AZ Immigration Bill Invites Racial Profiling of US Citizens

[masterrig 1]

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>It appears, I'm not the only one who sees a problem on our border.

There's definitely a problem with our borders. But there's also a problem with gun crime, and the answer isn't "so get rid of guns."

I agree with that but, I don't see any 'sense' in some of the reactions to these and other problems. Everyone wants it their way and it just doesn't work like that. I cannot see, just stopping someone because they look like they are illegally here. I can understand stopping someone for a traffic violation and if, they don't have a driver's license, proof of insurance and proper registration for the vehicle, this could be reason to persue further questioning. At least in a 'reasonable' manner. In other words, some form of sensibility about it. I really believe, too many people are 'jumping the gun' a bit on this whole matter in regard to Arizona's new law. Let's give it some time and see how it goes.


Chuck

[davjohns 1]

Whenever I see something that looks very blatant like this story, I get suspicious.

I can find the same story over and over on the internt. I also found some oblique comments that indicate facts have been withheld.

It appears the guy's CDL was from California. Although the stories repeatedly refer to him as an Arizona driver, he is listed as being from Fresno. Fresno is in California. California does not require that you identify yourself as a legal resident before they issue you a DL.

The story indicates that he was taken into custody after giving his SSN. When I was a cop, this usually indicated the SSN had been used for illegal purposes and you had to make sure you could identify this person to ensure they were not the criminal.

My guess would be that this guy let someone use his SSN, it was in the system, and agents held him to make sure he was who he said. Legal residents allowing family and friends to use their SSN is common in the Mexican community.

Feel free to argue that the actions are still wrong, but I submit that we are not in possession of all facts.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[chutem 0]

(not to anyone in particular) If they can get the signatures this will slow things down.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

James

[likearock 2]

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(not to anyone in particular) If they can get the signatures this will slow things down.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

James

Doesn't really matter. In the end, simple economics will make the difference. Remember Arizona's Martin Luther King Day controversy? Once their "principled stand" against MLK day started affecting their bottom line, they changed their tune in a hurry. And guess what, baseball's 2011 All Star game happens to be scheduled for Phoenix. Anyone know the percentage of Hispanics in MLB? As Yogi would say, "it's deja vu all over again!"

Let's keep the whole thing in perspective: Arizona doesn't just have a problem with the legal status of Mexicans, it's got one with our president as well.

[kallend 2,027]

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(not to anyone in particular) If they can get the signatures this will slow things down.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100428/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

James

Doesn't really matter. In the end, simple economics will make the difference. Remember Arizona's Martin Luther King Day controversy? Once their "principled stand" against MLK day started affecting their bottom line, they changed their tune in a hurry. And guess what, baseball's 2011 All Star game happens to be scheduled for Phoenix. Anyone know the percentage of Hispanics in MLB? As Yogi would say, "it's deja vu all over again!"

Let's keep the whole thing in perspective: Arizona doesn't just have a problem with the legal status of Mexicans, it's got one with our president as well.

Arizona seems to have more than its fair share of loonies and wingnuts. The heat must affect their brains.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FallingOsh 0]

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So you're okay with giving up some of your basic civil rights for a little sense of security? If so, which ones should we give up? Would you be okay with a cop pulling you over and asking for proof of citizenship and then being detained until proof was provided.

You realize this already happens, right? Up until now they just peak in your car for some reason. I'm guessing they are checking to see if anyone looks dark skinned and scared. Now they have the right to ask for an ID. Big change...

I suppose it's not such a big change if you happen to be light skinned.

Did that make sense in your head before you wrote it. This is the way things already are. The difference is that the illegals can be arrested. Rather than strictly racial profiling, they can ask for an ID. As much as it probably burns you up, this is actually more fair that what is currently happening.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[livendive 8]

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Every time I register my vehicles, I have to show proof of insurance. Whenever I vote, I have to show proof of who I am. In one way or another, I've had to do that at some time or another, all my life.

