Jesus Rifles

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Like a continual dripping, a puppy yapping, constant whining, I can no longer relate to you with any seriousness. G'day mate and good luck. It's all you got to go on.

Fair do's, y'old mentalist.

You may have proven incapable of seeing sense or reason, but at least you kept up your own standards of civilised, adult discourse. Ah, wait - no. Shame.

Kettle, meet pot - you've hardly kept to the 'high road' yourself, mate.

I've never said I do. But see my earlier post ref hypocrisy. When people play dirty then I'll happily play along with no complaints. But when Ron started talking about maturity with his track record and his previous and subsequent posting style in this thread? Stinking hypocrisy.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

So if I was to write what I suggested above, would you say I was mistaken?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I think it would be safe to say that the gentleman is totally motivated by profit. That is his world.

wow, I had a font size and text change glitch that's just continuing here.....sorry about that

why would you hack on Quade like that? (I poke at his recent cynicism because I liked it better when he was more humorous and less lucky-like)

I would say settling foreign lands is always for profit and that goes for 99% of endeavors anyway, so the point is really moot either way - so I'd agree with him. I would disagree and also say the founders were primarily christian (PC nonsense nod to the natives at the time I guess ), but that doesn't mean the government was 'founded' on christian beliefs, just that those that did the founding were of christian background

so I'm sum it up

so, yes it was a "christian nation" (due to the populace was primarily christian). And, despite that, the founders wanted to ensure that, even though christian morals may be guided their actions, they absolutely did NOT want it have a "christian govenment"

I'm pretty impressed and proud of them for being able to do that at that time.


but that doesn't mean it's that way today, nor should it be - nor should those not christian have to 'shut up'.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

So if I was to write what I suggested above, would you say I was mistaken?

I would - I wouldn't talk about how it was against the Constitution.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

So if I was to write what I suggested above, would you say I was mistaken?

I would - I wouldn't talk about how it was against the Constitution.

Why not?

If I am mistaken, it is because I (hypothetically) think that America is a fascist dictatorship with martial law. But America is not, and the Constitution forbids it to be so. The two are intertwined. If I am mistaken, then what I think about America is wrong re. the Constitution.

Same applies to Ron and his family.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

So if I was to write what I suggested above, would you say I was mistaken?

I would - I wouldn't talk about how it was against the Constitution.

Why not?

If I am mistaken, it is because I (hypothetically) think that America is a fascist dictatorship with martial law. But America is not, and the Constitution forbids it to be so. The two are intertwined. If I am mistaken, then what I think about America is wrong re. the Constitution.

Same applies to Ron and his family.

If I tell you "you can't talk about "x" on my property", you can't sue me for violating your First Amendment rights. The BOR is a restriction upon the GOVERNMENT, not upon families or individuals.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DanG 1]

Here, let me break it down for both of you. As mnealtx has pointed out, these two questions are not the same:

Do you think Jews and gays should shut up?

Do you think the government should force Jews and gays to shut up?

Now that we've established the difference, what are your respective answers?

I answer no to both.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

In your opinion - and his family STILL isn't the government.

Where did I ever say it was? It is what he and his family believe about the country and the government, and what they believe about the country and the government is wrong.

Let's put it this way, if I said to you that my family passed down to me the values that America is a fascist nation ruled by dictatorship and martial law, would you say I was mistaken? After all, according to you, I'm only talking about me and my family, not America

I'd ask if you lived in New Zealand...

Well, if I actually believed that it'd be a fair question

But seriously, since you're now dodging the question I'll assume you see my point?

I see your point, I just don't agree with it.

So if I was to write what I suggested above, would you say I was mistaken?

I would - I wouldn't talk about how it was against the Constitution.

Why not?

If I am mistaken, it is because I (hypothetically) think that America is a fascist dictatorship with martial law. But America is not, and the Constitution forbids it to be so. The two are intertwined. If I am mistaken, then what I think about America is wrong re. the Constitution.

Same applies to Ron and his family.

If I tell you "you can't talk about "x" on my property", you can't sue me for violating your First Amendment rights. The BOR is a restriction upon the GOVERNMENT, not upon families or individuals.

You are the first person to bring up the concept of "on my property". That is not what we are talking about and you fucking know it. Stop dodging.

What Ron said reflected things that he and his family think about America and the government, things which are wrong re. the Constitution and actual history. In the last couple of posts you have just about demonstrated that you understood this, and now you've simply reverted to arguing the old strawman position which I've shown you is wrong.

I have no idea why you've done this, except to repeat what I've already thrown out there - you simply can't bear to not argue with me.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

You are the first person to bring up the concept of "on my property". That is not what we are talking about and you fucking know it. Stop dodging.

I'm not dodging - I'm trying to explain in a manner that is both truthful and that you can understand. I control my property - I have no right to tell you "you can't talk about 'x'" if we're standing in a public street - I have no authority there.

Quote

What Ron said reflected things that he and his family think about America and the government, things which are wrong re. the Constitution and actual history.

No. His family's view do NOT reflect the government's views. They may be wrong, but they do NOT violate the Constitution because the Constitution is ONLY a restriction upon GOVERNMENT.

Quote

In the last couple of posts you have just about demonstrated that you understood this, and now you've simply reverted to arguing the old strawman position which I've shown you is wrong.

Wrong again - see my initial response at the top of the post.

Quote

I have no idea why you've done this, except to repeat what I've already thrown out there - you simply can't bear to not argue with me.

Why? Because you STILL don't understand it, and in your insistence upon comparing the view of his FAMILY to the Constitution, you are WRONG.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Quote

I think it would be safe to say that the gentleman is totally motivated by profit. That is his world.

wow, I had a font size and text change glitch that's just continuing here.....sorry about that

why would you hack on Quade like that?

I'm not down on him. Although in this thread he joined the fray to try and back me into a corner. I see him as a businessman that sees the world in dollars and cents. I think he evaluates in terms of profit and loss for a rational base.

I, on the other hand, evaluate my world from a spiritual perspective and believe God will supply all my needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus. (Philippeans 4:19) Consequently, I am a terrible businessman. I am a good steward but lousy at earning money.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

why would you hack on Quade like that?

I'm not down on him. Although in this thread he joined the fray to try and back me into a corner. I see him as a businessman that sees the world in dollars and cents. I think he evaluates in terms of profit and loss for a rational base.

Ok, thanks for the laugh on that. Seems you know about as much about me as you do US history.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Ok, thanks for the laugh on that. Seems you know about as much about me as you do US history.

Touche'

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

I'm not dodging - I'm trying to explain in a manner that is both truthful and that you can understand. I control my property - I have no right to tell you "you can't talk about 'x'" if we're standing in a public street - I have no authority there.

No shit, Shirley.

Quote

No. His family's view do NOT reflect the government's views. They may be wrong, but they do NOT violate the Constitution because the Constitution is ONLY a restriction upon GOVERNMENT.

I didn't say his families views reflect the governments views. You've invented that from nowhere.

I did not say his families views violated the constitution, you've invented that from nowhere.

The only thing I have said about them is what I've highlighted in bold. So if you fucking agree with me, why the fuck are you arguing?

Quote

Why? Because you STILL don't understand it, and in your insistence upon comparing the view of his FAMILY to the Constitution, you are WRONG.

It's the view of him and his family about what the country is. The constitution describes the country. His views about the country are wrong, re. the Constitution. He does not violate the Constitution, he is simply wrong about it.

Do you get it yet?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm not dodging - I'm trying to explain in a manner that is both truthful and that you can understand. I control my property - I have no right to tell you "you can't talk about 'x'" if we're standing in a public street - I have no authority there.

No shit, Shirley.

Glad you finally "got it".

Quote

Quote

No. His family's view do NOT reflect the government's views. They may be wrong, but they do NOT violate the Constitution because the Constitution is ONLY a restriction upon GOVERNMENT.

I didn't say his families views reflect the governments views. You've invented that from nowhere.

I did not say his families views violated the constitution, you've invented that from nowhere.

>>At the very least, you've missed out a large chunk of the Bill of Rights. I'd suggest checking it out.
The BOR is a restriction upon the GOVERNMENT, not a values statement.

Quote

The only thing I have said about them is what I've highlighted in bold. So if you fucking agree with me, why the fuck are you arguing?

Because, as I've shown above, it's NOT the only thing you've said. You're having problems separating legal issues and values statements.

Quote

Quote

Why? Because you STILL don't understand it, and in your insistence upon comparing the view of his FAMILY to the Constitution, you are WRONG.

It's the view of him and his family about what the country is. The constitution describes the country.

No - the Constitution describes what the GOVERNMENT can/can't do and how it operates.

Quote

His views about the country are wrong, re. the Constitution. He does not violate the Constitution, he is simply wrong about it.

Nope. He's made no comments on the Constitution, only on the values his parents/grandparents passed on to him. His view of America may be right or wrong by your standpoint, but that has nothing to do with the Constitution.

Quote

Do you get it yet?

I've 'gotten it' all along - I'm just trying to make YOU 'get it'.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Glad you finally "got it".

Finally? You only brought it up two posts ago and I didn't dispute it. I simply told you it's still got sweet fuck all to do with what you're arguing about, and that still holds.

Quote

Quote

I didn't say his families views reflect the governments views. You've invented that from nowhere.

I did not say his families views violated the constitution, you've invented that from nowhere.

>>At the very least, you've missed out a large chunk of the Bill of Rights. I'd suggest checking it out.<<

The BOR is a restriction upon the GOVERNMENT, not a values statement.

i've demonstrated to you, conclusively, that his 'values statement' is a statement of their opinion about what the country is and how it works. That is why the constitution is relevant, because it stops the country from being what he thinks it is, and doing what he thinks it should do.

(And as anyone with the least amount of reading comprehension can understand, your quote from me does not say any of the things you said I said.)

Quote

Because, as I've shown above, it's NOT the only thing you've said. You're having problems separating legal issues and values statements.

It is the only the thing I've said, you have utterly failed to show otherwise. You have problems recognising that his 'values' statement was about what the country is.

Quote

No - the Constitution describes what the GOVERNMENT can/can't do and how it operates.

If it will make you happy, replace the word country with state.

Quote

Nope. He's made no comments on the Constitution, only on the values his parents/grandparents passed on to him. His view of America may be right or wrong by your standpoint, but that has nothing to do with the Constitution.

He has made comments on things about the state that are covered by the Constitution. Things that are wrong re. the Constitution.

Quote

I've 'gotten it' all along

Given the all falshoods and irrelevancies you've just written, it's clear that you don't.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Glad you finally "got it".

Finally? You only brought it up two posts ago and I didn't dispute it. I simply told you it's still got sweet fuck all to do with what you're arguing about, and that still holds.

It absolutely DOES have relevance - guess you didn't 'get it' after all.

Quote

Quote

I didn't say his families views reflect the governments views. You've invented that from nowhere.

I did not say his families views violated the constitution, you've invented that from nowhere.

>>At the very least, you've missed out a large chunk of the Bill of Rights. I'd suggest checking it out.<<

The BOR is a restriction upon the GOVERNMENT, not a values statement.

i've demonstrated to you, conclusively, that his 'values statement' is a statement of their opinion about what the country is and how it works. That is why the constitution is relevant, because it stops the country from being what he thinks it is, and doing what he thinks it should do.

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

No - that's what I keep trying to explain to you. The Constitution only affects the GOVERNMENT. It's a fucking business plan for Fed.gov - that's it.

Which is what he was talking about.

Quote

That might have flown, if you hadn't mentioned the BOR - as it is... *shrug*

So show me where I said he violated the BOR. Go-on, I triple fucking dare you.

Quote

YOU have problems distinguishing between a values statement and a document that says "the government can't do this and this and this".

I've shown you, conclusively, where his 'values statement' was talking about the state. You have not disputed that he was talking about the state. So why on earth do you think you have a point here?

Quote

Doesn't make a difference. Families aren't the Federal Gov't, and they aren't State governments.

I'm not the US government either. But I can still say things about the government and be wrong, re. the Constitution - and so can you, and so can Ron, and so can his family.

Quote

Then you don't have anything NEAR the understanding of the Constitution that you claim. If you did, you'd realize that you've been talking out of your ass the whole time.

We're not even arguing about the Constitution here, we're arguing about your complete lack of attention to what Ron actually said, and your continual misrepresentation of my argument just so you have something to keep bleating on about.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

No - that's what I keep trying to explain to you. The Constitution only affects the GOVERNMENT. It's a fucking business plan for Fed.gov - that's it.

Which is what he was talking about.

No, Jakee - his OPINION has nothing to do with how government runs.

Quote

Quote

That might have flown, if you hadn't mentioned the BOR - as it is... *shrug*

So show me where I said he violated the BOR. Go-on, I triple fucking dare you.

He *can't* violate the BOR. He can't be right or wrong in reference to the BOR. Nothing that he does or says has fuck-all to do with the BOR, because the BOR is a restriction on the GOVERNMENT. I explained that above, but you still don't understand, evidently.

Quote

Quote

YOU have problems distinguishing between a values statement and a document that says "the government can't do this and this and this".

I've shown you, conclusively, where his 'values statement' was talking about the state. You have not disputed that he was talking about the state. So why on earth do you think you have a point here?

WRONG. His value statement is just that - his values. It doesn't have merry fuck-all to do with the state or federal gov't.

Quote

Quote

Doesn't make a difference. Families aren't the Federal Gov't, and they aren't State governments.

