mnealtx 0 #26 March 11, 2010 QuoteYep, small scale pilot programs have been run. And failed. QuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? Same reason why left wingers feel the need to do a hack job on Palin's words. Or Beck's words. Or Limbaugh's words. Quote First the ACORN frame-up, now this. First the "Troopergate" and "Rape tests" frame-ups.... QuoteIt suggests the right doesn't have any real argument so they resort to misrepresenting the words of their opponents. Just like the left does.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #27 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteso with context, I read that as "we'll have to pass it and experience it's outcome before we can pass judgement on it" Judging the success of things based on how they turn out is called "outcomes assessment" and is an effective tool. Yes, provided that the feedback is used constructively. Tell me, if the outcome were to be total disaster, would they admit it was poorly thought out and scrap it, or blame it on the opposing party and spend more money trying to "fix" it? If government was good at assessing the true outcome of something, why are things such a mess? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #28 March 11, 2010 QuoteYes, but the final seven words of the sentence, which gave it context were snipped. Another right wing hatchet job. “We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. “You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation—innovation begins in the classroom—clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon." Maybe the same honorable conservatives who creatively edited the ACORN video? I'd like to touch on the bolded/underlined part there...read as: We're going to tell you what to eat because we know what's good for you. Don't believe me, go to NYC where ingredients in food and food products is already over regulated.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #29 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteYes, but the final seven words of the sentence, which gave it context were snipped. Another right wing hatchet job. “We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. “You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation—innovation begins in the classroom—clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon." Maybe the same honorable conservatives who creatively edited the ACORN video? I'd like to touch on the bolded/underlined part there...read as: We're going to tell you what to eat because we know what's good for you. Don't believe me, go to NYC where ingredients in food and food products is already over regulated. And if you don't, no treatment for you.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #30 March 11, 2010 QuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? I don't think the words at the end of the sentence change them to mean what you assert (outcome assessment). I don't think it changes the meaning at all. You've successfully diverted some on this forum from the idiocy of her statement, but not all.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #31 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteso with context, I read that as "we'll have to pass it and experience it's outcome before we can pass judgement on it" Judging the success of things based on how they turn out is called "outcomes assessment" and is an effective tool. If you believe that our government uses "outcome assessment" to judge the success of things than explain the war on drugs."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #32 March 11, 2010 I guess you're going to have to explain what the "fog of controversy" means. You seem the believe that getting away from it would be a good thing. BTW, when did HC reform become job creation? "and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon." Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #33 March 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote so with context, I read that as "we'll have to pass it and experience it's outcome before we can pass judgement on it" Judging the success of things based on how they turn out is called "outcomes assessment" and is an effective tool. If you believe that our government uses "outcome assessment" to judge the success of things than explain the war on drugs. Strawman - I never said they did... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #34 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? I don't think the words at the end of the sentence change them to mean what you assert (outcome assessment). I don't think it changes the meaning at all. You've successfully diverted some on this forum from the idiocy of her statement, but not all. Then WHY did the right wingers remove them from the video? THEY clearly must have thought the extra words meant something or they wouldn't have hacked them from the sentence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #35 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteYep, small scale pilot programs have been run. And failed. QuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? Same reason why left wingers feel the need to do a hack job on Palin's words. Or Beck's words. Or Limbaugh's words. Cites, please.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #36 March 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote so with context, I read that as "we'll have to pass it and experience it's outcome before we can pass judgement on it" Judging the success of things based on how they turn out is called "outcomes assessment" and is an effective tool. If you believe that our government uses "outcome assessment" to judge the success of things than explain the war on drugs. Strawman - I never said they did I hope this works ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #37 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteYep, small scale pilot programs have been run. And failed. QuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? Same reason why left wingers feel the need to do a hack job on Palin's words. Or Beck's words. Or Limbaugh's words. Cites, please. "I can see Russia from my house" "Tea Bagger" etc etc etcMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #38 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteYes, but the final seven words of the sentence, which gave it context were snipped. Another right wing hatchet job. “We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. “You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation—innovation begins in the classroom—clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon." Maybe the same honorable conservatives who creatively edited the ACORN video? I'd like to touch on the bolded/underlined part there...read as: We're going to tell you what to eat because we know what's good for you. Don't believe me, go to NYC where ingredients in food and food products is already over regulated. And if you don't, no taxpayer-funded treatment for you. Clarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #39 March 11, 2010 QuoteClarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave Wow.....never though I'd hear any lib admit it.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #40 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteClarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave Wow.....never though I'd hear any lib admit it. If you read anything particular "lib" into that, either I worded it incorrectly, or you misread it. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #41 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf it's all so bad, WHY DO RIGHT WINGERS FEEL THE NEED TO DO A HACK JOB ON PELOSI'S WORDS? I don't think the words at the end of the sentence change them to mean what you assert (outcome assessment). I don't think it changes the meaning at all. You've successfully diverted some on this forum from the idiocy of her statement, but not all. Then WHY did the right wingers remove them from the video? THEY clearly must have thought the extra words meant something or they wouldn't have hacked them from the sentence. That's the best you can do? I was expecting you to try and explain how the full context of her statement shows how it wasn't delivered by a half-wit. I think she sounds even more stupid with the rest of the sentence there.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #42 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteClarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave Wow.....never though I'd hear any lib admit it. If you read anything particular "lib" into that, either I worded it incorrectly, or you misread it. Blues, Dave Well Dave, I'd hardly characterize you as a conservative. But let me make sure I understand your post. You don't care if a universal health care program provides coverage for people who, through their own actions have caused their health problem. Am I misinterpreting?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteClarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave Wow.....never though I'd hear any lib admit it. If you read anything particular "lib" into that, either I worded it incorrectly, or you misread it. Blues, Dave Well Dave, I'd hardly characterize you as a conservative. But let me make sure I understand your post. You don't care if a universal health care program provides coverage for people who, through their own actions have caused their health problem. Am I misinterpreting? Yeah...I'm fine with paying for things that concern me, and opposed to funding things that don't. The above are examples of things that should be funded by the people who caused the problems in the first place. And I'd still say I'm more conservative than most posters here, if I thought the words "liberal" and "conservative" had any real meaning around these parts. Unfortunately it appears to me that the average Speaker's Corner definitions are "Liberal = hates Ann Coulter" and "Conservative = hates Bill Maher", in which case I'm far more "socialist" than "fascist". Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #44 March 11, 2010 QuoteYeah...I'm fine with paying for things that concern me, and opposed to funding things that don't. The above are examples of things that should be funded by the people who caused the problems in the first place. Who makes that decision then? Could it be......a panel of some sort? Yea...that's it. We'll call them the "Life Panel".Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #45 March 11, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Clarified...and I'm ok with restricting freebie healthcare to those who a) need it and b) took reasonable steps on their own to prevent the problem. Emphysema treatment for a smoker, cirrhosis treatment for a heavy drinker, angioplasty for a 400 pound person...meh, these are not things that concern me. Blues, Dave Wow.....never though I'd hear any lib admit it. If you read anything particular "lib" into that, either I worded it incorrectly, or you misread it. Blues, Dave Well Dave, I'd hardly characterize you as a conservative. But let me make sure I understand your post. You don't care if a universal health care program provides coverage for people who, through their own actions have caused their health problem. Am I misinterpreting? If only there was a system where people could pay for coverage they wanted/needed vs. a mandatory plan that tries to cover everyone... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #46 March 11, 2010 Socially liberal fiscally conservative cover it? Do whatever the hell you want, but don't expect me to pay for it. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #47 March 11, 2010 Quote Socially liberal fiscally conservative cover it? Do whatever the hell you want, but don't expect me to pay for it. +1Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #48 March 11, 2010 Quote If only there was a system where people could pay for coverage they wanted/needed vs. a mandatory plan that tries to cover everyone... Unfortunately some people can't. My guess is some sort of back-up plan would be beneficial, subject to certain exclusions. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #49 March 11, 2010 Quote Quote Socially liberal fiscally conservative cover it? Do whatever the hell you want, but don't expect me to pay for it. +1 +2 Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #50 March 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteYeah...I'm fine with paying for things that concern me, and opposed to funding things that don't. The above are examples of things that should be funded by the people who caused the problems in the first place. Who makes that decision then? Could it be......a panel of some sort? Yea...that's it. We'll call them the "Life Panel". "Welcome to the healthcare financial assistance program. It says here that you weigh 400 pounds and have higher cholesterol levels than the next three carnies on the list combined. If these conditions still hold true 6 months from now, you will lose eligibility for financial assistance." Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
