for in the first place.

You voted for Obama didnt you

No I didn't vote for Obama.

And you missed my point.

AIG was bailed out with taxpayer dollars. That money has not been (and probably won't be) paid back.

That money was used to pay out insurance policies that had been taken out on the "credit default swap securities".

All throughout the banking system.

AIG was the "keystone" that would have taken down the economy if it had failed and been unable to pay out on these policies (all over the world, not just the US) that were hedges on the securities tanking, which they did.

And a lot of these banks would not have made the ridiculous profits they made.

But they made profits.

Because they received payouts on the now worthless investments. Payouts from AIG. Payouts from the taxpayer.

To sum up:
How much profits would Goldman Sachs made if AIG hadn't been bailed out by the government and if all the mortgage backed security insurance policies hadn't covered the losses?

And why is it wrong to expect those who made profits because of a government bailout (even though they didn't get the bailout directly)to pay the government back?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Is it just me, but after hearing about yet another Wall street bank bonus my mind went to red. This is directly the result of our tax money that was given to them, oh that's the same money they pay no interest on but charge me and you 30%.

You should have invested last year; some of us made really nice "bonuses" for themselves. And no, I do not work for Wall Street.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

So, they were offered money. They paid it back, they made very good money with the loaned dollars and pay their execs good because they performed well

One should have tried really hard to lose invested money during last year. Even I, having very little knowledge about investing (and incentive to), made a nice amount just by purchasing some index funds last Feb-Mar. Is it nice? Sure it is. But does it qualify for any kind of bonus? No way.

Quote

You voted for Obama didnt you

Nope.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[tkhayes 348]

people are angry, but they are all working for $10/hour trying to make a living, and they do not have time to march on Washington.

sad but true.

If unemployment hits 25%, then lots of people will have lots of time to riot.....

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

and it is none of our business how they run the business or pay their people unles they are using gov money.

They are. Goverment money which is our money.

As I understand it, the companies issuing the cash to execs did not take any bail out or paid it back.

Ok, how much profit would Goldman Sachs have made if AIG hadn't paid out (all gov't money) on the insurance policies on the mortgage backed securities?

That was government money that hasn't been paid back.

I would like to have seen 90-95% tax on all net profits by any company that recieved AIG money.

But that isn't going to happen.

So, they were offered money. They paid it back, they made very good money with the loaned dollars and pay their execs good because they performed well, and now you want to punish them for doing what the gov loaned them the money for in the first place.

You voted for Obama didnt you

No I didn't vote for Obama.

And you missed my point.

AIG was bailed out with taxpayer dollars. That money has not been (and probably won't be) paid back.

That money was used to pay out insurance policies that had been taken out on the "credit default swap securities".

All throughout the banking system.

AIG was the "keystone" that would have taken down the economy if it had failed and been unable to pay out on these policies (all over the world, not just the US) that were hedges on the securities tanking, which they did.

And a lot of these banks would not have made the ridiculous profits they made.

But they made profits.

Because they received payouts on the now worthless investments. Payouts from AIG. Payouts from the taxpayer.

To sum up:
How much profits would Goldman Sachs made if AIG hadn't been bailed out by the government and if all the mortgage backed security insurance policies hadn't covered the losses?

And why is it wrong to expect those who made profits because of a government bailout (even though they didn't get the bailout directly)to pay the government back?

Because that is not the way it was set up. And to date, we really do not know how it was set up as Giethner kept it secrete.

Oh, and sorry I miss understood your point. My bad

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Because that is not the way it was set up. And to date, we really do not know how it was set up as Giethner kept it secrete.

Oh, and sorry I miss understood your point. My bad

Right. That isn't how it was set up, and it was kept secret.

Probably because if the public knew how much money was going where it went there would have been a revolt.

I understand the need to keep the banking system from collapsing, but I really wish (yeah I know, wish in one hand, shit in the other - see which one fills up first) they had set up a way for those profiting from the AIG bailout to repay the money.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Because that is not the way it was set up. And to date, we really do not know how it was set up as Giethner kept it secrete.

Oh, and sorry I miss understood your point. My bad

Right. That isn't how it was set up, and it was kept secret.

Probably because if the public knew how much money was going where it went there would have been a revolt.

I understand the need to keep the banking system from collapsing, but I really wish (yeah I know, wish in one hand, shit in the other - see which one fills up first) they had set up a way for those profiting from the AIG bailout to repay the money.

A very high percentage of the AIG money went overseas. That much is known. To whom and how much, well, that is more cloudy

I am far from a conspiracy nut but there was too much money when to places we do not yet (and may never) know

Calling out Giethner today is a start

We dont agree on this part, the money should have not been handed out in the first place, by Bush or Obama. The market will take care of it. Painful? Yes but it is necessary. It still will happen IMO. Just a question of when

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yourmomma 0]

"Most of the tools they have developed were because of regulation not inspite of it. "

WTF are you talking about. Credit default's and exotic derivative were created precisely because there were no regulations to enforce malfeasance . Later you admonish kallend because they had done nothing illegal. Which seems to say you accept there was no regulation in place to force culpability.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

The market will take care of it. Painful? Yes but it is necessary. It still will happen IMO. Just a question of when

Not if Uncle Sugar bails them out yet again.

With no real consequence for failure, expect larger and larger risks.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[GQ_jumper 4]

However i do think you shoukld pay for the risk you take and not others. Simple as that.

Quote

You make a very valid point, but what about the other side of the coin? Where is all the outrage towards the people to we borrowing money from these banks without the capacity to repay it. Where is all the hatred towards the people who made 30K a years and decided to buy a home worth 250K? There are two sides to this story, the greedy bankers, and the greedy consumers who put little to no effort into anything and demand the same posh lifestyle as those who earn far more than them. Maybe if people could accept their income brackets or better yet put forth the effort to raise their income instead of borrowing it we wouldn't be in this mess.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[Darius11 12]

Quote

That's the Iranian in you talking. Death penalty for incompetence?

and the award for the most ignorant remark goes too

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

You make a very valid point, but what about the other side of the coin? Where is all the outrage towards the people to we borrowing money from these banks without the capacity to repay it. Where is all the hatred towards the people who made 30K a years and decided to buy a home worth 250K?

I was not one of them. We were approved for a house up too 350K and more if needed. We could not find one house for under 300K thats was not a shithole and had set a much lower level for our selves. I couldn't understand how we were pre approved for so much money. It was obvious to us that if one thing went wrong we were fucked. So we didn't buy a house. We simply couldn't.

I am not happy at any one who fucked us, however i do expect the average person to know much less then the guys who design the system.

I am not really even asking people who is to blam or how much blame is for who. I am just wondering why more people are not pissed off. I am, really surprised.
Its like a giant fuck you to the people.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Is it just me, but after hearing about yet another Wall street bank bonus my mind went to red. This is directly the result of our tax money that was given to them, oh that's the same money they pay no interest on but charge me and you 30%.

Where are the mobs of people? I surprised that there is not thousands of people on wall street with their guns and signs that say " take the bonus we will take your lives".


Maybe i am more violent then most but i am blown away that we are just grabbing our ankles and saying thank you cum again.

For those that are still holding taxpayer money (via TARP or US Govt Shareholder Stake, etc), I have a problem only to the extent that it could be permitted to continue past previous contractual obligations, and then, only if the government had converted those loans to a significant equity stake (like AIG or Citi). Short of that, payroll is not what caused this problem. For those institutions that paid the money back, and aren't under the boot, they can pay whenever, to whomever, for whatever as far as I'm concerned.

Beyond that, the government interfering with legal contracts is plain unconstitutional. It's also proof that the government running businesses is ineffective at best, disastrous at most, and catastrophic at worst. This TARP sh*t was nothing more than a smoke screen to launder money to various institutions to help with broad balance sheets. AIG itself has funneled billions to overseas concerns to that end, all while treasury and the fed pump trillions into the system, and monetize the debt in the process. Wall Street was suffering a symptom of the problem, and if you can't see where the problem originated...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 2,991]

>I am just wondering why more people are not pissed off. I am, really
>surprised. Its like a giant fuck you to the people.

