Unarmed versus Armed Victims

[billvon 2,989]

>now I have to go look up another new word . . .

a dobleman in this case would be a Mad John Dobleman, an instructor at Byron. However, I don't recommend strangling him, since he organizes some great demo jumps in Montana.

[rehmwa 2]

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>However, I don't recommend strangling him, since he organizes some great demo jumps in Montana.

silly,,,, you can't strangle someone with a gun

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rstanley0312 1]

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>Except you are talking about doing something illegal . . .

Right, in both cases. In a great many cases, it's illegal to drive drunk AND it's illegal to carry a handgun in public.

Does that mean it's wrong to carry handguns in public?

Actually I believe that it is quite common to be able to open carry. The majority of states you can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[georgerussia 0]

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Yeah, nobody but me, sociologists, Congress, the FBI, etc etc etc - damn, George...you're just too smart for all of us.

They never did (nor they tried). It is you who speculated they did, but never provided any evidence to support that.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Oh and George.... I guarantee a seatblet has been used in a murder and so has a fire extinguisher.... I saw it all on CSI

My question was "how many people were murdered with seat belts"?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Anything can and probably has been used to take a human life. Hammers, belts, screw-drivers, pipe wrenches... you name it and somewhere, some time it's been used to kill someone. It all depends on who's hands that item is in. Guns are no different.

We already discussed that. Assuming real world conditions, a nut with a hammer, belt, screw-driver or pipe wrenches would be able to make significantly less damage than a nut with a gun. Cho wouldn't be able to murder 30 people with a hammer. Amy Bishop wouldn't be able to murder three professors with a screwdriver. Without guns the damage they made would be significantly less.

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We have the right to keep and bear arms. We have the right to attend a class and be licensed to carry that gun. How many times have you heard of a licensed gun bearer in trouble because of mis-using his firearm?

Not often (typically news do not mention whether a person committing a crime with a gun was licensed to carry, so it's hard to tell). However since the requirements to get a carry permit typically are significantly more burdensome than requirements to buy a gun it alone would weep out some nutcases. Indeed, requiring better standards to own a gun than just being 21, having no felonies or known mental issues in past and having a credit card would be a step into right direction.

Switzerland is a good example often praised by NRA crowd, but they usually forget to add that everyone from the militia goes through a mandatory training (including recurrency trainings) so the people who keep guns at home have gone through pretty much the same (or more) experience as some concealed holders here in U.S. - but they are not licensed to carry this weapon, only to keep it at home (and transfer it). And it is very hard to get a carry permit there.

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The one's I worry about are those who are not licensed to carry a firearm, have criminal records and 'intend' to use that firearm for no good.

From what I remember most shooting sprees were started by those without criminal records. Cho didn't have a criminal record either. A few more recent examples of idiocy of some gun owners (which may or may not be licensed to carry):

- A couple of idiot parents let some kids playing with their guns, which were loaded, and a kid shot another;
- Another idiot started shooting outside the courthouse and injured a few people before he finally got shot;
- Yet another idiot started shooting outside Capitol building in TX. Fortunately nobody died;
- Yet another idiot got pissed off on his ex, and shot her new boyfriend;
- An idiot teacher shot their colleagues because she didn't get a tenure;

None of those were criminals or proven nutcases, so there was no valid reason to deny them guns.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[masterrig 1]

If, someone wants a gun, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to get one. It's more difficult for an honest person to get a gun than a bad guy. Cho and others weren't paid any attention to and slipped through the cracks. the 'warning signs' were ignored. Stuff happens. To take it out on law abiding citizens who own guns is wrong. There will always be guns and the bad guys will always have the higher fire-power... that's just the way it is.
it's a whole different world out there. More gangs, more whackos and assorted other bad guys. I don't worry about it. I have at least, a fighting chance to defend myself... legally! I'm tired too, of 'minority groups' trying to take my rights away. The way I see it... if someone doesn't like guns... stay away from them but, don't deny a law abiding citizen.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Oh and George.... I guarantee a seatblet has been used in a murder and so has a fire extinguisher.... I saw it all on CSI

My question was "how many people were murdered with seat belts"?

How many people, in the U.S., were killed (intentionally) by means of other than a firearm? Now, compare the two figures, those murdered with guns and those murdered by 'other means'. I think, you'll be surprised.


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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Yeah, nobody but me, sociologists, Congress, the FBI, etc etc etc - damn, George...you're just too smart for all of us.

They never did (nor they tried). It is you who speculated they did, but never provided any evidence to support that.

Just because you won't read them doesn't make them invalid, sorry. Sucks to be you.

However, since you insist that those factors don't matter, why do you keep bringing them up?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Yeah, nobody but me, sociologists, Congress, the FBI, etc etc etc - damn, George...you're just too smart for all of us.

They never did (nor they tried). It is you who speculated they did, but never provided any evidence to support that.

Just because you won't read them doesn't make them invalid, sorry. Sucks to be you.

However, since you insist that those factors don't matter, why do you keep bringing them up?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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How many people, in the U.S., were killed (intentionally) by means of other than a firearm? Now, compare the two figures, those murdered with guns and those murdered by 'other means'. I think, you'll be surprised.


Chuck

He doesn't care about that - only examples of gun owners coming to the rescue of people like him that refuse to protect themselves are acceptable.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterrig 1]

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How many people, in the U.S., were killed (intentionally) by means of other than a firearm? Now, compare the two figures, those murdered with guns and those murdered by 'other means'. I think, you'll be surprised.


Chuck

He doesn't care about that - only examples of gun owners coming to the rescue of people like him that refuse to protect themselves are acceptable.

DOH! I missed that one!


Chuck

[georgerussia 0]

Too bad you did not address any point in my reply, and just brought up a bunch of completely new items.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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DOH! I missed that one!

Because the "only" part is just one of Neal lies.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rhaig 0]

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Too bad you did not address any point in my reply, and just brought up a bunch of completely new items.

there's a whole bunch of that going around.

Now I suggest you guys stop wagging your dicks at each other and go jump out of a plane or something.

Have a nice weekend.

--
Rob

[kelpdiver 2]

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Too bad you did not address any point in my reply, and just brought up a bunch of completely new items.

there's a whole bunch of that going around.

Now I suggest you guys stop wagging your dicks at each other and go jump out of a plane or something.

Have a nice weekend.

It's likely to rain and my car's brakes are seizing up. I may get it back end of tomorrow.

Sucks - I get so few open weekends right now and I keep having these external events get in the way.

[georgerussia 0]

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Now I suggest you guys stop wagging your dicks at each other and go jump out of a plane or something.

Tomorrow forecast is fucking rain - AGAIN so we'll probably end up with more bitching.

Last weekend was good though, I've made four jumps and the weather was nice.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[masterrig 1]

Damned good idea!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Too bad you did not address any point in my reply, and just brought up a bunch of completely new items.

Basically, I did. I just didn't name names. What it boils down to is, there's nothing you or I can do about who gets a gun and who doesn't. Totally banning guns just doesn't work. Stiffer laws don't work. It's like pounding your head on a wall... it fells better when you stop.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Too bad you did not address any point in my reply, and just brought up a bunch of completely new items.

Too bad too, there's nothing either one of us can do about who gets a gun. Seem like also, noone can tell just who or when, someone is going to 'snap'. Poo-poo happens!


Chuck

[georgerussia 0]

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Basically, I did. I just didn't name names. What it boils down to is, there's nothing you or I can do about who gets a gun and who doesn't.

Works very well in Europe though.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[masterrig 1]

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Basically, I did. I just didn't name names. What it boils down to is, there's nothing you or I can do about who gets a gun and who doesn't.

Works very well in Europe though.

That's Europe! This is the U.S.A. What works for some, doesn't always work for others. Is that why we've been reading and hearing of more gun related crimes in places like England? I think, as we say here, 'You're kickin' a dead horse!'


Chuck

[georgerussia 0]

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That's Europe! This is the U.S.A. What works for some, doesn't always work for others.

For example?

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Is that why we've been reading and hearing of more gun related crimes in places like England?

That's because you're reading JohnRich. If you look on official Home Office stats, you'll see that the number of firearms offenses in UK goes DOWN.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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DOH! I missed that one!

Because the "only" part is just one of Neal lies.

Your quote: "Therefore a story of a non-gun owner like me who was "saved" from a crime by a gun owner is relevant."

You're concerned with only two things - violent crimes committed with a gun, and someone ELSE to save your ass if/when it happens to YOU.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Is that why we've been reading and hearing of more gun related crimes in places like England?

That's because you're reading JohnRich. If you look on official Home Office stats, you'll see that the number of firearms offenses in UK goes DOWN.

Guess London isn't listening any better than Washington DC, then:

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Gun crime in London rose by nearly half and rape and homophobic crime rose by about a quarter over the past year, police figures have revealed.

There were 3,306 firearm offences in London in 2009, a rise of 48.7%.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706