Tax cheats beware: IRS buying sawed-off shotguns

[rhaig 0]

I stand corrected http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=98141,00.html

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Statutory Authority
The IRS is organized to carry out the responsibilities of the secretary of the Treasury under section 7801 of the Internal Revenue Code. The secretary has full authority to administer and enforce the internal revenue laws and has the power to create an agency to enforce these laws. The IRS was created based on this legislative grant.

I still think it's bullshit. Want to seize property? Coordinate with local law enforcement. Isn't that the way it's always been done? Sure as hell has to be cheaper than maintaining a standing police force. Unless, of course they're planning on taking away a lot of stuff in the coming years.

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Rob

[SivaGanesha 2]

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News Flash!

Law enforcement can have access to weapons.

Whoopity doo.

My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law. If the IRS wants to proceed with criminal charges against a taxpayer, they need to go through the FBI to do so. It is therefore unclear to me why the IRS needs to be armed, although obviously the FBI would be.

Actual criminal tax proceedings are, as a result, fairly rare--it is far more common for the IRS to use the threat of criminal prosecution to enforce civil compliance. Civil actions--seizure of property and assets, garnishment of wages, administrative penalties--are things the IRS can and very often does do on its own.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Amazon 7]

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the IRS is using a weapon not legal for purchase or ownership by citizens.

I hate to break it to you but as a branch of the governement... they..... like other branches...... have lots of weapons that most regular citizens can't own.

[rushmc 23]

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News Flash!

Law enforcement can have access to weapons.

Whoopity doo.

My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law. If the IRS wants to proceed with criminal charges against a taxpayer, they need to go through the FBI to do so. It is therefore unclear to me why the IRS needs to be armed, although obviously the FBI would be.

Actual criminal tax proceedings are, as a result, fairly rare--it is far more common for the IRS to use the threat of criminal prosecution to enforce civil compliance. Civil actions--seizure of property and assets, garnishment of wages, administrative penalties--are things the IRS can and very often does do on its own.

Maybe they are preparing to do the enforcement that Pelosi and Reid have put in the HC bill. Cause they are the "enforcers" as found in the House and Senate bills.

If passed, shot guns will not be enough fire power however.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

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It would be like asking a liberal arts major if they approve or disapprove of hydrogen as a primary fuel for scramjets.

Oh sure, like the conservative arts majors would know any better!

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[labrys 0]

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My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law.

Then you misunderstand.

Owned by Remi #?

[SivaGanesha 2]

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My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law.

Then you misunderstand.

I'm referring to the following page:

http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=175752,00.html

which states:

If CI determines the investigation should be criminally prosecuted, a prosecution recommendation is forwarded to:

1. The Department of Justice, Tax Division, (if it is a tax investigation)

In other words the IRS does not prosecute criminal tax cases directly. They must rely on the Department of Justice, Tax Division to do so.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[labrys 0]

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In other words the IRS does not prosecute criminal tax cases directly.

You said that the IRS did not enforce criminal law. Prosecution and enforcement are not the same thing. Police officers also do not prosecute criminal law.

Owned by Remi #?

[champu 1]

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I could be wrong but wasn't the CIA originally a project of the Treasury branch?

You're thinking of the Secret Service and they still are.

They're under DHS now.

/edited to add: CIA has always been independent, like the FCC or NASA.

[rhaig 0]

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My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law.

Then you misunderstand.

I'd like to take this moment to crown you kind of short, vague, useless comments.

You too can now work in my industry. Software support.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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In other words the IRS does not prosecute criminal tax cases directly.

You said that the IRS did not enforce criminal law. Prosecution and enforcement are not the same thing. Police officers also do not prosecute criminal law.

well if you're going to exploit a technicality, then by their statutory authority I quoted earlier, the IRS may not enforce. They may however, according to their mandate create an agency to enforce these laws.

--
Rob

[georgerussia 0]

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News Flash!
Law enforcement can have access to weapons.
Whoopity doo.

Let's wait until he leans what weapons the military can use. Gonna be a lot of exciting polls like:

- Yes, I support the rights of our military and citizens to carry assault weapons
- No, I think our military should only use baseball bats to prevent gun violence.

Disclaimer to some pro-gun people: this post is supposed to be sarcasm, I do not have access to time machine and therefore do not have any evidence that JohnRich is going to create such a poll.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Broke 0]

Of course you guys do realize the IRS is a private company based out of Porto Rico. They aren't actually a part of the government, but everyone thinks they are.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Andy9o8 2]

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My understanding is that the IRS has no direct legal role in enforcing criminal law, even tax law.

Then you misunderstand.

I'd like to take this moment to crown you kind of short, vague, useless comments..

But it was right.

