So, All this Outrage Over Arizona's New Law, yet...

[Gawain 0]

...nary a peep about a democrat proposal for a National ID Card program introduced yesterday.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Now, such a program for temporary/short-term guest workers is not such a bad idea in some aspects, but for everyone...go ahead, defend that!

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[airdvr 210]

Well...it's not a problem because it's their idea.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,461]

Hadn't heard about it. I hate that as a requirement.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AndyBoyd 0]

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...nary a peep about a democrat proposal for a National ID Card program introduced yesterday.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Now, such a program for temporary/short-term guest workers is not such a bad idea in some aspects, but for everyone...go ahead, defend that!

Your question is a fair one. This new proposal has flown under the radar with all the media focused on the AZ law. It probably should be getting more attention. I think it's a bad idea for the reasons stated by the ACLU in the article.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Very disturbing, yet inevitable. I am surprised this is being introduced for all workers. I would have thought those behind the Security Industrial Complex would have introduced it for all guest workers first, then for all immigrants (then all workers, then all people).
The question really becomes what price will you pay to get a grip on immigration. Fences and manpower and racial profiling and shakedowns are not going to do the trick. Security vs freedom once again.

[Amazon 7]

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...nary a peep about a democrat proposal for a National ID Card program introduced yesterday.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Now, such a program for temporary/short-term guest workers is not such a bad idea in some aspects, but for everyone...go ahead, defend that!

I carry one of these with me at all times....Passport Card

I think that carrying REAL identification in this country is LONG overdue.


The people who seem to think that a national ID card is the spawn of satan incarnate.. need to pull their collective heads out of each others collective asses.

[Bolas 5]

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Very disturbing, yet inevitable. I am surprised this is being introduced for all workers. I would have thought those behind the Security Industrial Complex would have introduced it for all guest workers first, then for all immigrants (then all workers, then all people).
The question really becomes what price will you pay to get a grip on immigration. Fences and manpower and racial profiling and shakedowns are not going to do the trick. Security vs freedom once again.

Maybe I'm in the minority here but my issues with illegals is more that they are not paying income taxes for the services they use which is one of the reasons why we are in such debt,

A mandatory federal ID is not the solution either.


Besides, we don't even need a new program to do it, just expand the passport program.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Amazon 7]

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Very disturbing, yet inevitable. I am surprised this is being introduced for all workers. I would have thought those behind the Security Industrial Complex would have introduced it for all guest workers first, then for all immigrants (then all workers, then all people).
The question really becomes what price will you pay to get a grip on immigration. Fences and manpower and racial profiling and shakedowns are not going to do the trick. Security vs freedom once again.

Maybe I'm in the minority here but my issues with illegals is more that they are not paying income taxes for the services they use which is one of the reasons why we are in such debt,

A mandatory federal ID is not the solution either.


Besides, we don't even need a new program to do it, just expand the passport program.

Or make one of the most important pieces of ID REAL instead of a horrible joke. Most people in this country have a Social Security card....and since it is kinda important in most peoples life.. you would think it would be something a bit more tangible than it currently is.

I would not even mind seeing the two of them combined into one with similar features.

[rhaig 0]

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The people who seem to think that a national ID card is the spawn of satan incarnate.. need to pull their collective heads out of each others collective asses.

yeah... you're right... why bother listening to the ACLU

--
Rob

[shropshire 0]

They are 'sort of' trying to do the same thing in the U.K - but as usual, it's all half arsed.

Why the fuck can't we have a single smart-card that is FIPS 201 (PIV) compliant, our Driving license, passport, Access Control card etc... etc...

These agencies (yours and ours) need to pull their collective fingers out, stop their bickering and agree on a single standard managed by a single organisation.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 23]

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...nary a peep about a democrat proposal for a National ID Card program introduced yesterday.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/95235-democrats-spark-alarm-with-call-for-national-id-card

Now, such a program for temporary/short-term guest workers is not such a bad idea in some aspects, but for everyone...go ahead, defend that!

I carry one of these with me at all times....Passport Card

I think that carrying REAL identification in this country is LONG overdue.


The people who seem to think that a national ID card is the spawn of satan incarnate.. need to pull their collective heads out of each others collective asses.

Damn


this


is


hard



to




say but

I


agree



with you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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The people who seem to think that a national ID card is the spawn of satan incarnate.. need to pull their collective heads out of each others collective asses.

yeah... you're right... why bother listening to the ACLU

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE.. a right winger supporting the ACLU?????????????


WTF...... next thing you know there will be dogs and cats living together....

[airdvr 210]

All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[shropshire 0]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[airdvr 210]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

Agreed. And you can't do that with an ID until you've closed the door (border).

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rhaig 0]

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The people who seem to think that a national ID card is the spawn of satan incarnate.. need to pull their collective heads out of each others collective asses.

yeah... you're right... why bother listening to the ACLU

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE.. a right winger supporting the ACLU?????????????


WTF...... next thing you know there will be dogs and cats living together....

on some issues I'm rather liberal. you labeled me. I don't like it (and I disagree). But I'll let it slide.

In any case, there's already cooperation between states regarding their DL databases, so we effectively have such a system. The problem is the standards for getting a DL in states like CA where you don't need to show even a poorly forged SS card.

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

Agreed. And you can't do that with an ID until you've closed the door (border).

Eau Contrare.

One simple law.. one that is enforced can leave the borders wide open.

No ID no job, no access to health services, no access to citizenship.

Do not penalize the people coming in... jail those who would hire them. If there are no jobs that can be obtained ilegally, there is no need to come in the first place. Set up a guest worker program that allows them to work and place the onus on the employer to return them once the job is done.

Is there any other country that grants citizenship to non citizens children just by virtue of their getting over the border in time for the birth to occur in our country???

[rushmc 23]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

Agreed. And you can't do that with an ID until you've closed the door (border).

Eau Contrare.

One simple law.. one that is enforced can leave the borders wide open.

No ID no job, no access to health services, no access to citizenship.

Do not penalize the people coming in... jail those who would hire them. If there are no jobs that can be obtained ilegally, there is no need to come in the first place. Set up a guest worker program that allows them to work and place the onus on the employer to return them once the job is done.

Is there any other country that grants citizenship to non citizens children just by virtue of their getting over the border in time for the birth to occur in our country???

An employer I know has had a person working for him for two years
When he hired him he demanded all the documentation he needed SSN, birth cert drivers license. He had them all. He ran the number through what ever system the feds have in place. All checked out. He sent in the W2 this year (the second year) and got back a letter saying it was not legit. He approached the employee and he told him he could have all new numbers by the next day.

He has let him go and contacted the feds and the IRS about this

Should the employer go to jail?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

Agreed. And you can't do that with an ID until you've closed the door (border).

Eau Contrare.

One simple law.. one that is enforced can leave the borders wide open.

No ID no job, no access to health services, no access to citizenship.

Do not penalize the people coming in... jail those who would hire them. If there are no jobs that can be obtained ilegally, there is no need to come in the first place. Set up a guest worker program that allows them to work and place the onus on the employer to return them once the job is done.

Is there any other country that grants citizenship to non citizens children just by virtue of their getting over the border in time for the birth to occur in our country???

An employer I know has had a person working for him for two years
When he hired him he demanded all the documentation he needed SSN, birth cert drivers license. He had them all. He ran the number through what ever system the feds have in place. All checked out. He sent in the W2 this year (the second year) and got back a letter saying it was not legit. He approached the employee and he told him he could have all new numbers by the next day.

He has let him go and contacted the feds and the IRS about this

Should he go to jail?

Nope

He has done what a reasonable man should do. It would be nice if the Immigration people would now do the needfull and remove the offender and use the same tactics they use on drug suspects to find the person who is breaking federal laws by providing false ID. I am good with burying for life any person creating the false papers in a federal prison.

Someone capable of creating false documents is a national security threat that I think is treason... selling out your country for money needs to be dealt with harshly in this day and age.

[rushmc 23]

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All this talk of ID is kinda lik closing the barn door after the horse got out.

Only if you only have 1 horse ... It's still valid to secure the ones that have not got out yet.

Agreed. And you can't do that with an ID until you've closed the door (border).

Eau Contrare.

One simple law.. one that is enforced can leave the borders wide open.

No ID no job, no access to health services, no access to citizenship.

Do not penalize the people coming in... jail those who would hire them. If there are no jobs that can be obtained ilegally, there is no need to come in the first place. Set up a guest worker program that allows them to work and place the onus on the employer to return them once the job is done.

Is there any other country that grants citizenship to non citizens children just by virtue of their getting over the border in time for the birth to occur in our country???

An employer I know has had a person working for him for two years
When he hired him he demanded all the documentation he needed SSN, birth cert drivers license. He had them all. He ran the number through what ever system the feds have in place. All checked out. He sent in the W2 this year (the second year) and got back a letter saying it was not legit. He approached the employee and he told him he could have all new numbers by the next day.

He has let him go and contacted the feds and the IRS about this

Should he go to jail?

Nope

He has done what a reasonable man should do. It would be nice if the Immigration people would now do the needfull and remove the offender and use the same tactics they use on drug suspects to find the person who is breaking federal laws by providing false ID. I am good with burying for life any person creating the false papers in a federal prison

More to the point is how easy it is to get the docs to fool most employers. And I really dont think the majority of employers intentionaly hire them.

Generally speaking, I do not think going after employers is what is needed for the primary fix

Linked state identification or fed identification is

Even though we know those can be forged as well

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Nope, I don't like it. A national ID card that's optional to carry today is likely to eventually become mandatory to carry some time in the very foreseeable future. It's the first step on the slippery step to "Papers, please." No, thanks.

[Amazon 7]

Trust me... the data is out there in the government databases..... its just not that hard to track ANY citizen with even the slightest desire to do so by any agency.

[airdvr 210]

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He has let him go and contacted the feds and the IRS about this

Should the employer go to jail?

And you're talking about those who try and do the right thing. There's also plenty that don't and never will. Any idea how much $$ is saved by a business by paying anyone under the table? Alot.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

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He has let him go and contacted the feds and the IRS about this

Should the employer go to jail?

And you're talking about those who try and do the right thing. There's also plenty that don't and never will. Any idea how much $$ is saved by a business by paying anyone under the table? Alot.

Some? Ya, I can see that
Alot?
I find that hard to believe
I would want more info to buy on to that
But that is just me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

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selling out your country for money needs to be dealt with harshly in this day and age.

Are you kidding? It's the new(ish) american way...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.