I'm not the US government either. But I can still say things about the government and be wrong, re. the Constitution - and so can you, and so can Ron, and so can his family.

Nope - again (and again and again and again), he's NOT talking about the government, but the values his family passed on to him. How many MORE times does that have to be pointed out to you before you understand it?

Quote

Quote

Then you don't have anything NEAR the understanding of the Constitution that you claim. If you did, you'd realize that you've been talking out of your ass the whole time.

We're not even arguing about the Constitution here, we're arguing about your complete lack of attention to what Ron actually said, and your continual misrepresentation of my argument just so you have something to keep bleating on about.

No, we ARE talking about the Constitution and your continued misunderstanding about it. What Ron and his family says or believes has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. Period fucking dot.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

No, Jakee - his OPINION has nothing to do with how government runs.

His opinion was, in large part at least, about how the government runs. See #184

Quote

He *can't* violate the BOR.

Show me where I said he did!?!

Why are you even saying that?

Quote

He can't be right or wrong in reference to the BOR. Nothing that he does or says has fuck-all to do with the BOR, because the BOR is a restriction on the GOVERNMENT. I explained that above, but you still don't understand, evidently.

He's talking ABOUT things that relate to the BOR. ABOUT. Do you not know what that word means?

Quote

WRONG. His value statement is just that - his values. It doesn't have merry fuck-all to do with the state or federal gov't.

184

Quote

Nope - again (and again and again and again), he's NOT talking about the government, but the values his family passed on to him. How many MORE times does that have to be pointed out to you before you understand it?

184

Quote

No, we ARE talking about the Constitution and your continued misunderstanding about it. What Ron and his family says or believes has NOTHING to do with the Constitution.

Except when he's talking about it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

No, Jakee - his OPINION has nothing to do with how government runs.

His opinion was, in large part at least, about how the government runs. See #184

Where you keep talking about what HIS FAMILY believes, you mean?

Quote

Quote

He *can't* violate the BOR.

Show me where I said he did!?!

Why are you even saying that?

Because you asked me to prove an impossibility - can you not even keep up with your own posts?

Quote

Quote

He can't be right or wrong in reference to the BOR. Nothing that he does or says has fuck-all to do with the BOR, because the BOR is a restriction on the GOVERNMENT. I explained that above, but you still don't understand, evidently.

He's talking ABOUT things that relate to the BOR. ABOUT. Do you not know what that word means?

No, he's not. He's talking about his family's beliefs.

Quote

WRONG. His value statement is just that - his values. It doesn't have merry fuck-all to do with the state or federal gov't.

184

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Quote

No, Jakee - his OPINION has nothing to do with how government runs.

His opinion was, in large part at least, about how the government runs. See #184

Quote

No, my values have nothing to do, in this context, with how the government works.

Quote

WRONG. His value statement is just that - his values. It doesn't have merry fuck-all to do with the state or federal gov't.

Quote

Pay attention to the above jakee

Except when he's talking about it.

Quote

Thank you for seeing me as a special authority. However, I am not an authority on the Constitutional Law. Contact Andy9o8 for such questions.

I fear the law and its consequences. My values are a different consideration for behavioral decisions.

Bottom line, you are not a citizen of the U.S. What you believe, feel or fantasize about American lifestyles and our laws don't mean squat.

(edited for civility)

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

• Quote

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

Where you keep talking about what HIS FAMILY believes, you mean?

What he and his family believes about the government, in areas covered by the Constitution.

When talking about a set of rules, a person can be wrong even if the rules they are talking about do not apply to them. It is such an incredibly basic concept.

Quote

Because you asked me to prove an impossibility - can you not even keep up with your own posts?

What the fuck are you even talking about now? You said that I said he violated the Constitution. I have said no such thing and you know it, yet you keep trying to go down that road because it's the only chance you've of actually having a point.

Now, show me where I fucking said it.

Quote

Except he's not - his family's beliefs are NOT the Constitution.

No fucking shit, Shirley. But he was talking about his beliefs about things that relate to the Constitution.

Why are you so incapable of understanding this? I'm saying that his beliefs about it are wrong, not that his beliefs are it. There really is no possibe way that you are still genuinely misunderstanding this, so why don't you just drop the fucking games already?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,493]

Quote

No, my values have nothing to do, in this context, with how the government works.

Except that they do, since you were talking about things that are under the control of the government and the big C.

Quote

Thank you for seeing me as a special authority.

Only as an especially bad one.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

Quote

No, my values have nothing to do, in this context, with how the government works.

Except that they do, since you were talking about things that are under the control of the government and the big C.

Quote

No I was not.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

• Quote