If someone gets really get pissed off by this, they're going to spend their entire lives really pissed off - because there are much, much worse things in the world than someone who gets a big bonus. Is it worth it?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

That's the Iranian in you talking. Death penalty for incompetence?

and the award for the most ignorant remark goes too

No, ignorant is advocating executing bad businessmen. Actually, completely fucking stupid. No American would suggest it.

Has anyone even been charged yet with a crime?

Like I said, your beef is with Congress, the White House, and the Treasury, and the Federal Reserve. Since you won't hold anyone else accountable.

[GQ_jumper 4]

am not really even asking people who is to blam or how much blame is for who. I am just wondering why more people are not pissed off. I am, really surprised.

Quote

I'm very pissed off over the entire situation I just don't take it out on the banks entirely. There was de-regulation going on for years before this happened which allowed the situation to develop. The government almost forced the banks t lower lending standards during the 90's because politicians saw it as political gold to put every American in a home(I'm not pointing a finger at any one politician or president in particular it was a cumulative effort by many). If we really want to dig deep we can trace this back a few decades to when politicians first started saying every American deserved a home a two cars. And like I've mentioned before, the people of this country are greedy and carry themselves with an undeserved sense of entitlement. People think things should come easy and that home worth 300K isn't something that should be out of reach.

You're right that banks held a huge piece of this pie, but they were only playing by the rules which had been distorted by Washington to work in their favor. And when it comes to bonuses if a company has paid back its funds I could care less who they give bonuses too. If people don't like it they should take their business and investments elsewhere.

How can we really be pissed off at just the banks for taking government money when we have things like the GM bailout where the pres. gave the dirtbag union workers whatever they wanted and forced the bond holders who had a "contract" with GM for their money take the hit? Should we tax Ford to pay for GM's money? Or what about the people who had their mortgages bought by the government and were given a lower rate and a lower principle at no cost to them?

The whole system went to crap and everyone is holding an equal part of the blame, best thing to do is focus on fixing it and seeing to it that it doesn't happen again.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[rushmc 23]

Quote

"Most of the tools they have developed were because of regulation not inspite of it. "

WTF are you talking about. Credit default's and exotic derivative were created precisely because there were no regulations to enforce malfeasance . Later you admonish kallend because they had done nothing illegal. Which seems to say you accept there was no regulation in place to force culpability.

Not that is one hell of a spin on my post

You need to learn a little more about Freddi and and Fannie and the role programs Congress put into to place to force lending to people who the banks knew most lilely would not pay the loans back. then look at the reponses the banks took to try and relieve some of the risk forced on them by congressional lending requirments

Not as simple as the left would like it to be. and with the blame more in their court than anywhere else of course they need to quickly throw the blame elsewhere and do a quick re-write of some of the history

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

The market will take care of it. Painful? Yes but it is necessary. It still will happen IMO. Just a question of when

Not if Uncle Sugar bails them out yet again.

With no real consequence for failure, expect larger and larger risks.

Exactly. but he tools the banks developed that ultimatly became a part of the mess didnt come about just because they wanted to do this shit (some may have however once it started) it was an attempt to reduce risk cause by regulation.

So many want to say it was because of no regulation that they did this.
Techicially? yes but that view spins the context 180 degrees as to the cause and reasons

But back to your post, yes, if you are now big enough why not take the risk as big brother will say you are too big to fail. These bail outs need to be stopped

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mr2mk1g 10]

Same thing's happening in the UK. The problem is you have to speculate to accumulate.

The banks were bailed out with loans from the public purse. This means tax payers, which means they effectively owe ME money. They can only repay ME my money if they make enough profits to buy back the share stock the govt has in their banks. The best way to make this profit is to attract the most skilled people and reward them for success. They do this by paying them money - more than the competitors.

If they don't pay big, they can't attract the best skills and they won't make as much money as fast, which means the can't pay ME back.

As much as it sucks to see people who caused the problem in the first place being paid massive bonuses with MY money... as a defacto shareholder I do at least have to grudgingly accept that it's a good way of getting into a postion where they can pay ME back sooner rather than later.