The Minimum Wage

[rhaig 0]

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have received much less support from economists than from the general public.

Because inflation either cancels the gain out or gives them even less buying power,

nope

while I don't have either economic studies or alternet crap, I agree that there would be some negative economic impact from doubling the minimum wage.

Inccreasing MW, I believe, would result in shops that use MW employees in raising their prices. They'd have to recoup the cost somehow. They might lay people off, but wouldn't want to have full-time employees that they'd have to then cover benefits for.

MW employees, because of their lack of cashflow, are more likely to shop at bargain stores, that happen to be the same stores that use MW employees. I can't (and won't) say that doubling the MW will eliminate or reduce buying power of MW employees, but I won't put all that money in their pockets. That seems certain.

It would take that money out of the pockets of the business owner or other consumers. That much IS certain as it has to come from somewhere. In the process, it would reduce the buying power of those other consumers through increase of costs.

Adding up all those factors, increasing MW would hurt small businesses that pay lower than what the new MW would be. It would hurt consumers of those business's products through increased prices of those products. It would benefit MW employees, but not to the same factor of the change of their wage.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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being stupid isn't a genetic thing you know
(do you have the same IQ as your parents for instance)

nature vs nurture.

you may have the brain to be very productive in society, and have a high IQ. But if you never learn the habits to promote that behavior, but instead learn habits to live off of the government, then the behavior can become self perpetuating.

--
Rob

[lawrocket 3]

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[Reply]Because inflation either cancels the gain out or gives them even less buying power,

nope

[Reply]while I don't have either economic studies or alternet crap, I agree that there would be some negative economic impact from doubling the minimum wage.

Inccreasing MW, I believe, would result in shops that use MW employees in raising their prices. They'd have to recoup the cost somehow.


Absolutely. The left forget about things like marginal utility and marginal cost. Lefty economists do not - leftists do.

you are correct. Increases in minimum wage usually result in inflation and layoffs. if I've got $60 per hour for wages, and I've got six employees at $10 per hour, raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour means I can now afford four employees. Since I am producing fewer goods or less service, I am making much less money with the same costs.

Therefore, I raise my prices or I lay off one or more additional employees to keep some profitability.

So the minimum wage means that profitability means the layoffs of three employees and an increase in prices for the fewer goods and services that I can provide.

And then I will be called the bad guy for not being able toi afford the employees.

Of course, the companies with the argest amount of money can afford to go elsewhere in the world.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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If I've got $60 per hour for wages, and I've got six employees at $10 per hour, raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour means I can now afford four employees. Since I am producing fewer goods or less service, I am making much less money with the same costs.

Therefore, I raise my prices or I lay off one or more additional employees to keep some profitability.

that's easy to fix, we just pass a law forbidding you from laying off those 2 (and then 3rd) employees

AND, in DD's world, once you die, we just give the company to those employees anyway - 6 rich employees, and the bonus is the wealthy exploiter (you) also dies

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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If I've got $60 per hour for wages, and I've got six employees at $10 per hour, raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour means I can now afford four employees. Since I am producing fewer goods or less service, I am making much less money with the same costs.

Therefore, I raise my prices or I lay off one or more additional employees to keep some profitability.

that's easy to fix, we just pass a law forbidding you from laying off those 2 (and then 3rd) employees

AND, in DD's world, once you die, we just give the company to those employees anyway - 6 rich employees, and the bonus is the wealthy exploiter (you) also dies

Oh, you're GOOD...

(but you forgot the paranthetical comment with your smiley)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[pirana 0]

Easy solution: Just print up a wheelbarrow of $100 bills for every citizen.

What could go wrong?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[champu 1]

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...needs to be doubled to get the economy stabilised

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...the focus changed to helping people, especially families, become more self sufficient... ...to redefine the wage structure politically to achieve a socially preferable distribution of income.

Families that are "more self sufficient" and a "socially preferable distribution of income" are dangerously ill-defined. So cut the crap and tell me, what is your list of things that society should guarantee everyone is able to afford? And what things (presumably a subset of this list) do you think should just be provided by the government no matter what?

The last time you started this thread Quade pointed out that telling ourselves, "we can all grow up to be presidents and astronauts" is a lie. I agreed but suggested a worse lie is telling ourselves, "We can all get 9-5 jobs doing anything we want, wherever we want, and expect to own a house with a white picket fence and have 2.4 kids."

[champu 1]

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I never understood why it is politically palatable to pay MORONS to have more children. Tax breaks for more than 2 children????

Parents aside, the 3rd-and-later kids are innocent: they didn't ask to be born, and can't fend for themselves. More money staying in the family puts more food in those kids' mouths.

Potentially stupid idea that I fully admit I haven't thought about for more than a minute or so...

Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support, take the kid away and give it to a foster home. The innocent kid gets taken care of and the parents can't abuse tax incentives.

