mnealtx 0
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That's Europe! This is the U.S.A. What works for some, doesn't always work for others.
For example?
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Europe's gun laws! Guns started in Europe with the advent of gunpowder. That sperad to the U.S. and we began to manufacture guns. With that in mind... Europe started it all!Quote
Is that why we've been reading and hearing of more gun related crimes in places like England?
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That's because you're reading JohnRich. If you look on official Home Office stats, you'll see that the number of firearms offenses in UK goes DOWN.
John is not my only source. He does come across with 'good' information. I guess, it depends on whose stats you read. All I could find was how England's gun-crime rate was way up, last year. What I don't understand is, you are so much against guns yet, you stated that you were 'saved' by a gun owner. I would think, you would have more of an understanding if not appreciation of guns. Ya' got me there!
Chuck
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Is that why we've been reading and hearing of more gun related crimes in places like England?
That's because you're reading JohnRich. If you look on official Home Office stats, you'll see that the number of firearms offenses in UK goes DOWN.
Guess London isn't listening any better than Washington DC, then:QuoteGun crime in London rose by nearly half and rape and homophobic crime rose by about a quarter over the past year, police figures have revealed.
There were 3,306 firearm offences in London in 2009, a rise of 48.7%.
Thanks for the back-up!
Chuck
QuoteQuoteDo you REALLY want me to quote all the times you've said that gun ownership is only valid when it saves your ass (paraphrased)? I can, you know, and it'll just make you look even more foolish.
You said that "only examples of gun owners coming to the rescue of people like him that refuse to protect themselves are acceptable. "
THIS is what you have to prove. You can provide zillions of irrelevant examples (like the one you paraphrased), but it would not matter because you need to prove a very specific thing. The reason you cannot do it because I did not say it like that - this is just how you (mistakenly) interpreted it. But you attributed it to me, and screwed up there.
I'm going to sleep, enjoy your search.
Looks to me like Mike proved his point and submitted valid information. You submit only one source. That was a real nice graph... where does it cover? London, Paris, Rome... all of Europe? Me thinks, you just like to argue!
Chuck
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There is even a nice plot for those who cannot read, on page 8. I'm attaching it for your convenience.
That (poorly attributed, poorly defined) graph shows a constant increase from 1999 till 2006, and then a decline that is still above the 1999 starting point.
Given the fact that laws haven't changed during this time, how does it support your argument? The last legislation was in 1997 in response to Dunblane, and effectively ended private ownership. As the chart your provided shows, there was a pretty marked increase in gun crime nonetheless - appears like it peaked with a ~60% increase, and even with the decline still appears to be 15% over.
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That's straight from the Home Office, George, so your 'cherry-picking' red herring ain't working this time.
"Straight from the Home Office" information shows that the gun crime is DOWN - and it shows it extremely clear on a plot I attached above. You had to do extreme cherry-picking (like pointing out that shotgun crime increased by 2% or 15(!) crimes), and completely ignoring drop in "other/unidentified firearm" to falsely claim that "'decrease' was criminals deciding not to use the fake guns anymore, while use of REAL guns rose. real weapon crime is up".
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What part of "Imitation weapons were used in 1,502 offences in 2008/09, 41 per cent fewer than in the previous year" gave you the difficulty?
What part of "unidentified firearm" drop by 27% and "other firearm" drop by 33% gave you the difficulty so you falsely claimed that "use of real guns rose"? Where did you get the information that all unidentified and other firearms are not real guns?
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