Jesus Rifles

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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To me this issue is not one of freedom of speech. It is about shooting ourselves in the foot for no good reason. The baddies want people to believe that we are on a Christian Crusade in their homelands. We all know we are not, but Mohammed who just signed up to join the ANA might not be convinced. Now he gets handed a scope that his buddy tells him is inscribed with a Christian symbol. It is not unreasonable for him to now question the motives of his trainers and the US as a whole.

That statement would seem to be logical given the explanation and circumstances. However, having walked up and down the mountains of Afghanistan with members of the ANA and gotten to know individuals in the ANA, most would not mind or care. A good deal of the soldiers in the ANA have had to watch as their family members were either tortured or killed by the taliban and that serves as their impetus to participate in the ANA. One of the the oldest and simplest reasons that has motivated people in some cases, this being one of them, revenge/payback/an eye for an eye is the predominate reason you will hear from those in the ANA. They want payback for their personal losses and they want a better way of life for their families. So I say that your supposition is moot as it contradicts what I know to be the ground truth. The average ANA soldier would be ecstatic to have a weapon sight that better enabled him to engage and defeat his enemy. Besides, if we followed your logic, that would mean they would be opposed to using AK-47s because it's a Russian weapon and we all know thats not the case.


I don't care what anyone calls it. Call it a Holy war, thats what it is if you break it down to the basic fundamentals and thats the way the radical Islamic fundamentalists view it. They want to kill everyone who does not think the way they do or those who do not agree with their belief system. For me, I don't care what you want to call it, they want to kill me and the way of life that I and those like me live. If more people could recognize and accept this truth they would realize that we are indeed in a war of existence based on belief systems that they are unwilling to compromise on.

I base my statements on my experiences and my interaction with the very same people that see us as the great Satan. I don't form my opinions on what I have read or seen on TV....I have been there and lived it first hand. Understanding this without experiencing it is akin to trying to explain what it is like to skydive to a whuffo who is convinced you cannot breath in freefall.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with me or my statement. There are people in this world who deal with the realities and uglier sides of the world so that others may enjoy their way of life, I am one of those people. So call it what ever you want if it helps you sleep at night but it all boils down to "US" against "THEM" and like the Holy Wars, it will likely have the same outcome when all is said and done. Such is the way of things.

Wow, now thats biblical, whether you see it or not. The same outcome indeed, just as the outcome in the future will as well... The outcome of life i guess. Let me just say thank you for doing what you do, and your right I for one dont want to deal with any of it unless I had to... I wish I could sound cooler but theres really nothing I can say. I dont think that aspect of the war is exposed as much... but no one here is going to "win" this discussion. To fight or not to fight has always been a question for all humans in the human race at some point... it surely has a purpose anyway... natures crowd control I guess.

"We didn't start the fire"

[jakee 1,493]

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The famous peace symbol, displayed by warriors as well hippies, is from the Wiccans or some like religion.

You're misinformed. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with the nuclear disarmament movement and semaphore flags like old school Navy signal men held in their hands and used to signal each other ship to ship.

The two downward diagonal lines form the "N" and the vertical line forms the "D". Nuclear Disarmament.

Gotta love how you've made the symbol fit your own view of the world though.

Looks like we are both right.

No, looks like you're still completely wrong. Nothing in the link you posted suggests it's a religious symbol. It's semaphore.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

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Looks like we are both right.

No, looks like you're still completely wrong. Nothing in the link you posted suggests it's a religious symbol. It's semaphore.

[RonD1120 62]

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To me this issue is not one of freedom of speech. It is about shooting ourselves in the foot for no good reason. The baddies want people to believe that we are on a Christian Crusade in their homelands. We all know we are not, but Mohammed who just signed up to join the ANA might not be convinced. Now he gets handed a scope that his buddy tells him is inscribed with a Christian symbol. It is not unreasonable for him to now question the motives of his trainers and the US as a whole.

That statement would seem to be logical given the explanation and circumstances. However, having walked up and down the mountains of Afghanistan with members of the ANA and gotten to know individuals in the ANA, most would not mind or care. A good deal of the soldiers in the ANA have had to watch as their family members were either tortured or killed by the taliban and that serves as their impetus to participate in the ANA. One of the the oldest and simplest reasons that has motivated people in some cases, this being one of them, revenge/payback/an eye for an eye is the predominate reason you will hear from those in the ANA. They want payback for their personal losses and they want a better way of life for their families. So I say that your supposition is moot as it contradicts what I know to be the ground truth. The average ANA soldier would be ecstatic to have a weapon sight that better enabled him to engage and defeat his enemy. Besides, if we followed your logic, that would mean they would be opposed to using AK-47s because it's a Russian weapon and we all know thats not the case.


I don't care what anyone calls it. Call it a Holy war, thats what it is if you break it down to the basic fundamentals and thats the way the radical Islamic fundamentalists view it. They want to kill everyone who does not think the way they do or those who do not agree with their belief system. For me, I don't care what you want to call it, they want to kill me and the way of life that I and those like me live. If more people could recognize and accept this truth they would realize that we are indeed in a war of existence based on belief systems that they are unwilling to compromise on.

I base my statements on my experiences and my interaction with the very same people that see us as the great Satan. I don't form my opinions on what I have read or seen on TV....I have been there and lived it first hand. Understanding this without experiencing it is akin to trying to explain what it is like to skydive to a whuffo who is convinced you cannot breath in freefall.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with me or my statement. There are people in this world who deal with the realities and uglier sides of the world so that others may enjoy their way of life, I am one of those people. So call it what ever you want if it helps you sleep at night but it all boils down to "US" against "THEM" and like the Holy Wars, it will likely have the same outcome when all is said and done. Such is the way of things.

Thank you, well stated.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,493]

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Looks like we are both right.

No, looks like you're still completely wrong. Nothing in the link you posted suggests it's a religious symbol. It's semaphore.

You did not read the whole article. Too many words?

[RonD1120 62]

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Still, in the time we live in, it has to go.

Sure, America must look like the wimp. Bravo Sierra!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

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Thats the biggest difference in SF compared to the rest of the Army. We are submersed into the lives and culture of those around us, no matter the country we are working in and live alongside the indigenous people on a daily basis, the rest of the military, not so much.

I was Civil Affairs. Believe me, I got to know the people.

We are not really disagreeing. I just don't see any positive to having the inscriptions on military equipment, but a lot of potential negatives. It is unnecessary and could be damaging to the mission. Mission first.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

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I read the whole article and unlike you, apparently, I understood it. (Words too for you big?)

But far be it from me to stand in the way of what some guy told you in a bar back in the day...

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Another interpretation, widely promoted by the John Birch Society and other right-wing groups, was that the symbol was really the "broken cross," sign of the Antichrist.

One Bircher wrote that the broken cross had originally been devised by the Roman emperor Nero, who had Saint Peter crucified upon it upside down. In the Middle Ages the symbol allegedly was used to signify the devil.

I have been unable to discover any good evidence for either of these contentions.

I recognized my basic error but it did not change my previous experience and admitted same.

Alcohol or bars had nothing to do with my experience. Please try harder, your adolescence is showing.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Darius11 12]

Am I the only one surprised that Christians are not more pissed at this?

I mean guns and killing people is not exactly Jesus M.O. right?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jakee 1,493]

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I recognized my basic error but it did not change my previous experience and admitted same.

No, you said that you were still right. You weren't right. The link you posted does not tell you that you were right, it merely tells you that some groups with a strong anti-CND bias also think the same thing that you do with absolutely no evidence. Maybe that's enough for you, but not for anyone interested in reality.

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Please try harder, your adolescence is showing.

Dude, you brought the schoolyard insults into this. I'm more than happy to follow your lead and play that game with you, but don't for a second pretend you're on higher ground. The one thing I can't stand is hypocrisy.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Zenister 0]

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Still, in the time we live in, it has to go.

Sure, America must look like the wimp. Bravo Sierra!

We look the wimp because we are fixing some religious nutjobs idea of 'cute'? Something that should have never been on any piece of equipment sold to the US military in the first place? The fact it was there at all is Bravo Sierra. The fact that it was 'hidden' as part of the serial number is a clear indication the owner KNEW he was 'getting away with something' he shouldn't have done.. otherwise why not engrave the full verse on the side for all to see? After all it wouldnt affect ther performance of the sight. "Dont hide your light under a bushel" and all right?? ofc doing that would have prevented his hardware from being even considered for military use AND HE KNEW THIS!

I'm sorry you are flat out wrong, removing an unnecessary piece of religious propaganda from military issued equipment is the only right thing to do. If you read the articles near every senior military commander (all but one, and he wasn't in a command position) called it 'troubling' and both British and Australian Military have a problem with it too

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[RonD1120 62]

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The one thing I can't stand is hypocrisy.

I don't see hypocrisy on either side of our discourse. We just don't like what the other says and we react. It's called a personality clash and it is much easier to express our negativity in the safety of the Internet.

I'm OK with that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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Still, in the time we live in, it has to go.

Sure, America must look like the wimp. Bravo Sierra!

We look the wimp because we are fixing some religious nutjobs idea of 'cute'? Something that should have never been on any piece of equipment sold to the US military in the first place? The fact it was there at all is Bravo Sierra. The fact that it was 'hidden' as part of the serial number is a clear indication the owner KNEW he was 'getting away with something' he shouldn't have done.. otherwise why not engrave the full verse on the side for all to see? After all it wouldnt affect ther performance of the sight. "Dont hide your light under a bushel" and all right?? ofc doing that would have prevented his hardware from being even considered for military use AND HE KNEW THIS!

I'm sorry you are flat out wrong, removing an unnecessary piece of religious propaganda from military issued equipment is the only right thing to do. If you read the articles near every senior military commander (all but one, and he wasn't in a command position) called it 'troubling' and both British and Australian Military have a problem with it too

Remember the fish symbol is for covert recognition. One person draws the top half in the sand. If the other person completes the symbol they both know they are allies.

I would like to see more overt symbolism with our troops. But, that is just me. This war has been prophesied for more than 2K years. I say quit hiding and bring it on.

Being a hawk is a lot easier at my age.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Am I the only one surprised that Christians are not more pissed at this?

I mean guns and killing people is not exactly Jesus M.O. right?

I dont think im pissed about it, but it is a completely false representation of Jesus... anymore these days all a believer can do is follow, hope, and wait for the world to destroy itself. People on both sides are consumed with so much zeal it is difficult to listen... but make no mistake, especially in light of this recent earthquake, the signs of the end times are already appearing. How many do we need before we start believing?

The average man has about 75 yrs (?) I guess to figure it out... that has NEVER EVER been long enough for us to learn from past generations "mistakes". Jesus explains the end times like childbirth... he says dont worry and do not be afraid, such things must happen, but the end is still to come... And it says the earth will be destroyed by its inhabitants and by fire.... theres so much to say, but all we really can do is wait.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Gene03 0]

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Am I the only one surprised that Christians are not more pissed at this?
No

I mean guns and killing people is not exactly Jesus M.O. right?
Agreed

About your sig line, I feel that is important to love your enemies.

We can never allow fear or hatred to rule our lives or all is lost.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[jakee 1,493]

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I don't see hypocrisy on either side of our discourse.

Then you're happy to recognise your own adolescent behaviour? If so, we're on the same page and I'm OK with that too.

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I would like to see more overt symbolism with our troops. But, that is just me.

Unfortunately it's not just you, but thankfully you're in a minority (at least among those who get to make those calls).

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This war has been prophesied for more than 2K years.

And people have been saying "this is the one" for roughly 2K years as well. They've never called it right yet, but feel free to keep trying - you only have to get lucky once.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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This war has been prophesied for more than 2K years. I say quit hiding and bring it on.

