Gawain 0 #51 May 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteIn the US, such arbitrary requests by authorities is unconstitutional. With probable cause, it's allowed, but rarely arbitrary... Arbitrary requests by authorities is unconstitutional here too. I never stated anything to the contrary. Well, you did indicate that there is a time where that is appropriate. There is no constitutional mandate for a national ID program. The nation has 50 states to whom several powers are reserved.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #52 May 3, 2010 actually the way it's worded, the states have all but a few powers that are granted explicitly to the federal government. Not that the states have powers granted to then by the federal government.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #53 May 3, 2010 Quote We have had simular laws on the books forever, EVERYONE has to carry a legal ID , to not do so can cost you a minumu of 24 hours in jail... I know, I had to do that in Ohio, New York, Illinoise,Missouri, and Tennessee back when I was a teen and traveling the country....worked out in my favor though, I got a bed and three meals for a day! This is certainly not the law everywhere. It would be a state law and it certainly is not true in my state. I'd have to start carrying an ID when I go out running, that would suck. Here's a somewhat dated reference that indicates that states might be able to impose such a requirement, I can't really find a resolution to this case in the few minutes I have w/ google here at work. Edited to add: I see that this has largely been addressed already."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #54 May 3, 2010 Quote actually the way it's worded, the states have all but a few powers that are granted explicitly to the federal government. Not that the states have powers granted to then by the federal government. You are correct. Thanks for clarifying that. Sh*t's so f*cked up in DC that even I'm making errors about the intent of our Constitution...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #55 May 3, 2010 the intent of the law ( and the result, IMO ) is so cops can take action after illegals have run over your kid or t-boned you in your car. And that's really what the deal is. Dave in Phoenix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #56 May 3, 2010 >the intent of the law ( and the result, IMO ) is so cops can take action >after illegals have run over your kid or t-boned you in your car. They can do that now, so clearly that's not the intent of the law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #57 May 3, 2010 Quote>the intent of the law ( and the result, IMO ) is so cops can take action >after illegals have run over your kid or t-boned you in your car. They can do that now, so clearly that's not the intent of the law. This law requires them to do it, whereas that is not always done for whatever reason (like lack of support from ICE).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #58 May 3, 2010 >This law requires them to do it . . . Right. I said they CAN do that now, so clearly that's not the intent of the law. dks13827 claimed that they could not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #59 May 3, 2010 Quote >This law requires them to do it . . . Right. I said they CAN do that now, so clearly that's not the intent of the law. dks13827 claimed that they could not. Well, they "can" now, but in the future they "must". That's a compelling difference. Compare and contrast to the standing order to LA City police...dks13827 really didn't make such a claim, he simply said, "...so police can..." but I understand your point.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #60 May 6, 2010 Quotea democrat proposal for a National ID Comparing a law to a proposal is like comparing an idea to an action. There's a long way between the two. Here's a video that explains the difference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQTrapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,032 #61 May 6, 2010 Quote Maybe I'm in the minority here but my issues with illegals is more that they are not paying income taxes for the services they use which is one of the reasons why we are in such debt, While that is no doubt the case for SOME illegals, I am equally sure that on aggregate the data show that illegals pay sufficient taxes to pay for the services they use, and more besides. reason.org/news/show/122411.html Why don't you have an issue with those fine upstanding American businessmen who hire illegals in order to make more profit?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #62 May 6, 2010 Ah - I just noticed: Quote a democrat proposal And thus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(phrase) Glad to be of help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #63 May 6, 2010 Interesting article, I knew about the social security piece and no matter how many fake dependents they take to minimize witholding they still have to pay that portion. As they are illegal, probably impossible to actually get statistics on all those not working or working under the table to see if they truly are paying more than the services the group as a whole uses. Quote Why don't you have an issue with those fine upstanding American businessmen who hire illegals in order to make more profit? Why are you implying I don't? I know the illegal immigrant problem lies both with them coming illegally and those that hire them illegally. There should be measures to discourage both actions. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #64 May 6, 2010 there is a big difference between 'national IDs' which serve some purpose for security, versus having the right to stop you and ASK for that ID just because of the way you look. personally I am not necessarily in favor of adding another layer of bureacracy just for identification. We already have plenty of IDs out there. Paaports, SSN's, drivers licenses. Maybe we just need to tighten up the regs on those first and make them a little more stringent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
