AZ Immigration Bill Invites Racial Profiling of US Citizens

[masterrig 1]

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As much as I abhore the border problem this is not the answer.

Finally, a little common sense from the right. I say employer sanctions are part of the answer. The problem is, here in the US, we're fascist/corporatist and we don't hold employers accountable nearly enough. If no jobs, many willleave.

There are laws on the books to penalize employers who hire illegals. The penalties can be fairly stiff. Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws. They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted. Like I said earlier, well over 12,000,000 illegals have brought this down on those legally here. They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way. You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do. Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!


Chuck

[champu 1]

Being here illegally is an absurd thing to make a primary offense because it doesn't look like anything. Likewise, you can't pull someone over on the freeway on suspicion of tax evasion.

"That's an awful nice car you're driving for someone in their late 20s, care to show me your 1040s for the last few years?"

[marks2065 0]

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I would ask, but I see you don't give a rat's ass about Mexican-Americans, as well as others who get harrassed by the piggies.

maybe the legal ones should help and give a rats ass about america

[Lucky... 0]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

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They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

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They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

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You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

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Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

[kallend 2,027]

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As much as I abhore the border problem this is not the answer.

Finally, a little common sense from the right. I say employer sanctions are part of the answer. The problem is, here in the US, we're fascist/corporatist and we don't hold employers accountable nearly enough. If no jobs, many willleave.

There are laws on the books to penalize employers who hire illegals. The penalties can be fairly stiff.

Rather the same for the laws that penalize people for selling guns to felons. Laws are useless when huge loopholes in enforcement exist

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lucky... 0]

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I would ask, but I see you don't give a rat's ass about Mexican-Americans, as well as others who get harrassed by the piggies.

maybe the legal ones should help and give a rats ass about america

Maybe, but do you want a law making it a crime to not report a crime that you have knowledge of? That means the uncle who leaves a little drunk, you have knowldege of it, you fail to report, now you're a ciminal. The pothead nephew of yours (hypothetically) or the sister's kid's bf/gf who is a druggy, well, you better turn em in cause if they get busted and it can be proven that you ahve knowldege of it, well, you're now a criminal under your new law.

[marks2065 0]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

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They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

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You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

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Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

[Lucky... 0]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

Quote

They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

Quote

You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

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Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

W/o getting the ACLU involved = a sarcastic way of saying: FUCK CIVIL RIGHTS.

This isn't utopia, we will always have crime. It's about the positioning of the bar, if you want it lowered and have the piggies raid your wife's panty drawer when you're gone, they will raid everyones and find contraband, so that will reduce crime as it removes privacy. Oh wait, strict constitutionalists, we have no right to privacy, it is no where in the Articles, Preamble or Amendments. Anyway, you rais teh bar too high and civil right infringements are not an issue, but too many crimes go unpunished. So pick your flavor, but try not to say: FUCK BROWN PEOPLE, WHITE IS RIGHT; AS LONG AS THEY FUCK WITH OTHER DEMOGRAPHICS IT'S FAIR AND CONSTITUTIONAL. We need to protect everyone's civil rights to ensure we keep our own.

Examples of fixing teh problem is more border security for many reasons, mostly terrorism-related. Employer sanctions is a great place to start, see, business in teh US is inherently sleazy, they operate on profit; fuck people. So if it becomes more expensive to operate withj illegals then they will try to exploit another area.

[masterrig 1]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

Quote

They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

Quote

You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

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Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

I understand what you are saying about 'color'. I referred to it when I said that 12-million+ illegals have brought that down on 'people of color'.
The Border Patrol can bring charges on a business. How far they get is another story.

Do you really feel that law enforcement officers are going to suddenly go nuts stopping any and every 'brown skinned person'? When I hear it from the very people who are 'brown skinned' that they don't like the illegal problem and want something done about it... that tells me something.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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As much as I abhore the border problem this is not the answer.

Finally, a little common sense from the right. I say employer sanctions are part of the answer. The problem is, here in the US, we're fascist/corporatist and we don't hold employers accountable nearly enough. If no jobs, many willleave.

There are laws on the books to penalize employers who hire illegals. The penalties can be fairly stiff.

Rather the same for the laws that penalize people for selling guns to felons. Laws are useless when huge loopholes in enforcement exist

Very good point. I don't believe, those loopholes are just an 'over-sight'.


Chuck

[billvon 2,994]

>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

[Lucky... 0]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

Quote

They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

Quote

You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

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Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

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I understand what you are saying about 'color'. I referred to it when I said that 12-million+ illegals have brought that down on 'people of color'.

Right, so one demonizes the otehr, but either way they are all one in the same, right? I just see how you can logically tie togther a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or higher generation Mexican-American to an illegal alien. I mean I see why people do it, but it just isn't logical. Many legal Mexican-Americans dislike illegal immigration, does that mean they should be required to turn in those they know of or be facing criminal charges themselves? Does that mean they shoudl be subject to harrassing stops because they happen to look like illegals?

HYPOTHETICAL: Mexico discovers massive amounts of light sweet crude, they become vastly rich as a nation and no longer wnat to come to fascist-land. Now Canada encounters political/financial problems and they want assylum here and many sneak over the border. Do we go after those GD Canadian illegal immigrants, or is it ok since they're white? This question is rhetorical, I know the answer from most Americans, esp in neck states.

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The Border Patrol can bring charges on a business. How far they get is another story.

OK, so teh problem here is one of statutory language or prosecutorial incompetence; let's fix the problem, not new ones.

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Do you really feel that law enforcement officers are going to suddenly go nuts stopping any and every 'brown skinned person'?

FUCK YES, AS THEY WISH.

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When I hear it from the very people who are 'brown skinned' that they don't like the illegal problem and want something done about it... that tells me something.


Chuck

Which is what I said, many brown skinned people don't like illegals, but they don't want to be harrassed due to the gov being too incompetent, refusing to punish businesses, etc. We agree there is a problem, giving pigs free run to stop w/o PC/RS is very dangerous.

[Lucky... 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

Kinda like legalizing drugs, makes shipping them in unprofitable. Coyotes would be put out of work if immigration became easier/ more possible.

[marks2065 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

why would we do that when we have 10% unemployment? why not let the citizens work and make the rest come here legally and become citizens. why should we give our jobs to non citizens?

[Lucky... 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

why would we do that when we have 10% unemployment? why not let the citizens work and make the rest come here legally and become citizens. why should we give our jobs to non citizens?

A) Most jobs they take US citizens don't want

B) This issue isn't since your president/party fucked everything up, illgal imigtaion has been an issue forever. Reagan's fix was to just make them all legal, wanna do that?

[marks2065 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

Kinda like legalizing drugs, makes shipping them in unprofitable. Coyotes would be put out of work if immigration became easier/ more possible.

the origonal immigration laws were wrote to protect america and its people. limit the flow to a managable number that wouldn't overstress the country or its resources. Being an american citizen is a honor and those coming here should treat it as that.

IMO the biggest difference between other groups and the mexicans is that other groups became americans, the hispanics want to be mexican in america.

[masterrig 1]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

Quote

They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

Quote

You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

Quote

Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

Quote

I understand what you are saying about 'color'. I referred to it when I said that 12-million+ illegals have brought that down on 'people of color'.

Right, so one demonizes the otehr, but either way they are all one in the same, right? I just see how you can logically tie togther a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or higher generation Mexican-American to an illegal alien. I mean I see why people do it, but it just isn't logical. Many legal Mexican-Americans dislike illegal immigration, does that mean they should be required to turn in those they know of or be facing criminal charges themselves? Does that mean they shoudl be subject to harrassing stops because they happen to look like illegals?

HYPOTHETICAL: Mexico discovers massive amounts of light sweet crude, they become vastly rich as a nation and no longer wnat to come to fascist-land. Now Canada encounters political/financial problems and they want assylum here and many sneak over the border. Do we go after those GD Canadian illegal immigrants, or is it ok since they're white? This question is rhetorical, I know the answer from most Americans, esp in neck states.

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The Border Patrol can bring charges on a business. How far they get is another story.

OK, so teh problem here is one of statutory language or prosecutorial incompetence; let's fix the problem, not new ones.

Quote

Do you really feel that law enforcement officers are going to suddenly go nuts stopping any and every 'brown skinned person'?

FUCK YES, AS THEY WISH.

Quote

When I hear it from the very people who are 'brown skinned' that they don't like the illegal problem and want something done about it... that tells me something.


Chuck

Which is what I said, many brown skinned people don't like illegals, but they don't want to be harrassed due to the gov being too incompetent, refusing to punish businesses, etc. We agree there is a problem, giving pigs free run to stop w/o PC/RS is very dangerous.

It boils-down to one thing... Arizona found they had a very serious problem. The U.S. Govt. won't do anything about it because our bought-off politicians have their head so deep in the sand you have to pum air to them, won't do anything. Arizona is doing something about it. I think too, there's a great deal of 'knee-jerk reaction'right now.
I know too, there are too many residents here in Texas who live along our border, who are sick and tired of their homes being broken-into by illegals. Where's their 'civil rights'?


Chuck

[Shotgun 1]

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THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED.

First, I'll admit that I didn't read all 17 pages of the bill (just skimmed it)... But from what I did read, I didn't see anything that looked like it gave the police permission to stop people based on what they look like, if they're not doing anything wrong. Did I miss something?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

[marks2065 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

why would we do that when we have 10% unemployment? why not let the citizens work and make the rest come here legally and become citizens. why should we give our jobs to non citizens?

A) Most jobs they take US citizens don't want

B) This issue isn't since your president/party fucked everything up, illgal imigtaion has been an issue forever. Reagan's fix was to just make them all legal, wanna do that?

sounds good as long as anyone that has commited any crimes, collected welfare, or us the medical system for free are sent back and the rest become citizens, pay taxes, learn english, and take their citizenship test in english. in otherwords, become americans not mexicans in america.

[Lucky... 0]

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>since you are so smart give some examples of how to fix this problem
>that would protect the citizens without getting the aclu involved.

Make it easier to come into this country legally to work. That alone would cut the number of illegal aliens in half.

Kinda like legalizing drugs, makes shipping them in unprofitable. Coyotes would be put out of work if immigration became easier/ more possible.

Quote

the origonal immigration laws were wrote to protect america and its people. limit the flow to a managable number that wouldn't overstress the country or its resources. Being an american citizen is a honor and those coming here should treat it as that.

Like the Chinese Exclusion Act? The way it works is that those outside who want to come in, think it should be easier, once inside, make it harder. Simple hypocrisy. Kinda like, why do we have to have algebra with many univ desgrees that are not science-related? But once we get our degree, let's make it harder for the others, right? It's about makimg things exclusive.

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IMO the biggest difference between other groups and the mexicans is that other groups became americans, the hispanics want to be mexican in america.

So no Mexicans have immigrated legally? No Canadians / W.E. have immigrated illegally? Now I underastand. It really is more of an assylum than it is immigration, insane how people flock to a fascist nation, Mexico must be that fucked up. I bet Canadian and W.E. emigration is far lower than it has been ever.

[Lucky... 0]

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Our government ties the hands of those sworn to enforce our laws.

Are you F'N kidding? Cops have sooooooo much lattitude it's sick. If they kill someone, they at most lose their badge in most cases.

Quote

They might get by with charging a small business but trying to charge a business like Wal-Mart, isn't accepted.

That's a prosecutorial issue, not LEO. And again, the courts, esp the trial courts in neck states are really right-leaning. As well, you kinda support my fascist argument in that the gov doesn't wanna charge business, esp large business = fascism / corporatism.

Quote

They aren't going to turn-in their own... they don't work that way.

It'snot their job, just as I have no duty to report unless a special relationship exists. That doesn't go as far as making it legal to give aid to illegals. Do you want to pass laws requiring people to turn other sin? Me thinks you don't.

Quote

You as well as many others are screaming about 'their' civil rights and constitutional rights yet, those of us who live along the border have to put-up with what illegals do.

Apparently you're not reading well, let me make this perfectly clear: THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED. Did that clear it up for you? No one that I give credit to is defending the illegals, I'm sure some fnatical groups are, I just don't agree with them.

Quote

Where are OUR rights to live free of intimidation and fear? I'm not just talking about Anglos, I'm talking about the hispanic folks also, who are also tired of the illegals and ask our congressmen, 'what are they going to do about it'. I've gotten that straight from them!

So is your answer to state that brown = PC/RS? Please answer, is it your notion / assertion that if cops get a free-brown card, that is, anyone brown can be stopped whether on foot or in a car w/o any cause whatsoever and asked for papers? Please answer.

Quote

I understand what you are saying about 'color'. I referred to it when I said that 12-million+ illegals have brought that down on 'people of color'.

Right, so one demonizes the otehr, but either way they are all one in the same, right? I just see how you can logically tie togther a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or higher generation Mexican-American to an illegal alien. I mean I see why people do it, but it just isn't logical. Many legal Mexican-Americans dislike illegal immigration, does that mean they should be required to turn in those they know of or be facing criminal charges themselves? Does that mean they shoudl be subject to harrassing stops because they happen to look like illegals?