How many times have you had to prove your identity in order to go out in public? *Everyone* has to show papers in order to register a vehicle or vote. Per this law, only the brown people will have to show ID whenever a cop feels like asking for it.

I'm adamantly opposed to illegal immigration. I'm also fervently in favor of protecting the constitutional rights of our citizens. This law throws the baby out with the bathwater by sacrificing the good in an effort to reverse some of the bad.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[davjohns 1]

I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Whenever I see something that looks very blatant like this story, I get suspicious.

I can find the same story over and over on the internt. I also found some oblique comments that indicate facts have been withheld.

It appears the guy's CDL was from California. Although the stories repeatedly refer to him as an Arizona driver, he is listed as being from Fresno. Fresno is in California. California does not require that you identify yourself as a legal resident before they issue you a DL.

The story indicates that he was taken into custody after giving his SSN. When I was a cop, this usually indicated the SSN had been used for illegal purposes and you had to make sure you could identify this person to ensure they were not the criminal.

My guess would be that this guy let someone use his SSN, it was in the system, and agents held him to make sure he was who he said. Legal residents allowing family and friends to use their SSN is common in the Mexican community.

Feel free to argue that the actions are still wrong, but I submit that we are not in possession of all facts.

Maybe not; but anyone with life experience and news savvy knows that when people in authority - such as a police depratment, for one example, get negative publicity (like this), they generally defend themselves by making public "the other side of the story". In other words, if this guy's SSN had come up as a hit over the system, and the LEO in the field was operating under the guidance of that, I think the LEO's Department would have gone public with that bit of information by now.

The implication is that legal American citizens who get ID'd in Arizona for no other reason than (let's face it) they look like "spics" (OK, Hispanic racial profiling), will now get arrested "detained pending confirmation" if their DL is from a state with rules like CA.

Yeah, that's wrong.

[Shotgun 1]

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I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

I read through some of it (17 pages long - didn't have time to read it all), and I didn't see anything targeting "brown people." Mostly I was thinking, "Why is this not already a law?" Most of the reaction does seem hysterical to me.

Probably the best argument I've heard against the bill is from some of the AZ cops. They are concerned that they may now be required to question the immigration status of victims in crimes, further victimizing the person, and I think that is a reasonable concern.

[rushmc 23]

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I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

You are correct. It has
But everyone needs to understand why the Dem side of the isle is so opposed to this

And it has nothing to do with civil rights

It has everything to do with votes and elections

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

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I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

You are correct. It has
But everyone needs to understand why the Dem side of the isle is so opposed to this

And it has nothing to do with civil rights

It has everything to do with votes and elections

I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

Doesn’t sound that crazy to me. The law is not much different then the federal law. It has always been illegal to be here illegally believe it or not. Now the police can actually enforce the law.


I don’t see it as that crazy.
I have to say that there is a lot of spin on this, so people are just getting the most outrageous views on the law and it is a knee jerk subject for many.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

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I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

You are correct. It has
But everyone needs to understand why the Dem side of the isle is so opposed to this

And it has nothing to do with civil rights

It has everything to do with votes and elections

I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

Doesn’t sound that crazy to me. The law is not much different then the federal law. It has always been illegal to be here illegally believe it or not. Now the police can actually enforce the law.


I don’t see it as that crazy.
I have to say that there is a lot of spin on this, so people are just getting the most outrageous views on the law and it is a knee jerk subject for many.

That is exactly what it says
But it has to be shown to be something different to have a chance to demonize it enough to kill it

And the Dems have to kill it not because of any civil rights issue, but voting and voter identification issues

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Doesn't the admin (Dem) want to work amnesty?


just another mistake of George Bush's that they are trying to do even worse?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Southern_Man 0]

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I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

How is speaking English a sign of citizenship? There is no requirement for citizens to learn English.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rushmc 23]

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Doesn't the admin (Dem) want to work amnesty?


just another mistake of George Bush's that they are trying to do even worse?

Bush and Regean

And yes, I believe amnesty is the end game goal. But the reason for it is what needs to be talked about

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

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I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

How is speaking English a sign of citizenship? There is no requirement for citizens to learn English.

Yes there is.

You have to take a test in English. and you have to write English in front of an immigration officer. The only way you are exempt from the test is if you have an illness, or if you are over 65.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

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The only way you are exempt from the test is if you have an illness, or if you are over 65.

AGE DISCRIMINATION

the only way to fix your problem is a tax increase to pay for solar technology research -

don't read the proposal - SIGN THE BILL NOW - or do you hate senior citizens and blind people that much?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rhaig 0]

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How is speaking English a sign of citizenship? There is no requirement for citizens to learn English.

reasonable suspicion is a soft definition. If you came upon a person speaking a foreign language who has no form of identification, would you not wonder if they were a US citizen or a citizen of another country?

--
Rob

[Darius11 12]

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How is speaking English a sign of citizenship? There is no requirement for citizens to learn English.

reasonable suspicion is a soft definition. If you came upon a person speaking a foreign language who has no form of identification, would you not wonder if they were a US citizen or a citizen of another country?

The thing is you can only ask for proof of citizenship if the person you came upon is already engaged in an activity that would require police to have a word with you.

That’s a huge point that has been left out. You can't pull someone over for driving while brown, but if someone is speeding and is pulled over and you suspect him or her to be illegal you can ask for proof of citizenship, and enforce the law. You could not before. It was ILLIGLE for police to do that before now its not.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[DanG 1]

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Yes there is.

You have to take a test in English. and you have to write English in front of an immigration officer. The only way you are exempt from the test is if you have an illness, or if you are over 65.

Only if you immigrated. If you are born here you can speak whatever language you want.

The problem I have with this bill is that it doesn't just allow the cops the check citizenship, it requires the officer to check if he suspects that a person is illegal. Cops are basically being told that they had better check everyone. This logically turns into a requirement for everyone to be able to prove citizenship at all times. Show me your papers, comrade.

- Dan G

[Darius11 12]

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Only if you immigrated. If you are born here you can speak whatever language you want.

Wow your right, i didn't even think that we have people born here who do not ever learn english, but honestly they didn't got to public school? What percent of people are born in the USA and are an adult now who do not speak english??????

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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I hear lots of people saying what this law does and they all say it is evil. I heard some experts on television who said that is not the case and everyone is getting hysterical.

Has anyone on here actually read it?

I think the spin on this thing has far exceeded the thing itself.

imagine that, the left spinning things to look bad for the republicans.

You are correct. It has
But everyone needs to understand why the Dem side of the isle is so opposed to this

And it has nothing to do with civil rights

It has everything to do with votes and elections

I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

Doesn’t sound that crazy to me. The law is not much different then the federal law. It has always been illegal to be here illegally believe it or not. Now the police can actually enforce the law.


I don’t see it as that crazy.
I have to say that there is a lot of spin on this, so people are just getting the most outrageous views on the law and it is a knee jerk subject for many.

[davjohns 1]

I put myself through school as a cop. Whenever you deal with someone, you identify them. You do it to ensure they are not wanted. You do it so dispatch knows who you are dealing with in case you get shot. You do it because you might need to contact them again later. You just do it.

Illegal aliens lie about who they are. They are, by definition, criminals. Criminals lie to cops. It's the way things work. Verifying citizenship is just part of identifying the person in some cases. Done properly, it will only offend people who are up to no good.

Obviously, there is the potential for abuse. There always is. Departments will develop policies and courts will provide rulings that will clarify things. This is hardly the doom that some people are making it out to be.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kallend 2,027]

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I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can.

How is speaking English a sign of citizenship? There is no requirement for citizens to learn English.

Yes there is.

You have to take a test in English. and you have to write English in front of an immigration officer. The only way you are exempt from the test is if you have an illness, or if you are over 65.

Citizenship is irrelevant. It is legal status. You can be a perfectly legal resident alien, and a perfectly legal non-resident alien.

There's no language requirement on legal alien status.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.