Canadian Politicial heading to USA for Heart Surgery

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Do NOT ... I repeat ... do NOT think of Canada as having a healthcare system you want to emulate. When one of the nation's more prominent politicians decides to head south for heart surgery because he knows he will get better care in the USA, you know leftists and marxists are only spewing their propaganda when they say the public option is the only way to go.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2010/02/01/nl-williams-heart-201.html

PS: Ignore all the "Canada hates the USA" crap from some of the bloggers seen in this story. It is after all a story found on the CBC (Canadians Broadcasting Communism) website. Contrary to what is read in the blogs, about 40% of Canadians do like you guys.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[mnealtx 0]

You're obviously mistaken - the US healthcare system sucks, just ask WHO.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wmw999 2,447]

The US health care system is absolutely spectacular at and close to its apex. However, its nadir is lower than many other industrialized countries'.

Do we want a higher average, or to keep the highs and lows?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Armour666 0]

If health care system is so great in the US then why do some people travel out of the US for procedures? Why do some people travel out of their City or state?

people want the best and some can afford it. In medicine doctors that are best in their field are all over the world no one country has the market corned on the top specialist in every aspect of medicine.

I can at least say living in Canada I will not be facing bankruptcy because someone in my family had to be treated in emerg or have to chose to delay seeing a doctor because of cost.

Our system is not perfect but it dose work.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Andy9o8 2]

Good for him; I'm glad it's affordable for him.

Big deal.

If he was uninsured, unemployed and had no money in the bank, and had to go to the ER with a broken leg or gall bladder attack, the financial end-result for him in the US would be much different than it would be for him in Canada (or the UK or Australia or France or Germany or Italy or Holland or Belgium).

[skycop 0]

Yep,
Let's take care down to the lowest common denominator. Everyone should suffer equally, and there really should'nt be montary reward for all that school and hard work.
Do you work in the PD's office? Are the bulk of your hours pro bono? I doubt it. If you do work in the PD's office cudo's to ya, and if the bulk of your hours are pro bono then I stand corrected.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Yep, Let's take care down to the lowest common denominator.

If you're going to demagogue other people's positions in the discussion, there's no point to having the discussion.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Yep, Let's take care down to the lowest common denominator.

If you're going to demagogue other people's positions in the discussion, there's no point to having the discussion.

My irony meter just exploded

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

My irony meter just exploded

That was your cranium, Marc.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

My irony meter just exploded

That was your cranium, Marc.

Booooooom

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skycop 0]

If you're going to demagogue other people's positions in the discussion, there's no point to having the discussion. ***

If you want to punt okay, but it's a valid point.


Some choose to be in the position they are, many don't. Some type of reform is needed, however those who make the right choices both insured and uninsured should not have their level of care impacted by the lowest common denominator.

I'm no fan of insurance compaines, I'm fighting with one now. But, I'm REALLY not a fan of the govt. running my health care. Been there done that in the military, overall not a very pleasant experience.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

The US health care system is absolutely spectacular at and close to its apex. However, its nadir is lower than many other industrialized countries'.

Do we want a higher average, or to keep the highs and lows?

Wendy P.

Right. My thought is "keep the highs and lows." The highs and lows are called "choice.".

Some don't like that there are choices. Cadillac care is available for a price. Or, you can get a Hyundai with spinner rims.

These are choices. I like a no-frills SUV. I could go lots of add-ons but I like to exercise my choice.

The issue, Wendy, that is seen in this original post is that "raising the average" is not so important as "maintaining the average." The average car may be a Ford Focus. That's what you get. "But I am a contractor and need a pickup truck. I'll pay extra.". Nope. Ford Focus.

"I'm single. No kids. I don't need or even want a 4 seater." You get a Ford Focus.

"What about my satellite radio?". Nope. Not everyone has it. Thus you don't get it. (Clearchannel has donated millions to car reform).

This is the health care financing plan. The government will set what you get. No more. No less. To those under the threshhold it's a great deal - they will get more for their money. To those above the threshhold they will get less for the same (saving money for the wealthy and middle class is NEVER on the agenda for social programs.)

The odds are, of course, that the average has not changed.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

This is the health care financing plan. The government will set what you get. No more. No less. To those under the threshhold it's a great deal - they will get more for their money. To those above the threshhold they will get less for the same (saving money for the wealthy and middle class is NEVER on the agenda for social programs.)

Are you saying that the US health care reform proposals would prevent anyone from being able to privately insure to a higher standard than what the gov't will supply?

Is that actually true?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ridestrong 1]

Quote

If health care system is so great in the US then why do some people travel out of the US for procedures?

uuuuuh... Not really.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Have any of you taken a good look at some of the European systems? Canada has a mandatory single payer system for (almost) everything with any serious extras being provided by the US system. This system meets the basic requirement of a level of care for all, but is being crushed under the weight of inefficiencies endemic in "tragedy of the commons" susceptible systems. Other western countries have mixed systems with a single payer option being part of but not the only part of a system that allows those who can pay to purchase a higher level of care. I have not researched it but I have heard anecdotes from German friends that indicate that Americans would do well to examine systems outside NA for ideas to improve the system.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The premier's office provided few details, beyond confirming that he would have heart surgery and saying that it was not necessarily a routine procedure.

Whether or not the above is true (seems a bit wishy washy), I think it's fair to say that the US is a place of expertise when it comes to heart surgery. We have a lot more volume there than Canada would. And his entire province has a population of ~500k. It's not always about cost/availability, though certainly that could still be relevant here.

[Andy9o8 2]

Ideally, the imposed "average" is a minimum only; it need not necessarily preclude those who wish to purchase enhanced coverage (and/or pay for more care out of their own pockets) from doing so.

Yeah, in other countries maybe the best you can get solely by virtue of being a citizen taxpayer is a Focus; and maybe nothing better than that is available in your country with out a year-long wait, if at all, so to get something better you go to the US where you can buy one right away, if you've got the dough. But at least in your other country, if you're unemployed or working poor and can't afford private insurance you're still pretty much guaranteed that Focus, whereas in the US the best you'll be able to get is a bike.

I grow weary of this being an "all or nothing" debate.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

The premier's office provided few details, beyond confirming that he would have heart surgery and saying that it was not necessarily a routine procedure.

Whether or not the above is true (seems a bit wishy washy), I think it's fair to say that the US is a place of expertise when it comes to heart surgery. We have a lot more volume there than Canada would. And his entire province has a population of ~500k. It's not always about cost/availability, though certainly that could still be relevant here.

This is true, and Newfoundland cannot be expected to have cutting edge medicine in every field any more than Wyoming or Alaska does. If he were to travel to Toronto or Edmonton (where heart research is one our strengths) the cost would be considerably lower and mostly if not wholly paid for by the health care system. The fact that he is going to the States indicates that it may be a very specialized procedure and/or he is one of the countries elite and the fine health care system he provides for his people doesn't really have much to do with him or his family.
NEWS FLASH: Hockey players don't wait in line!

[ridestrong 1]

Quote

Quote

This is the health care financing plan. The government will set what you get. No more. No less. To those under the threshhold it's a great deal - they will get more for their money. To those above the threshhold they will get less for the same (saving money for the wealthy and middle class is NEVER on the agenda for social programs.)

Are you saying that the US health care reform proposals would prevent anyone from being able to privately insure to a higher standard than what the gov't will supply?

Is that actually true?

Yes, there actually were some provisions in place that would have prohibited people from privately paying for services outside of the government plan, or prohibited medical professionals from accepting funds for services outside of the govt plan. Not sure if this was ever changed or removed, I think it was, as it was originally part of the one time proposed single payer system.

The reason being, the govt did not want practitioners opening private cash businesses creating a two tier quality health care system. Or also to prevent practitioners from accepting money for services that the govt plan would not cover, ie considered bribes.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

NEWS FLASH: Hockey players don't wait in line!

I think that has more to do with the reason why Chuck Norris doesn't wait in line.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Quote

If health care system is so great in the US then why do some people travel out of the US for procedures?

uuuuuh... Not really.

uuuuuuh....yes really

Quote

A forecast by Deloitte Consulting published in August 2008 projected that medical tourism originating in the US could jump by a factor of ten over the next decade. An estimated 750,000 Americans went abroad for health care in 2007, and the report estimated that a million and a half would seek health care outside the US in 2008. The growth in medical tourism has the potential to cost US health care providers billions of dollars in lost revenue

[DanG 1]

Quote

Yes, there actually were some provisions in place that would have prohibited people from privately paying for services outside of the government plan, or prohibited medical professionals from accepting funds for services outside of the govt plan. Not sure if this was ever changed or removed, I think it was, as it was originally part of the one time proposed single payer system.

That is not in the House or Senate bills. The Republicans want you to think it is, but it is not.

AFAIK, it never was. Neither, believe it or not, were death panels.

- Dan G

[Rstanley0312 1]

Contrary to what is read in the blogs, about 40% of Canadians do like you guys.

Awesome... everytime I head north everyone is really friendly. Unless we head in to those "french" provinces

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,991]

>>then why do some people travel out of the US for procedures?

>uuuuuh... Not really.

I know several skydivers who have gone to Sweden for shoulder surgery. It's almost as if different countries have different strengths, eh? Hard to believe!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If health care system is so great in the US then why do some people travel out of the US for procedures?

uuuuuh... Not really.

uuuuuuh....yes really

Quote

A forecast by Deloitte Consulting published in August 2008 projected that medical tourism originating in the US could jump by a factor of ten over the next decade. An estimated 750,000 Americans went abroad for health care in 2007, and the report estimated that a million and a half would seek health care outside the US in 2008. The growth in medical tourism has the potential to cost US health care providers billions of dollars in lost revenue

A 'forecast' - great! Can they 'forecast' me the Powerball numbers for next week, too?

FYI, Deloitte's 2008 report showed some 400k coming TO the US for treatment.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706