HYPOTHETICAL: Mexico discovers massive amounts of light sweet crude, they become vastly rich as a nation and no longer wnat to come to fascist-land. Now Canada encounters political/financial problems and they want assylum here and many sneak over the border. Do we go after those GD Canadian illegal immigrants, or is it ok since they're white? This question is rhetorical, I know the answer from most Americans, esp in neck states.

Quote

The Border Patrol can bring charges on a business. How far they get is another story.

OK, so teh problem here is one of statutory language or prosecutorial incompetence; let's fix the problem, not new ones.

Quote

Do you really feel that law enforcement officers are going to suddenly go nuts stopping any and every 'brown skinned person'?

FUCK YES, AS THEY WISH.

Quote

When I hear it from the very people who are 'brown skinned' that they don't like the illegal problem and want something done about it... that tells me something.


Chuck

Which is what I said, many brown skinned people don't like illegals, but they don't want to be harrassed due to the gov being too incompetent, refusing to punish businesses, etc. We agree there is a problem, giving pigs free run to stop w/o PC/RS is very dangerous.

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It boils-down to one thing... Arizona found they had a very serious problem. The U.S. Govt. won't do anything about it because our bought-off politicians have their head so deep in the sand you have to pum air to them, won't do anything.

Really? I guess all these billions: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/rewrite/budget/fy2008/homeland.html Aren't real.

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Arizona is doing something about it. I think too, there's a great deal of 'knee-jerk reaction'right now.

Knee-jerk as in what? Do you mean over reaction to the law that will be in effect in a little over 90 days? Yea, whenever Nazi laws are enacted, there is often great reation to them. The tea baggers down your way would cconsider the HC law in teh same light, I guess you don't see it that way.

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I know too, there are too many residents here in Texas who live along our border, who are sick and tired of their homes being broken-into by illegals.

OK, so to enact a law that allows for cops to pull over or otherwise stop any brown person to ask for papers will fix this? It won't abridge any civil rights?

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Where's their 'civil rights'?


Chuck

Me knows you don't understand the definition of 'civil rights' which explains volumes.

http://www.answers.com/topic/civil-rights

The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.


So you see not having your house broken into isn't a protectcion under civil rights as you claim. I see teh 14th is there, that requires equal protection for all citizens and your law invades that, so you're right about civil rights, you just missaplied it.

[Lucky... 0]

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THE ISSUE IS THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE ALOS LEGAL US CITIZENS VIA BIRTH OR NATURALIZATION WILL BE TARGETED, STOPPED W/O PC/RS, AND HARRASSED.

First, I'll admit that I didn't read all 17 pages of the bill (just skimmed it)... But from what I did read, I didn't see anything that looked like it gave the police permission to stop people based on what they look like, if they're not doing anything wrong. Did I miss something?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.
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2. VERIFYING ANY CLAIM OF RESIDENCE OR DOMICILE IF DETERMINATION OF RESIDENCE OR DOMICILE IS REQUIRED UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS STATE OR A JUDICIAL ORDER ISSUED PURSUANT TO A CIVIL OR CRIMINAL PROCEEDING IN THIS STATE.

(all brown people must prove citizenship)

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I. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IS INDEMNIFIED BY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER'S AGENCY AGAINST REASONABLE COSTS AND EXPENSES, INCLUDING ATTORNEY FEES, INCURRED BY THE OFFICER IN CONNECTION WITH ANY ACTION, SUIT OR PROCEEDING BROUGHT PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION TO WHICH THE OFFICER MAY BE A PARTY BY REASON OF THE OFFICER BEING OR HAVING BEEN A MEMBER OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, EXCEPT IN RELATION TO MATTERS IN WHICH THE OFFICER IS ADJUDGED TO HAVE ACTED IN BAD FAITH.