[shropshire 0]

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Oy!!! Grrrrrrr - just you wait

Had to do it!!!

Maybe so... but I still hate ya.

.... next time that you transit through the U.K come and stay at ours - get your soggy veggie fix here

That's just a couple more weeks, but only for overnight - get into LHR at 2030 on the 21st, leave at 1030 the next day.

Shame - we're just too far to get back to LHR in time ... Get a later flight one time and the beers/diner is on us.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rehmwa 2]

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Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support,

that's a loaded item,

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shropshire 0]

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Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support,

that's a loaded item,

or better yet ... make having a war that the country can't afford a criminal act - then there would be loads of money in the coffers to look after the folks in the home country - simple eh?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,072]

>The sweat shops employed large numbers of women and young
>workers, paying them what were considered to be substandard wages.

And made the US the greatest economic power in the world, which led to the highest standard of living in the world (ironically.)

>Over time, the focus changed to helping people, especially families,
>become more self sufficient.

While denying others employment.

Companies have a limited amount of money to work with. They can hire ten people for X salary or five people for 2X salary. While the 2X salary is great for the five people working, it really sucks for the five who were fired to achieve that.

[champu 1]

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Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support,

that's a loaded item,

Oh absolutely... hence my disclaimer at the beginning of that post.

But if people complain that the devil is in the details I can always assert that any possible issues could and would be worked out just fine, and conclude that my original idea was both infallible and absolutely necessary.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support,

that's a loaded item,

Oh absolutely... hence my disclaimer at the beginning of that post.

But if people complain that the devil is in the details I can always assert that any possible issues could and would be worked out just fine, and conclude that my original idea was both infallible and absolutely necessary.

Oh, well. In that case, we should process all confiscated children into food for the rest of us. The devil's in the details, of course; but damn, the idea's infallible.

[Bolas 5]

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Redefine child abuse to include having a kid you can't support,

that's a loaded item,

Oh absolutely... hence my disclaimer at the beginning of that post.

But if people complain that the devil is in the details I can always assert that any possible issues could and would be worked out just fine, and conclude that my original idea was both infallible and absolutely necessary.

Oh, well. In that case, we should process all confiscated children into food for the rest of us. The devil's in the details, of course; but damn, the idea's infallible.

No, you confiscate the adults and feed them to them to the others, The confiscated children are a food delicacy and sold at a premium to pay for the whole operation.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Doubled? Why double it?

the value of labour needs to be increased to balance the economy out. doubling it should do the trick
(not saying tripling - just doubling. then hold the value against inflation)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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>The sweat shops employed large numbers of women and young
>workers, paying them what were considered to be substandard wages.

And made the US the greatest economic power in the world, which led to the highest standard of living in the world (ironically.)

having an entire continent at their disposal and the cutting edge technology of the european industrial revolution led to the us becoming the greatest economic power in the world

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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the value of labour needs to be increased to balance the economy out. doubling it should do the trick

Whatever you say comrade. But this is not the line for bread.
It is the line for shoes. The bread line starts 3 blocks that way.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[dreamdancer 0]

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Companies have a limited amount of money to work with. They can hire ten people for X salary or five people for 2X salary. While the 2X salary is great for the five people working, it really sucks for the five who were fired to achieve that.

can't they borrow? companies do that all the time you know
(they use things called banks)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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the value of labour needs to be increased to balance the economy out. doubling it should do the trick

Whatever you say comrade. But this is not the line for bread.
It is the line for shoes. The bread line starts 3 blocks that way.

you better start walking then

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rhaig 0]

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Companies have a limited amount of money to work with. They can hire ten people for X salary or five people for 2X salary. While the 2X salary is great for the five people working, it really sucks for the five who were fired to achieve that.

can't they borrow? companies do that all the time you know
(they use things called banks)

yeah... borrowing didn't hurt our economy any at all over the past 20 years did it?

--
Rob

[billvon 3,072]

>not saying tripling - just doubling. then hold the value against inflation

Doubling wages would cause rapid inflation, since average income is a primary driver of inflation. Prices would rise since many people could now afford more pricey goods. This would reduce their purchasing power, so you'd have to double wages again. This process is called "the price/wage spiral."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I am not the one calling for policies that will bankrupt businesses.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,072]

>having an entire continent at their disposal and the cutting edge
>technology of the european industrial revolution led to the us
>becoming the greatest economic power in the world . . .

We still have that, but are now losing that economic power to people who pay lower wages (i.e. China) and therefore out compete us.

>can't they borrow? companies do that all the time you know

True! If that's a solution, though, then an even easier solution is to cut people's wages and just let _them_ borrow. They will then have all the money they need.

[champu 1]

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Oh, well. In that case, we should process all confiscated children into food for the rest of us. The devil's in the details, of course; but damn, the idea's infallible.

See, that's how we need to operate to come up with great outside the box ideas like this one!

...now we just have the trivial task of convincing people they'd have a happier and fuller life as someone else's food.