Well done america, what a great role model you are...

[FreeflyChile 0]

This is completely outside of the discussion of whether the pilots were justified, etc., but after watching that video my first thought was "wow, if you showed this to me outside of context i would have thought it was Call of Duty" - I play a lot of games, but really had forgotten how close they got to reality - especially the level where it looks like that.

[434 2]

Did they have weapons?

[kawisixer01 0]

Many of the people here responding act as if countries such as Iraq are as civilized as the US, and that they are playing fair. Just because we would never consider putting children into war and using them as combatants, doesn't mean other countries place the same value on a childrens lives or feel it's morally wrong to include children in war. In many countries it's common to try to use children as combatants. They do this for a reason and you all are exhibiting it. The first reason is that they know that a soldier from a country like the US will hesitate when faced with a child combatant....usually a hesitation long enough to get himself and his comrades killed. Secondly they know that we are a more cicilized (weak in their eyes?) society that will respond with outcry if it is revealed that our military killed children. Thus they are successful in demoralizing the enemy and eroding support in the homeland for military action. I'll guarantee you when an american child is killed in a terrorist act there is no controversey or tears shed in the middle east, there's typically quite the opposite. I guess you all forgot the post 9/11 vids of all the poeple in other countries partying and dancing around in celebration. I have friends returning from Iraq telling stories of children walking around with AK-47's and RPG's over their shoulder. One told a story of a child walking up to a check point and stabbing a guard in the groin, cutting his femoral artery and very nearly killing him. Maybe read up a little on the subject before having a kneejerk reaction? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children[url]

[Feeblemind 1]

Thank God we didn't have video cameras, live tv and You-tube during world war II or we would all be speaking German or Japanese War is an ugly business and unfortunately there is collateral damage. Granted some in the military act like jackasses, but the greater 99% do not, thank god our community is represented 100% of the time in a positive light

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[airdvr 210]

It's an ugly video...war is an ugly thing. Were mistakes made? Probably. Happens more than you'd think. However, some on here just look for anything they can find to make us out in a bad light. Congratulations, you found another one. And because of this video our secret is out. It's true. We are the worst humans on earth and we should be irradicated. We have no redeeming social value.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,447]

Fine. Now imagine it's the Japanese saying that about the Phillipines after they invaded, rather than the Americans about Iraq.

Because we invaded Iraq. They didn't invade us. They're 8000 miles away from us. They have less than 10% of our population.

Their leader was a really bad dude who had pissed us off. But that still doesn't put them close to us. And they had nothing to do with 9/11 (one of our supposed reasons), and Al Qaeda didn't announce themselves as being active there until a year after we invaded.

Normally, only bullies care about someone disrespecting them.

Yeah, it's war. But we fucking started it. That doesn't mean that our soldiers are all evil or anything else. It's got to be a really, really tough situation -- the extent of my first-hand knowledge probably consists of having watched the street scenes in "The Hurt Locker." Our soldiers are in a tough situation, and our country put them there.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

>Group of men, some of them carrying rifles = legitimate targets. End of story.

I'll remember that the next time someone whines about gun rights.

Bit of a difference between AKs and RPGs just outside of Sadr City and gun rights isn't there?

It's a war zone. If you carry weapons in a war zone you tend to be a target.
If you approach those who were carrying weapons that were just attacked, you tend to be a target.

And FWIW, carry classes usually spend a fair amount of time on how to handle the weapon after a shooting situation so that you don't get shot by the cops that are responding.
If you are holding a weapon at the scene of a shooting, the responding officers usually aren't willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as to being a good guy or a bad guy.

People have been shot and killed by the cops after a legit self defense shooting because they forgot this simple concept.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

>Group of men, some of them carrying rifles = legitimate targets. End of story.

I'll remember that the next time someone whines about gun rights.

It was in a combat zone, Bill.
You know the difference.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[434 2]

There where no Norwegians who played by the rules when we where invaded by the Germans. Just small groups who blow up things, and hide among the civil people.

Who are your country fighting and for what. That is what you have to ask yourselves. Not how they fight.

Afghanistan and Irak is two lost wars! Can not win!

[billvon 2,994]

>Did they have weapons?

Some had weapons, some had cameras.

[billvon 2,994]

>Bit of a difference between AKs and RPGs just outside of Sadr City and
>gun rights isn't there?

Not really. If you can be killed if someone thinks you are carrying a gun in the place you live, you can be killed for carrying a gun in the place you live. (And since some of those "AK's and RPG's" turned out to be cameras, I don't believe they knew what they were carrying.)

>It's a war zone.

It's a suburb.

>And FWIW, carry classes usually spend a fair amount of time on how to
>handle the weapon after a shooting situation so that you don't get shot by
>the cops that are responding.

So once the cops have opened fire on you, how do you respond? Because some of those guys were trying to crawl away after being shot at the first time, and they opened up on them again. What should they have done?

>If you are holding a weapon at the scene of a shooting, the responding
>officers usually aren't willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as to being
>a good guy or a bad guy.

OK. So if you ever draw your weapon, being killed is justifiable? Again, I will remember that the next time someone whines about "their right to defend themselves."

[Skyrad 0]

In many countries children do carry rifles and weapons of various types, that doesn't make them all terrorists and killers, it has to be viewed in cultural perspective. look at the pictures below and ask yourself which is the terrorist then ask yourself what made you decided...

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[lawrocket 3]

There are a couple of things going on here:

These pilots and gunners and their commanders aren't the deviant wankers they are accused of being.

These pilots and gunners and their commanders aren't the fine patriots who performed a noble act in this episode.

These pilots and gunners and their commanders are simply people - human beings. They were sent to a war they didn't start. Yes, they volunteered and were trained. They operated under the Rules of Engagement that they themselves did not write.

And as humans they make mistakes. They err. They are scared. They put their asses out there. They also live with the consequences of doing what they were sent to do and to deal with the devastation of mistakes that kill.

The US armed services provide top notch training on how to be an effective killer. They provide top notch positive reinforcement to those who exercise restraint. They do a lousy job in teaching people to deal with what they did in theater.

These servicemen are neither heroes nor villains. They were doing what they were told and with the information available. It's the tough part - they weren't out searching for an atrocity to commit.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

There where no Norwegians who played by the rules when we where invaded by the Germans. Just small groups who blow up things, and hide among the civil people.

Who are your country fighting and for what. That is what you have to ask yourselves. Not how they fight.

Afghanistan and Irak is two lost wars! Can not win!

We can't win because we're trying to fight a politically correct war. The press definitely isn't helping. Meanwhile, they arm children, use women as bombs, etc. etc. They probably even make terrorists that look like press people.

If one is in a war zone and around people with weapons, it's not unreasonable for a large camera to be mistaken for an rpg.

War is hell. The longer it lasts the more civilian casualties there will be so the best method is to let it be known any place that harbors terrorists will be destroyed then do just that.

Rather quickly they'd have no where left to hide.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

War is hell. The longer it lasts the more civilian casualties there will be so the best method is to let it be known any place that harbors terrorists will be destroyed then do just that.

Rather quickly they'd have no where left to hide.

Yes, carpetbombing worked wonders for the American side in Cambodia, didn't it.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 2,994]

> The longer it lasts the more civilian casualties there will be so the best
> method is to let it be known any place that harbors terrorists will be
> destroyed then do just that.

>Rather quickly they'd have no where left to hide.

Neither would we. History has shown that the world as a whole will only take so much mass murder before they rise up against them.

[mircan 0]

Quote

>Did they have weapons?

Some had weapons, some had cameras.

After looking the footage it seems to me that I saw two guys with AKs before shooting started. So there were some guns. Also the telephoto lens on that camera "might" somehow be confused by an RPG in the eyes of stressed trigger-happy pilots.
But, half blown up man crawling on the street was definitely not a threat. More so, it seems to me that van just seem to be passing by and stopped as they saw wounded guy crying for help. They had no weapons on them too. Still those pilots blasted them away...
Imagine yourself driving along your suburb, driving kids to school, then you see wounded guy with his guts out crawling down the street. You stop to help the man, to drive him to the hospital. And then you and your kids die because somebody was trigger happy?! Accident my ass!
First shooting could somehow be named as mistake, second is just murder. US government in the past characterized similar events as war crimes when done by somebody who is not US Army.

dudeist skydiver #42

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

There are a couple of things going on here:

These pilots and gunners and their commanders aren't the deviant wankers they are accused of being.

These pilots and gunners and their commanders aren't the fine patriots who performed a noble act in this episode.

These pilots and gunners and their commanders are simply people - human beings. They were sent to a war they didn't start. Yes, they volunteered and were trained. They operated under the Rules of Engagement that they themselves did not write.

And as humans they make mistakes. They err. They are scared. They put their asses out there. They also live with the consequences of doing what they were sent to do and to deal with the devastation of mistakes that kill.

The US armed services provide top notch training on how to be an effective killer. They provide top notch positive reinforcement to those who exercise restraint. They do a lousy job in teaching people to deal with what they did in theater.

These servicemen are neither heroes nor villains. They were doing what they were told and with the information available. It's the tough part - they weren't out searching for an atrocity to commit.

The *best* part of this movie are the comments. No, not yours. Your above comments do sound like a piss take.

No, the comments of the actors in that video are the most inhuman text I heard since a long time.

Stop talking like a wrong priest, Mr. lawrocket.

Those guys exactly knew what they did. They wanted to shoot. They did not err.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Bolas 5]

Quote

> The longer it lasts the more civilian casualties there will be so the best
> method is to let it be known any place that harbors terrorists will be
> destroyed then do just that.

>Rather quickly they'd have no where left to hide.

Neither would we. History has shown that the world as a whole will only take so much mass murder before they rise up against them.

As far as Iraq is concerned it's sort of a moot point now as that is winding down and Iraqi forces are taking charge now, but how do you propose removing the terrorists from Afghanistan?

Regardless of the fact one agrees or disagrees for us being in Iraq, Afghanistan, or elsewhere. we're there. The question is how best to end it quickly with minimal loss of US soldiers and civilians.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

In many countries children do carry rifles and weapons of various types, that doesn't make them all terrorists and killers, it has to be viewed in cultural perspective. look at the pictures below and ask yourself which is the terrorist then ask yourself what made you decided...

All the brown ones are terrorists it is scientifically proven fact, just like 2+2 = Jello.



Also let me get this straight, We invade and start a war making the country a war zone so then its ok to kill anything that moves?


And if you compare this war to WWII well guess what were the Japanese. Hope we don’t get nuked to save the other side from losing to many men.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[futuredivot 0]

Quote

>Group of men, some of them carrying rifles = legitimate targets. End of story.

I'll remember that the next time someone whines about gun rights.

What kind of mechanical assist did you use to leap that far? I won't be able to see the vid until later today but if the crew thought they had a legit target they should apply maximum munitions to that target. If reporters want to put themselves in harm's way-expect to get harmed every once and awhile. If you drag kids into a area with bullets flying around-they're probably going to catch a few. Tragedy happens. If you know you're in an area prone to violent situations, alter your actions to minimize your exposure. I change behavior a good bit when I leave my little Podunk town and work in Miami or Memphis, or Bogota.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

Regardless of the fact one agrees or disagrees for us being in Iraq, Afghanistan, or elsewhere. we're there. The question is how best to end it quickly with minimal loss of US soldiers and civilians.

Sounds like the US vs. Japan in WWII. So just nuke'em. Brilliant.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 2,994]

>What kind of mechanical assist did you use to leap that far?

Then let me ask you the question directly. Should people who carry guns in their neighborhoods be killed as terrorists?

> If you know you're in an area prone to violent situations, alter your
> actions to minimize your exposure.

How do you alter your actions? What do you do if you are threatened?

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

No, the comments of the actors in that video are the most inhuman text I heard since a long time.

Yes. I haven't heard it but I reckon that it's all business, some mentioning of targets, the sound of a gun, adrenaline talkng, as they communicate about more targets, etc.

It's war. War is, by definition, immoral. I don't like it. It is what it is. However, I would suggest that such is not more or less inhuman that other things you might hear. Perhaps watching a beheading could be inhuman. Perhaps seeing footage of a suicide bomber is also inhuman. Talk about killing Japs and Krauts, yeah. Probably inhuman, too.

Part of what I suspect may make it so chilling to you is the sense that you expect better from Americans. Whether it's right or wrong for you to do that is an unanswerable question.


[Reply]Stop talking like a wrong priest, Mr. lawrocket.

[bluesilver30 0]

Quote

Quote

Regardless of the fact one agrees or disagrees for us being in Iraq, Afghanistan, or elsewhere. we're there. The question is how best to end it quickly with minimal loss of US soldiers and civilians.

Sounds like the US vs. Japan in WWII. So just nuke'em. Brilliant.

Guess you missed the part when he said "civilians."

As far as those of you passing judgement from behind your glowing computer monitors on your Ikea swivel chairs, get off your high horse until you get out to the front lines and feel what it's actually like to make those split second decisions. You might think flying around in a helicopter is safe down range, but trust me, it's not. Having your life threatened day in and day out will put you on edge. Especially army dudes that are out there for over a year, return home for a month, then head out for another year. Try being away from your family for that long, fighting a war you personally may not believe in, reading all the BS press that tries to make you out to be a bad guy every day... and then decide how "nobel" you want to be.

If you want to bash the politicians for sending us to war in the first place, fine. But judging a soldier fighting in a constant gray zone between good and bad is just fucked. They are doing their best. Put yourself in their shoes.