(Now we of course have to immunize piggies)
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K. IT IS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE TO A VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION A OF THIS SECTION THAT THE EMPLOYER WAS ENTRAPPED. TO CLAIM ENTRAPMENT, THE EMPLOYER MUST ADMIT BY THE EMPLOYER'S TESTIMONY OR OTHER EVIDENCE THE SUBSTANTIAL ELEMENTS OF THE VIOLATION. AN EMPLOYER WHO ASSERTS AN ENTRAPMENT DEFENSE HAS THE BURDEN OF PROVING THE FOLLOWING BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE: 1. THE IDEA OF COMMITTING THE VIOLATION STARTED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR THEIR AGENTS RATHER THAN WITH THE EMPLOYER. 2. THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR THEIR AGENTS URGED AND INDUCED THE EMPLOYER TO COMMIT THE VIOLATION.
3. THE EMPLOYER WAS NOT PREDISPOSED TO COMMIT THE VIOLATION BEFORE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR THEIR AGENTS URGED AND INDUCED THE EMPLOYER TO COMMIT THE VIOLATION. L. AN EMPLOYER DOES NOT ESTABLISH ENTRAPMENT IF THE EMPLOYER WAS PREDISPOSED TO VIOLATE SUBSECTION A OF THIS SECTION AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR THEIR AGENTS MERELY PROVIDED THE EMPLOYER WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT THE VIOLATION. IT IS NOT ENTRAPMENT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR THEIR AGENTS MERELY TO USE A RUSE OR TO CONCEAL THEIR IDENTITY. THE CONDUCT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND THEIR AGENTS MAY BE CONSIDERED IN DETERMINING IF AN EMPLOYER HAS PROVEN ENTRAPMENT.

(See, being a fasist nation we have to protect our businesses/corporations)
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4. THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF A CRIMINAL OFFENSE AND IS TRANSPORTING, MOVING, CONCEALING, HARBORING OR SHIELDING OR ATTEMPTING TO TRANSPORT, MOVE, CONCEAL, HARBOR OR SHIELD AN ALIEN IN THIS STATE IN A VEHICLE IF THE PERSON KNOWS OR RECKLESSLY DISREGARDS THE FACT THAT THE ALIEN HAS COME TO, HAS ENTERED OR REMAINS IN THE UNITED STATES IN VIOLATION OF LAW.

(So that means anyone who comes in contact with a person who *might* be an illegal alien runs the risk of being a criminal. In Mexican-American communities where a lot of people run together, if 1 rents a room, the entire household is subject to being criminalized because they should have known.)

____________________________________


I see it as dangerous in many ways. If the local admin and the feds had cracked down more on employers that would have fixed it.

[masterrig 1]

There's the 'knee-jerk' reaction I'm referring to. You seem to feel that all of a sudden, there is going to be some form of nazi, police state take-over.
You read what Shotgun posted. To me, it doesn't give law enforcement too much 'wiggle room'.
I do think, you have a valid point in regard to penalizing employers... all of them, for hiring illegals. Hit employers who hire them and hit them in the wallet hard.


Chuck

[Lucky... 0]

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There's the 'knee-jerk' reaction I'm referring to. You seem to feel that all of a sudden, there is going to be some form of nazi, police state take-over.

No, it's already here, some stretches of freway you drive 5 miles and see 3 photo-cameras. So we're here, now we're just expanding our protocol. But piggies willbe stopping more people for driving while brown.

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You read what Shotgun posted. To me, it doesn't give law enforcement too much 'wiggle room'.

I do and we'll see how the state courts rule, as well as the SCOTUS in following years.

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I do think, you have a valid point in regard to penalizing employers... all of them, for hiring illegals. Hit employers who hire them and hit them in the wallet hard.


Chuck

Right, we're a fascist dirty fucking corporate-loving nation; we hate to penalize what we cater to. If teh jobs dry up, the illegals go home or elsewhere. I'm not advocating illegal immigration and not advocating Nazi practice either, justthat illegalizing and over-enforcing issues makes them worse, as with 1920's prohibition.

[masterrig 1]

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There's the 'knee-jerk' reaction I'm referring to. You seem to feel that all of a sudden, there is going to be some form of nazi, police state take-over.

No, it's already here, some stretches of freway you drive 5 miles and see 3 photo-cameras. So we're here, now we're just expanding our protocol. But piggies willbe stopping more people for driving while brown.

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You read what Shotgun posted. To me, it doesn't give law enforcement too much 'wiggle room'.

I do and we'll see how the state courts rule, as well as the SCOTUS in following years.

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I do think, you have a valid point in regard to penalizing employers... all of them, for hiring illegals. Hit employers who hire them and hit them in the wallet hard.


Chuck

Right, we're a fascist dirty fucking corporate-loving nation; we hate to penalize what we cater to. If teh jobs dry up, the illegals go home or elsewhere. I'm not advocating illegal immigration and not advocating Nazi practice either, justthat illegalizing and over-enforcing issues makes them worse, as with 1920's prohibition.

Greedy comes to mind, too. We have to start somewhere. Those people in this country who don't live along our border either don't or won't see the problem or just choose to ignore it. It's not happening in their neighborhood so what's the deal. I'll tell you what. How about, we ALL ignore the problem, just let it go and see what happens. Would that suit you?


Chuck