[rhaig 0]

while they may prosecute, they do not enforce. See my above quote with the Statutory Authority for the IRS (from their own web page).

They have the authority to create a separate agency to enforce the law.

--
Rob

[labrys 0]

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See my above quote with the Statutory Authority for the IRS

"Statutory Authority
The IRS is organized to carry out the responsibilities of the secretary of the Treasury under section 7801 of the Internal Revenue Code. The secretary has full authority to administer and enforce the internal revenue laws and has the power to create an agency to enforce these laws. The IRS was created based on this legislative grant."

Maybe you should re-read your own quote. What it says it that the IRS was created to enforce tax laws under the authority of the Secretary if the Treasury.

Owned by Remi #?

[Andy9o8 2]

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while they may prosecute, they do not enforce. See my above quote with the Statutory Authority for the IRS (from their own web page).

They have the authority to create a separate agency to enforce the law.

If you're referring to the link in your post #26, that establishes by its very language that the IRS is an enforcement agency. Per that statue, the "they" is not the IRS; it is the Secretary of the Treasury. The IRS is the separate agency created by the Sec'y Treas. to enforce the US revenue laws.

Ever hear of raids on moonshine stills out in West Virginny? Some o' them's done by "revenuers". That's either state revenue (i.e., tax) agents or Federal IRS field agents to you flatlanders.

Yes, IRS agents do have field enforcement duties. Yes, they do overlap with the duties of other LEO's, as often happens. And yes, just as drug-labbers and pot-growers will protect their stash with guns, so will moonshiners; and yes, shoot-em-ups do occur. If one of those revenuers out in the field were a loved one of mine, you can bet I'd want him to be well-armed.

[diablopilot 2]

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When does the IRS conduct raids, rather than involve LE agencies like ATF, FBI, or the locals? Should the IRS be doing these at all?***

I've been on several tactical raids where the IRS has been present ( I was a local type SWAT guy). The IRS does initiate it's own investigations, some of them involve violent criminals. One of the best ways to get oraganized crime types is tax-evasion related.
These guys deserve the best tools available, the 870 entry gun is excellent.

I think the original point, stated in another way would not argue with the quality of the firearm, but in fact complement it's quality, but ask why it is not available as a tool for law abiding citizens to defend their homes with?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[quade 4]

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I think the original point, stated in another way would not argue with the quality of the firearm, but in fact complement it's quality, but ask why it is not available as a tool for law abiding citizens to defend their homes with?

Same reason law enforcement has access to a lot of things and can do a lot of things you can't; they're law enforcement.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[diablopilot 2]

And what makes them more qualified, and responsible? And you can't answer they're law enforcement. So was the Schutzstaffel Waffen SS.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rhaig 0]

so go pay the $300 and go through the background check to get a class-3 weapon.

Then you too can buy a shotgun like this.

--
Rob

[diablopilot 2]

Not that interested. A) I have a short enough barrel on my HD 870, and B) I live in the lovely state of California where you check your constitutional rights at the border, and potato launchers are illegal.

The point I make is the one spelled out by that famous quote from Animal Farm. Too many blindly trust "law enforcement" to always do the virtuous thing, be just and protective, when in reality, LE is comprised of humans subject to all human vices and failures, just like the "public".

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AggieDave 6]

You have the ability to change the laws. You have the ability to fight for what you believe in. You should know this, you do this with the USPA. If you believe as strongly as you say you do on the internet, work to change the laws in your state!

Should LE have access to top of the line gear? Yes. Should LE have access to mission specific gear? Yes. Do criminals have the same gear? Yes. Can regular citizens buy much of it? Yes. The gear is expensive, though.

For instance, I would love to SBR an AR and put a can on it. Its easy enough to do this as a normal citizen, although by the time I'm done building a new upper, getting the can, putting it in a trust to protect the investment and purchasing the tax stamps would put me in the $5000 range.

Man, you're going to be really pissed when you find out that the Border Patrol SRT use custom built Suburbans with thermal equipment, are issued PVS-14s, mounted on bump helmets and sometimes insert using Blackhawks.

I'll probably buy a comp Velo before I buy all of that fun AR stuff.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 2]

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California where ... potato launchers are illegal.

See, now that's just wrong. How else are we gonna repel the invasion from Idaho?

[rushmc 23]

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Not that interested. A) I have a short enough barrel on my HD 870, and B) I live in the lovely state of California where you check your constitutional rights at the border, and potato launchers are illegal.

The point I make is the one spelled out by that famous quote from Animal Farm. Too many blindly trust "law enforcement" to always do the virtuous thing, be just and protective, when in reality, LE is comprised of humans subject to all human vices and failures, just like the "public".

I gotta ask. Are potato launchers really illegal in CA?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln