turtlespeed 221 #1 March 23, 2010 I will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me -I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #2 March 23, 2010 What bill are you talking about? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #3 March 23, 2010 Quote What bill are you talking about? Don HCI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #4 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - Focus here: http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - Well the meat of this stuff doesn't go into effect until 2014, so hopefully we can begin to turn the tide this November following to 2012. Even then though, I don't see this actually being repealed. Washington has never given up a tax or "power" in my lifetime. My partner and I will be discussing this in the near future (we're in construction/heavy civil also) and how to structure our companies ahead of the train-wreck to come.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #6 March 23, 2010 If you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #7 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - Well the meat of this stuff doesn't go into effect until 2014 2014? I"m so disgusted with the whole thing I didn't even want to read it, but what's interesting is thats the same year speculators estimate the downfall of the US Government as we know it.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #8 March 23, 2010 QuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. You can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. If an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymiles 3 #9 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. Wow, that was close, you almost over reacted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites funjumper101 15 #10 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!! Help me, help me!!!! The existing "healthcare" system is broken. Seriously broken. The resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. The smartest and most logical thing to do for health care is to transition to a single payer system. The end result would be an economic boom. No more being a wage slave to a job you hate, just because the benefits are really good. People who want to start businesses would have the freedom to do so, as they would not have to worry about health care for themselves and their families. Employer/employee negotations could go back to being mostly earnings based, instead of "compensation" based, as in excessive health insurance costs forcing down net income. It isn't like we aren't spending the money already. Losing 1/3 of the health insurance premiums to "overhead" isn't sustainable. What it comes down to is simple - How will the money flow? Right now, the majority of the health care $$ flows from the public, to private organizations that make take a big cut of the $$ to run themselves and provide a "good return to their investors", then the leftovers go to the medical service providers. The $$ should go straght out of pocket via taxes and go to pay the medical services providers directly via a Medicare for all system. The system exists, it works, and people understand it. Simple, straightforward, and quite doable. Get on board with single payer and maybe you might be able to start another company some day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #11 March 23, 2010 Quote I will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - Bongs just go on sale? So the mortgage mess that crippled the housing indusrty and virtually shut down the homebuilding industry hasn't been the cause? BTW, your competition will love you not being in their way, as they will forge fwd. Explain how so many European companie make it with payrol taxes that dwarf ours and their currency often kills ours? Quit whining, your party has instituted policies that have really fucked us hard, we're still here. Hell, Reagan, Bush, Bush own 2/3 of teh debt and the 2 runs inherited stable debt pictures, left a mess, so really, they own virtually all of the debt but you say that's not a biggy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #12 March 23, 2010 >but what's interesting is thats the same year speculators estimate the >downfall of the US Government as we know it. They moved it from 2009? It seems like only yesterday that right wingers were predicting the end of the US as soon as Obama took office. Now it's 2014? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #13 March 23, 2010 QuoteSo the mortgage mess that crippled the housing indusrty and virtually shut down the homebuilding industry hasn't been the cause? Partially correct-between the Barney and Nancy Comedy Hour, it's pretty much fucked.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #14 March 23, 2010 QuoteThe resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. Resistance? Sure about that? Looks like both sides were on the take, with a few more Dems than Reps. Insurance - Money to Congress McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,917,103 Obama, Barack (D) $2,505,802 7 of the top 10 and 12 of the top 20 are Democrats Health Professionals - Money to Congress Obama, Barack (D) $12,102,904 5 of the top 10 and 8 of the top 20 are Democrats Health Services/HMOs - Money to Congress: Obama, Barack (D) $1,483,372 6 of the top 10, and 10 of the top 20 are Democrats QuoteThe smartest and most logical thing to do for health care is to transition to a single payer system. Yes, that works so well for Medicare - you know, run by the gov't, refuses more claims than the private insurance, and due to have a half TRILLION dollars in 'fraud and waste' cut out of it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #15 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. So what is changing? QuoteYou can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. I work with hundreds of laborers and operators doing Davis-Bacon work for dozens of small businesses. Every one of them already has healthcare coverage offered by either their employer or their union, as they should at that level of employment. Frankly, if a company doing Davis-Bacon work can't price healthcare coverage into their contracts, they're probably doing it wrong. QuoteIf an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out. So those companies who can't compete fail. It's unfortunate, but it's always been that way. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #16 March 23, 2010 Quote The resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. You seem to think that legislation = reform, or at the very least, that the government can't make the situation any worse than it is. Can you explain how you came to those conclusions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #17 March 23, 2010 Yep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites regulator 0 #18 March 23, 2010 While I'm not the owner of any company, I do work in IT and I terminate people's accounts and there are many term notices I get that are for two or three weeks in the future. Many of these people are already fired and don't know it yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #19 March 23, 2010 QuoteWhile I'm not the owner of any company, I do work in IT and I terminate people's accounts and there are many term notices I get that are for two or three weeks in the future. Many of these people are already fired and don't know it yet. Because, ya know, nobody was getting fired before this passed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #20 March 23, 2010 QuoteYep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! Yep Driven by health care insurance stocks Imagine that"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #21 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. So what is changing? Exactly. QuoteQuoteYou can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. I work with hundreds of laborers and operators doing Davis-Bacon work for dozens of small businesses. Every one of them already has healthcare coverage offered by either their employer or their union, as they should at that level of employment. Frankly, if a company doing Davis-Bacon work can't price healthcare coverage into their contracts, they're probably doing it wrong. That's part of the fringe. Many companies, in an attempt to keep their guys working, try to absorb some of those costs to get the edge in a competing low-bid environment. You're also assuming that those employees are not contributing to their healthcare premiums. Not every company is a union environment, and a guarantee that those small businesses are not footing 100% of the bill. QuoteQuoteIf an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out. So those companies who can't compete fail. It's unfortunate, but it's always been that way. Blues, Dave No argument there, but for the government to create the conditions that potentially force an adverse circumstance on small business? That's over the top. The "new" number one priority was going to be getting the economy moving again. Only to pull another 180, tell the press in Asia that the number one priority is healthcare, and that was why his trip to Asia was delayed/now more or less canceled. What's he going to do now? He can't cut taxes now, gotta pay for the new entitlement. Can't do another jobs bill, gotta pay for the new entitlement. This trillion dollar baby has locked him.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #22 March 23, 2010 QuoteYep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! The Markets work much like the religion of Global Warming...there is a cooling tread coming, I'm sure of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #23 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - OMG ITS A SIGN OF ARMEGEDDON FOR SURE.. IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,027 #24 March 23, 2010 Quote Quote Yep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! Yep Driven by health care insurance stocks Imagine that FAIL! How many health insurance stocks in the DOW (UP 102.94 today), Marc?OK, hint for you, here's the list: MMM 3M Co 82.35 +0.51 +0.62% 18.2 4.2M -0.39% AA Alcoa Inc 14.50 +0.16 +1.12% NM 28.5M -10.05% AXP American Express Co 41.24 +0.16 +0.39% 26.8 8.6M +1.78% T AT&T Inc 26.55 +0.15 +0.57% 12.5 18.1M -5.28% BAC Bank of America Corp 17.13 +0.17 +1.00% NM 131.2M +13.75% BA Boeing Co 72.18 +0.27 +0.38% 38.6 5.0M +33.35% CAT Caterpillar Inc 62.41 +2.46 +4.10% 43.6 14.3M +9.51% CVX Chevron Corp 74.77 +0.31 +0.42% 14.3 8.0M -2.88% CSCO Cisco Systems Inc 26.64 +0.36 +1.37% 25.6 48.8M +11.28% KO Coca-Cola Co 55.30 +0.76 +1.39% 18.9 9.5M -2.98% DD E I du Pont de Nemours and Co 38.31 +0.52 +1.38% 20.0 10.6M +13.78% XOM Exxon Mobil Corp 66.95 -0.02 -0.03% 16.8 24.8M -1.82% GE General Electric Co 18.33 +0.26 +1.44% 17.8 107.6M +21.15% HPQ Hewlett-Packard Co 53.15 +0.20 +0.38% 16.1 9.7M +3.18% HD Home Depot Inc 32.59 -0.08 -0.24% 21.0 11.5M +12.65% NTC Intel Corp 22.67 +0.4325 +1.94% 29.4 64.7M +11.14% IBM International Business Machine... 129.37 +1.39 +1.09% 12.9 6.0M -1.17% JNJ Johnson & Johnson 65.36 +0.26 +0.40% 14.9 9.5M +1.47% JPM JPMorgan Chase & Co 44.58 +0.84 +1.92% 19.9 33.7M +6.98% KFT Kraft Foods Inc 30.78 +1.05 +3.53% 15.2 28.2M +13.25% MCD McDonald's Corp 67.35 +0.34 +0.51% 16.4 8.1M +7.86% MRK Merck & Co Inc 38.50 +0.20 +0.52% 6.8 12.3M +5.36% MSFT Microsoft Corp 29.88 +0.28 +0.95% 16.5 42.0M -1.97% PFE Pfizer Inc 17.54 +0.39 +2.27% 14.3 73.9M -3.57% PG Procter & Gamble Co 64.53 +0.65 +1.02% 17.9 11.8M +6.43% TRV Travelers Companies Inc 53.90 +0.51 +0.96% 8.5 3.2M +8.10% UTX United Technologies Corp 73.09 +0.48 +0.66% 17.7 5.0M +5.30% VZ Verizon Communications Inc 30.98 +0.33 +1.08% 24.0 14.4M -6.49% WMT Wal-Mart Stores Inc 55.89 +0.27 +0.49% 15.0 9.4M +4.57% DIS Walt Disney Co 34.01 +0.06 +0.18% 19.4 7.0M +5.46%... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #25 March 23, 2010 >I will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. Good for you! That will show that fuckhead Obama; fire all your employees, go on welfare and spend the rest of your life in blissful victimhood. You'll be in good company. >The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. I hear that all the hospitals will close and that skydiving will be ended by this bill as well. (I didn't see it in the bill itself, but Glenn Beck just said that on the TV.) And of course everyone's grandmothers will be killed by the Obama death boards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Gawain 0 #8 March 23, 2010 QuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. You can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. If an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymiles 3 #9 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. Wow, that was close, you almost over reacted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #10 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!! Help me, help me!!!! The existing "healthcare" system is broken. Seriously broken. The resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. The smartest and most logical thing to do for health care is to transition to a single payer system. The end result would be an economic boom. No more being a wage slave to a job you hate, just because the benefits are really good. People who want to start businesses would have the freedom to do so, as they would not have to worry about health care for themselves and their families. Employer/employee negotations could go back to being mostly earnings based, instead of "compensation" based, as in excessive health insurance costs forcing down net income. It isn't like we aren't spending the money already. Losing 1/3 of the health insurance premiums to "overhead" isn't sustainable. What it comes down to is simple - How will the money flow? Right now, the majority of the health care $$ flows from the public, to private organizations that make take a big cut of the $$ to run themselves and provide a "good return to their investors", then the leftovers go to the medical service providers. The $$ should go straght out of pocket via taxes and go to pay the medical services providers directly via a Medicare for all system. The system exists, it works, and people understand it. Simple, straightforward, and quite doable. Get on board with single payer and maybe you might be able to start another company some day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #11 March 23, 2010 Quote I will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - Bongs just go on sale? So the mortgage mess that crippled the housing indusrty and virtually shut down the homebuilding industry hasn't been the cause? BTW, your competition will love you not being in their way, as they will forge fwd. Explain how so many European companie make it with payrol taxes that dwarf ours and their currency often kills ours? Quit whining, your party has instituted policies that have really fucked us hard, we're still here. Hell, Reagan, Bush, Bush own 2/3 of teh debt and the 2 runs inherited stable debt pictures, left a mess, so really, they own virtually all of the debt but you say that's not a biggy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #12 March 23, 2010 >but what's interesting is thats the same year speculators estimate the >downfall of the US Government as we know it. They moved it from 2009? It seems like only yesterday that right wingers were predicting the end of the US as soon as Obama took office. Now it's 2014? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #13 March 23, 2010 QuoteSo the mortgage mess that crippled the housing indusrty and virtually shut down the homebuilding industry hasn't been the cause? Partially correct-between the Barney and Nancy Comedy Hour, it's pretty much fucked.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #14 March 23, 2010 QuoteThe resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. Resistance? Sure about that? Looks like both sides were on the take, with a few more Dems than Reps. Insurance - Money to Congress McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,917,103 Obama, Barack (D) $2,505,802 7 of the top 10 and 12 of the top 20 are Democrats Health Professionals - Money to Congress Obama, Barack (D) $12,102,904 5 of the top 10 and 8 of the top 20 are Democrats Health Services/HMOs - Money to Congress: Obama, Barack (D) $1,483,372 6 of the top 10, and 10 of the top 20 are Democrats QuoteThe smartest and most logical thing to do for health care is to transition to a single payer system. Yes, that works so well for Medicare - you know, run by the gov't, refuses more claims than the private insurance, and due to have a half TRILLION dollars in 'fraud and waste' cut out of it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #15 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. So what is changing? QuoteYou can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. I work with hundreds of laborers and operators doing Davis-Bacon work for dozens of small businesses. Every one of them already has healthcare coverage offered by either their employer or their union, as they should at that level of employment. Frankly, if a company doing Davis-Bacon work can't price healthcare coverage into their contracts, they're probably doing it wrong. QuoteIf an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out. So those companies who can't compete fail. It's unfortunate, but it's always been that way. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #16 March 23, 2010 Quote The resistance to ANY reform, no matter how small, was funded by the health care companies via the senators they own, and the astroturf organizations that the sheeple bought into. You seem to think that legislation = reform, or at the very least, that the government can't make the situation any worse than it is. Can you explain how you came to those conclusions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #17 March 23, 2010 Yep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #18 March 23, 2010 While I'm not the owner of any company, I do work in IT and I terminate people's accounts and there are many term notices I get that are for two or three weeks in the future. Many of these people are already fired and don't know it yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 March 23, 2010 QuoteWhile I'm not the owner of any company, I do work in IT and I terminate people's accounts and there are many term notices I get that are for two or three weeks in the future. Many of these people are already fired and don't know it yet. Because, ya know, nobody was getting fired before this passed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #20 March 23, 2010 QuoteYep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! Yep Driven by health care insurance stocks Imagine that"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #21 March 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you assume that healthcare is something your employees were already getting, with the money you gave them, then all you're doing is moving the dollars around. Cut their pay by $500/month and provide them $500/month in healthcare coverage instead. Blues, Dave It's still overhead dude. For small businesses, and employer contributed plans, the employee is still forking out close to $500/mo. to cover a family of four or five...that's with the employer paying to the benefit as well. So what is changing? Exactly. QuoteQuoteYou can't cut their pay because many contracts require wages as determined by the Davis-Bacon act, prevailing wage, plus fringes. So, a lot of laborers, operators and superintendents won't fall within the salary range of whatever handout the government offers either. To cover this, companies will have to add to their Overhead and Profit margins...those added costs will also increase the costs for performance bonds as well. I work with hundreds of laborers and operators doing Davis-Bacon work for dozens of small businesses. Every one of them already has healthcare coverage offered by either their employer or their union, as they should at that level of employment. Frankly, if a company doing Davis-Bacon work can't price healthcare coverage into their contracts, they're probably doing it wrong. That's part of the fringe. Many companies, in an attempt to keep their guys working, try to absorb some of those costs to get the edge in a competing low-bid environment. You're also assuming that those employees are not contributing to their healthcare premiums. Not every company is a union environment, and a guarantee that those small businesses are not footing 100% of the bill. QuoteQuoteIf an outfit is scraping by, keeping the lights on until the economy recovers fully, this could price them out of the market as their liquidity, profitability and contracts on the books affects their ability to get future bonding....no bonding, no work = lights out. So those companies who can't compete fail. It's unfortunate, but it's always been that way. Blues, Dave No argument there, but for the government to create the conditions that potentially force an adverse circumstance on small business? That's over the top. The "new" number one priority was going to be getting the economy moving again. Only to pull another 180, tell the press in Asia that the number one priority is healthcare, and that was why his trip to Asia was delayed/now more or less canceled. What's he going to do now? He can't cut taxes now, gotta pay for the new entitlement. Can't do another jobs bill, gotta pay for the new entitlement. This trillion dollar baby has locked him.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #22 March 23, 2010 QuoteYep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! The Markets work much like the religion of Global Warming...there is a cooling tread coming, I'm sure of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 March 23, 2010 QuoteI will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. I'll simply go on welfare and all you poor fuckers that wanted this can pay for my ass to sit home and do nothing. Have fun with that. The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. prices to recoup fines and taxes will drive construction costs so high that very few will be able to afford to build new or even remodel. Have fun supporting me - OMG ITS A SIGN OF ARMEGEDDON FOR SURE.. IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 March 23, 2010 Quote Quote Yep, strong negative reaction from the business community - just look at the S&P, DOW and NASDAQ. Oh, wait, they're all UP! Yep Driven by health care insurance stocks Imagine that FAIL! How many health insurance stocks in the DOW (UP 102.94 today), Marc?OK, hint for you, here's the list: MMM 3M Co 82.35 +0.51 +0.62% 18.2 4.2M -0.39% AA Alcoa Inc 14.50 +0.16 +1.12% NM 28.5M -10.05% AXP American Express Co 41.24 +0.16 +0.39% 26.8 8.6M +1.78% T AT&T Inc 26.55 +0.15 +0.57% 12.5 18.1M -5.28% BAC Bank of America Corp 17.13 +0.17 +1.00% NM 131.2M +13.75% BA Boeing Co 72.18 +0.27 +0.38% 38.6 5.0M +33.35% CAT Caterpillar Inc 62.41 +2.46 +4.10% 43.6 14.3M +9.51% CVX Chevron Corp 74.77 +0.31 +0.42% 14.3 8.0M -2.88% CSCO Cisco Systems Inc 26.64 +0.36 +1.37% 25.6 48.8M +11.28% KO Coca-Cola Co 55.30 +0.76 +1.39% 18.9 9.5M -2.98% DD E I du Pont de Nemours and Co 38.31 +0.52 +1.38% 20.0 10.6M +13.78% XOM Exxon Mobil Corp 66.95 -0.02 -0.03% 16.8 24.8M -1.82% GE General Electric Co 18.33 +0.26 +1.44% 17.8 107.6M +21.15% HPQ Hewlett-Packard Co 53.15 +0.20 +0.38% 16.1 9.7M +3.18% HD Home Depot Inc 32.59 -0.08 -0.24% 21.0 11.5M +12.65% NTC Intel Corp 22.67 +0.4325 +1.94% 29.4 64.7M +11.14% IBM International Business Machine... 129.37 +1.39 +1.09% 12.9 6.0M -1.17% JNJ Johnson & Johnson 65.36 +0.26 +0.40% 14.9 9.5M +1.47% JPM JPMorgan Chase & Co 44.58 +0.84 +1.92% 19.9 33.7M +6.98% KFT Kraft Foods Inc 30.78 +1.05 +3.53% 15.2 28.2M +13.25% MCD McDonald's Corp 67.35 +0.34 +0.51% 16.4 8.1M +7.86% MRK Merck & Co Inc 38.50 +0.20 +0.52% 6.8 12.3M +5.36% MSFT Microsoft Corp 29.88 +0.28 +0.95% 16.5 42.0M -1.97% PFE Pfizer Inc 17.54 +0.39 +2.27% 14.3 73.9M -3.57% PG Procter & Gamble Co 64.53 +0.65 +1.02% 17.9 11.8M +6.43% TRV Travelers Companies Inc 53.90 +0.51 +0.96% 8.5 3.2M +8.10% UTX United Technologies Corp 73.09 +0.48 +0.66% 17.7 5.0M +5.30% VZ Verizon Communications Inc 30.98 +0.33 +1.08% 24.0 14.4M -6.49% WMT Wal-Mart Stores Inc 55.89 +0.27 +0.49% 15.0 9.4M +4.57% DIS Walt Disney Co 34.01 +0.06 +0.18% 19.4 7.0M +5.46%... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #25 March 23, 2010 >I will have to shut my company down shortly because of this bill. Good for you! That will show that fuckhead Obama; fire all your employees, go on welfare and spend the rest of your life in blissful victimhood. You'll be in good company. >The construction industry will virtually shut down very soon because of this. I hear that all the hospitals will close and that skydiving will be ended by this bill as well. (I didn't see it in the bill itself, but Glenn Beck just said that on the TV.) And of course everyone's grandmothers will be killed by the Obama death boards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
