Ticket Please

[kallend 2,106]

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>what is your issue on getting rid of the high cost, revenue sucking,
>and thieving illegals?

No problem at all; indeed, if we got rid of the high cost, revenue sucking and thieving citizens at the same time, we'd be doing even better.

However, I'm also in favor of keeping the hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying illegals and finding a way to let them work legally.

then let them fill out the paperwork and become legal and the problem would be solved. In the mean time send them home and make them earn the trip here and maybe they will apreciate being here more.

Tell us, what paperwork is available to be filled out by a hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying foreigner who wants to come and work here in a chicken plant or as a farm worker?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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>what is your issue on getting rid of the high cost, revenue sucking,
>and thieving illegals?

No problem at all; indeed, if we got rid of the high cost, revenue sucking and thieving citizens at the same time, we'd be doing even better.

However, I'm also in favor of keeping the hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying illegals and finding a way to let them work legally.

then let them fill out the paperwork and become legal and the problem would be solved. In the mean time send them home and make them earn the trip here and maybe they will apreciate being here more.

Tell us, what paperwork is available to be filled out by a hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying foreigner who wants to come and work here in a chicken plant or as a farm worker?

the papers that make them legal to be here, you should know, like the ones you filled out to be here. You of all people should apreciate the aliens that fill out papers and do what is legal and right to be here.

[kallend 2,106]

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>what is your issue on getting rid of the high cost, revenue sucking,
>and thieving illegals?

No problem at all; indeed, if we got rid of the high cost, revenue sucking and thieving citizens at the same time, we'd be doing even better.

However, I'm also in favor of keeping the hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying illegals and finding a way to let them work legally.

then let them fill out the paperwork and become legal and the problem would be solved. In the mean time send them home and make them earn the trip here and maybe they will apreciate being here more.

Tell us, what paperwork is available to be filled out by a hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying foreigner who wants to come and work here in a chicken plant or as a farm worker?

the papers that make them legal to be here, you should know, like the ones you filled out to be here. You of all people should apreciate the aliens that fill out papers and do what is legal and right to be here.

My experience is not relevant - I didn't want to work in the fields or a chicken plant. It's (relatively) easy for people with PhDs.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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Don't you agree it's more than a little hypocritical and disingenuous to tell people they must come here legally, when (for the great majority of them) there is no way for them to do that?

Don

So it is ok to be here illegal becuase there is an issue with the law that you disagree with? Did you ever think there are limits to what a country can handle so the limts are designed to keep the flow of immagrants to a manageable level and keep the possible crooks thiefs and other undesireable people out?

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Did you ever think there are limits to what a country can handle so the limts are designed to keep the flow of immagrants to a manageable level and keep the possible crooks thiefs and other undesireable people out?

Did you ever think it's dishonest to tell people to leave and come back through the front door, when (for them) there is no front door? Do you have the cajones to say (or write) for all to see that in your mind Latin Americans are "crooks thiefs and other undesireable people"?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[marks2065 0]

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then let them fill out the paperwork and become legal and the problem would be solved. In the mean time send them home and make them earn the trip here and maybe they will apreciate being here more.

[marks2065 0]

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Did you ever think there are limits to what a country can handle so the limts are designed to keep the flow of immagrants to a manageable level and keep the possible crooks thiefs and other undesireable people out?

Did you ever think it's dishonest to tell people to leave and come back through the front door, when (for them) there is no front door? Do you have the cajones to say (or write) for all to see that in your mind Latin Americans are "crooks thiefs and other undesireable people"?

Don

I didn't say all latin american's are theifs and crooks, the front door is to weed out those that are.

[kallend 2,106]

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[reply
then let them fill out the paperwork and become legal and the problem would be solved. In the mean time send them home and make them earn the trip here and maybe they will apreciate being here more.

Tell us, what paperwork is available to be filled out by a hardworking, uncomplaining, America-supporting, taxpaying foreigner who wants to come and work here in a chicken plant or as a farm worker?

[wmw999 2,532]

The front door weeds out everyone who is poor and doesn't have a unique skill or science degree.

Is everyone who doesn't meet those qualifications a crook?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[BikerBabe 0]

mark,

what they are saying and you are ignoring is this:

There is currently NO WAY for them to leave and apply to be here legally if they want to work in a chicken plant or pick lettuce. NO POSSIBLE LEGAL WAY.

NO POSSIBLE WAY.

Now. Really stop and think about what you are saying over and over.

The trouble with the tea party rabid anti-illegal crowd is that they just don't bother to either A) consider facts, and B) think about the true consequences of the things they scream for.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[billvon 3,067]

>maybe if the illegals were sent home, then the companies would have to
>look into helping them fill out the paper work to be here legally . . .

There is no paperwork to fill out legally. There is currently no way to legally enter the country if you want to work in the fields in the quantity needed to work US farms. We should fix that, eh?

>or hire american workers at a fair wage.

Who decides what a fair wage is? You?

[airdvr 210]

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The trouble with the tea party rabid anti-illegal crowd is that they just don't bother to either A) consider facts, and B) think about the true consequences of the things they scream for.

While I'm not a tea-bagger I am a supporter of the rule of law.

Facts? OK.

a.) It is illegal to cross into this country without at a very minimum notifying the proper authorities.

b.) It is illegal for employers to hire people who are here illegally.

c.) the border between the US and Mexico is not secure.

d.) it is extremely difficult for people to enter this country legally, especially from Mexico.

Until a,b, & c are handled the people of the US will not entertain the idea of rectifying d.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 226]

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Perhaps I could have been less informal.

Why do you feel that there needs to be such a visa?
Why do you feel we should make that accomodation.

Lots of our CEOs and small business owners think there should be an accommodation. St. Ronald Reagan thought there should be an accommodation. GWB thinks there should be an accommodation. John McCain thought there should be an accommodation until it became unexpedient for him. Why do YOU think there shouldn't be one?

I never said I didn't.

I asked why there needs to be one.

And your answer in a nut shell is that because Reagan, Bush and McCain thinks there should be. Welcome to the Right, John.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,067]

>a.) It is illegal to cross into this country without at a very minimum
>notifying the proper authorities.

>b.) It is illegal for employers to hire people who are here illegally.

>c.) the border between the US and Mexico is not secure.

>d.) it is extremely difficult for people to enter this country legally, especially from Mexico.

e) it is essentially impossible for farm workers to enter the country legally.

Until e) is fixed everything else won't matter. Once e) is fixed, the rest will become a piece of cake.

If your choices are jumping a fence, swimming across a river and then hiking 30 miles through the desert while evading border patrol, vs. being turned away at a border crossing, you might take your chances on the desert. If your choices are jumping a fence, swimming across a river and then hiking 30 miles through the desert while evading border patrol vs getting in through a border checkpoint legally after a five minute wait, you're probably going to do it legally.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

I suspect that if an option was even to mail in paperwork, pay a fee, and wait 30 days for your paperwork to arrive, almost everybody would take that over jumping a fence, swimming across a river and then hiking 30 miles through the desert while evading border patrol (not to mention paying lots of $$ to a coyote who may leave you stranded in a boxcar to die of heatstroke if things look like they might go south on them). There are many disadvantages to living here illegally, and the people we want to allow in would be willing to suffer some inconvenience and expense to be able to live openly and speak up against unsafe working conditions, being ripped off by employers, etc. Realistically, the "5 minute wait" isn't going to happen (and I'm sure you meant it figuratively). Allowing a reasonable time for a background check won't dissuade people, but leaving no option other than through the desert only guarantees an ongoing problem

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[marks2065 0]

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>maybe if the illegals were sent home, then the companies would have to
>look into helping them fill out the paper work to be here legally . . .

There is no paperwork to fill out legally. There is currently no way to legally enter the country if you want to work in the fields in the quantity needed to work US farms. We should fix that, eh?

>or hire american workers at a fair wage.

Who decides what a fair wage is? You?

I think there is a minumum wage law isn't there?

[turtlespeed 226]

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>maybe if the illegals were sent home, then the companies would have to
>look into helping them fill out the paper work to be here legally . . .

There is no paperwork to fill out legally. There is currently no way to legally enter the country if you want to work in the fields in the quantity needed to work US farms. We should fix that, eh?

>or hire american workers at a fair wage.

Who decides what a fair wage is? You?

I think there is a minumum wage law isn't there?

Don't interject logic - you could be banned.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,106]

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Perhaps I could have been less informal.

Why do you feel that there needs to be such a visa?
Why do you feel we should make that accomodation.

Lots of our CEOs and small business owners think there should be an accommodation. St. Ronald Reagan thought there should be an accommodation. GWB thinks there should be an accommodation. John McCain thought there should be an accommodation until it became unexpedient for him. Why do YOU think there shouldn't be one?

I never said I didn't.

I asked why there needs to be one.

And your answer in a nut shell is that because Reagan, Bush and McCain thinks there should be. Welcome to the Right, John.

WRONG.

There should be an accommodation because that is the smart thing to do. Even GWB could reach a smart conclusion on occasion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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mark,

what they are saying and you are ignoring is this:

There is currently NO WAY for them to leave and apply to be here legally if they want to work in a chicken plant or pick lettuce. NO POSSIBLE LEGAL WAY.

NO POSSIBLE WAY.

Now. Really stop and think about what you are saying over and over.

The trouble with the tea party rabid anti-illegal crowd is that they just don't bother to either A) consider facts, and B) think about the true consequences of the things they scream for.

the fact is they are here illegally and collecting benifits and taking jobs from americans, filling our jails. lets fix these issues first then we can work on the other issue about migrant worker visas. just because there is an issue now with visas doesn't give them the right to climb a fence and break the law.

[marks2065 0]

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The front door weeds out everyone who is poor and doesn't have a unique skill or science degree.

Is everyone who doesn't meet those qualifications a crook?

Wendy P.

no but alot of them would be the ones collecting free stuff and draining our recourses like med care and welfare. If they really wanted to come here they would do what is needed.

[shropshire 0]

America has let in more than it's fair share of criminals and undesirables - when it suits!!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,067]

> If they really wanted to come here they would do what is needed.

THEY CAN'T DO WHAT IS NEEDED. There is no such thing. It's like banning gun ownership completely, then saying "well, if you really wanted to own a gun you'd do what was needed to own one. So you must not really want one."

[aphid 0]

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I think there is a minumum wage law isn't there?

Don't interject logic - you could be banned.

I have been told by farmers I know (but I have no independent confirmation, so perhaps an AZ expert could), that in the State of Arizona, minimum wage legislation is waived for agricultural employees and also service staff (waiters/waitresses).

[marks2065 0]

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I think there is a minumum wage law isn't there?

Don't interject logic - you could be banned.

I have been told by farmers I know (but I have no independent confirmation, so perhaps an AZ expert could), that in the State of Arizona, minimum wage legislation is waived for agricultural employees and also service staff (waiters/waitresses).

I know the waitress one but they do get tips that is why they are waived.

[marks2065 0]

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> If they really wanted to come here they would do what is needed.

THEY CAN'T DO WHAT IS NEEDED. There is no such thing. It's like banning gun ownership completely, then saying "well, if you really wanted to own a gun you'd do what was needed to own one. So you must not really want one."

Bullshit, it is the limit that keeps them out. I know people that have come here that do not have the skills but did file the paperwork and got granted the visa and then got their citizenship.