I dont think this war was prophesised... but a "time of wars and rumors of wars" was, so of course I get what your saying, but I personally dont think the war between Christianity and Islam is what Jesus was speaking about, although Genensis does explain such a prophesy and that is much older than 2k years... so that makes it even more incredible.

People should know that Jesus is about the spirit, not the world. Eph 6:12 "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms"

Calling this a Holy war is inaccurate, because there is NOTHING Holy about it. But many will argue about that becasue they dont understand/believe what the spirit is and where the real holy struggle is.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Zenister 0]

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Remember the fish symbol is for covert recognition. One person draws the top half in the sand. If the other person completes the symbol they both know they are allies.

I would like to see more overt symbolism with our troops. But, that is just me. This war has been prophesied for more than 2K years. I say quit hiding and bring it on.

Being a hawk is a lot easier at my age.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what America is about, and why exactly our way of life IS better than most of the rest of the world who are still governed by bronze age superstitions and obsolete cultural mores. But then that is the beauty of America, you are allowed to your uninformed opinion anyway no matter how dated it is.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[JohnRich 4]

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isolated quotes are quite misleading.

And yet you engaged in that activity yourself.

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You really have to read the whole thing. And when you do so, you get the clear impression that Christ's message is one of peace and forgiveness, not vengeance or pre-emptive violence.

Agreed. I said nothing about pre-emptive violence, nor vengeance - I only addressed using violence in self-defense. I don't believe there's anything wrong with using violence to defend yourself against violence brought on by someone else. If you're attacked, you have a moral duty to defend yourself and your loved ones from that attack, by whatever means necessary. To do nothing, and allow yourself or your family to be harmed by evildoers, is not something I think Jesus would sanction.

[JohnRich 4]

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If you find a way to justify violence in your mind and your "enemy" justifies it in his mind, then neither will find peace. Just because something is justified in the mind doesnt mean that it is right... does it?

So the U.S. shouldn't have gotten involved in WWII, because the violence we inflicted upon the Nazis and the Japs was wrong?

And yet, somehow, the U.S., Germany and Japan all have friendly relations with each other today. Go figure.

Quote: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

When an intruder breaks into your home and threatens to harm your family, you're welcome to do nothing. When he comes to my home, I'm going to shoot the bastard.

[JohnRich 4]

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The mfr is providing a kit to remove them, and will stop incorporating them in future manufacturing.

I hope they aren't charging for these 'kits'

News: http://www.trijicon.com/whats_new.cfm?whats_newID=169#169

Happy now?

[Gawain 0]

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Yeah, I've been there, too. I didn't work with the ANA, but interacted on a daily basis with Afghans from all walks of life.

Thats the biggest difference in SF compared to the rest of the Army. We are submersed into the lives and culture of those around us, no matter the country we are working in and live alongside the indigenous people on a daily basis, the rest of the military, not so much.

In broad strokes you are indeed correct, but I think you're selling the regular Army short. We were side-by-side with SPITT units and shared OPs with Iraqis. My unit's later deployment to Afghanistan was similar, and even more embedded with Afghan army units. We weren't living in mud-huts or with native families, but pre-surge and on in Iraq, every asset was "elevated" in mission I think. "Regular" army was joined with transition team, a lot of guys at 5SFG were telling me their roles were becoming more "secret squirrel" in nature....you and I know the rest.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 2,994]

>If you're attacked, you have a moral duty to defend yourself

Jesus made it pretty clear that you should turn the other cheek. However, your morality is what you make it, not what a religion makes it.

[JohnRich 4]

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>>If you're attacked, you have a moral duty to defend yourself

< Jesus made it pretty clear that you should turn the other cheek.

Quote: "isolated quotes are quite misleading"

So you were wrong to judo-flip that guy that attacked you?

[rehmwa 2]

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So you were wrong to judo-flip that guy that attacked you?

Many judo-flips consist of a grab, and then quickly turning the 'lower' cheeks to get leverage.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants