60 Minutes - Deepwater Horizon's Blowout Story

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The amazing story of what really happened and who is to blame.

Part 1
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minutes/video/?pid=0QTplOIQZdImAkzJqPt1LNLcjf_YDWcj&vs=homepage&play=true

Part 2
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minutes/video/?pid=7KYpOXIbbFd9R_2YQBpQsdFhU3AD_YM7&vs=homepage&play=true

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[AndyBoyd 0]

Thanks for the links. Not exactly Big Oil's finest moment. I suppose I will be accused of being a "tree hugger" or worse by the more conservative posters here, but that's fine. This has the potential to be an absolutely catastrophic environmental disaster. It's amazing that BP, Transocean, and Halliburton could be so careless. There are more important things in the world than corporate profits.

[quade 4]

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Thanks for the links. Not exactly Big Oil's finest moment. I suppose I will be accused of being a "tree hugger" or worse by the more conservative posters here, but that's fine. This has the potential to be an absolutely catastrophic environmental disaster. It's amazing that BP, Transocean, and Halliburton could be so careless. There are more important things in the world than corporate profits.

What I got out of the report was that Transocean and Halliburton were trying to do their jobs and BP was pressuring them to complete the job faster and in a non-standard way. If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[AndyBoyd 0]

It does seem that BP was the more culpable party, but as far as I am concerned all 3 of these companies were in this together. The oil may have spread to Key West already.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_oil_rig_leak

[base851 0]

Ultimately, we ourselves are to blame. The solution is not more regulation, but something few ... producer or consumer... are doing anything about.

[jgoose71 0]

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Thanks for the links. Not exactly Big Oil's finest moment. I suppose I will be accused of being a "tree hugger" or worse by the more conservative posters here, but that's fine. This has the potential to be an absolutely catastrophic environmental disaster. It's amazing that BP, Transocean, and Halliburton could be so careless. There are more important things in the world than corporate profits.

What I got out of the report was that Transocean and Halliburton were trying to do their jobs and BP was pressuring them to complete the job faster and in a non-standard way. If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Agreed. Transocean owns and operates the rig and should know all of the safety precautions that need to be followed to do the job safely.

If a BP Exec came in and played the "Golden rule. I have the gold, I make the rules" bit and over ruled the Transocean safety precautions, especially knowing the difficulties drilling at the site, that is gross negligence to the Nth degree. Heads need to roll.

It's pretty convenient that an Engineer witnessed all of the bickering and in-fighting survived the indecent. He should make a very credible witness in the court case.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[kelpdiver 2]

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Which ones?

[quade 4]

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Which ones?

Specifically? The ones that pushed to do non-standard work and anyone that gave the go ahead to perform work without standard safety measures in place.

Did you watch the report?

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Which ones?

Specifically? The ones that pushed to do non-standard work and anyone that gave the go ahead to perform work without standard safety measures in place.

Did you watch the report?

no...working.

Just wondering if this was another one of your not really serious "let's punish them more than murderers" type postings, or if you really intended that message. If so, what standard of negligence warrants a life sentence.

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If so, what standard of negligence warrants a life sentence.

That which causes the loss of life on a mass scale. This wasn't an unforeseeable accident given the information in the report. It wasn't simply one of those "Whoops! We killed a guy" sort of things that unfortunately happen in every business from time to time. This was negligence on a massive scale that directly lead to the loss of 11 lives, destroying ecosystems and will cost billions of dollars in cleanup. It will affect entire industries along hundreds and hundreds of miles of coastland.

If that doesn't warrant a life sentence, then there is simply no point in ever having any oversight in corporate safety issues.

Watch the report tonight and get back to me. I'm curious how you feel after actually viewing it rather than simply speculating on how you think I see the world.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Which ones?

Specifically? The ones that pushed to do non-standard work and anyone that gave the go ahead to perform work without standard safety measures in place.

Did you watch the report?

no...working.

Just wondering if this was another one of your not really serious "let's punish them more than murderers" type postings, or if you really intended that message. If so, what standard of negligence warrants a life sentence.

One could argue that this level of deliberate disregard for safety reaches the level of "reckless behavior" instead of negligent.

And 11 counts of reckless homicide is pretty serious.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[riddler 0]

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Sure they do, but as they are a big oil company, the government will give them a lazy slap on the wrist, followed by a flirtatious grab of the butt (and maybe an indecent proposition).

In 2006, BP had a pipe leak that spilled a quarter-million gallons of crude into Alaska's ecosystem. They got probation and a $20 million dollar fine. It takes BP just under fifteen minutes to earn $20 million.

Seriously, everyone at the oil companies and in the government is laughing at what a bunch of Rubes we Americans are, even as they are acting over-worked, shocked and outraged on television.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[base851 0]

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If that doesn't warrant a life sentence, then there is simply no point in ever having any oversight in corporate safety issues.

It would probably warrant it, but I doubt anything like that will result. The executives responsible for probably the most extreme case of gross corporate negligence... the Ford Pinto... didn't even get jail time. Then again, WorldCom's Bernard Ebbers was effectively given a life sentence without killing anyone.

Gotta wonder sometimes...

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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What I got out of the report was that Transocean and Halliburton were trying to do their jobs and BP was pressuring them to complete the job faster and in a non-standard way. If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

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If the facts as detailed in the report are true, the BP execs need to go to jail for life.

Which ones?

Specifically? The ones that pushed to do non-standard work and anyone that gave the go ahead to perform work without standard safety measures in place.

Let's examine that idea for a moment. Transocean is the owner of the rig and is responsible for it's safe operation. They not only have a vested interest in doing it safely, but carry none of the financial burden for slowing the process down. The customer (BP) pressures them to cut corners and therefore the customer is responsible. I don't think so. BP is the lease-holder and thus liable for all the damage. Any criminal responsibility however, belongs to the educated and informed operators (TO) who allowed the customer's fiscal concerns to lead them to proceed in a manner they knew to be inappropriate.
A similar situation would occur if a dropzone owner pushed his airlift provider to operate in IMC or to fly before an AME (A&P) looked at the plane when the company procedures indicated it was necessary. The DZO might be a dick, but any criminal responsibility falls to the aircraft owner and/or the pilot.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If that doesn't warrant a life sentence, then there is simply no point in ever having any oversight in corporate safety issues.

In the US, life sentences are given out for acts of malice, not negligence. And especially not for "I don't like those people."

And Andrew's points should be considered closely. There's a world of difference between sloppy and intentful homicide. It's not good business for BP to kill that rig, so I have no cause to see this act as intentional.

Large fines could be warranted, but criminal sentencing guidelines are quite different from what your emotional response is dictating.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Large fines could be warranted...

I understand your point, but I wonder if fines could be levied against individual company officers as well as against the corporation. It seems to me that fines against the corporation can be passed on to customers over time, and if no actual individuals experience any adverse repercussions from their reckless behavior there may not be much to deter such behavior in the future.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 2,106]

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If that doesn't warrant a life sentence, then there is simply no point in ever having any oversight in corporate safety issues.

It would probably warrant it, but I doubt anything like that will result. The executives responsible for probably the most extreme case of gross corporate negligence... the Ford Pinto... didn't even get jail time. Then again, WorldCom's Bernard Ebbers was effectively given a life sentence without killing anyone.

Gotta wonder sometimes...

Yes, but Ebbers stole money from rich people, which is much more serious than killing a few workers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Large fines could be warranted, but criminal sentencing guidelines are quite different from what your emotional response is dictating.

I disagree. This is not an emotional response, this is a reasoned one.

To company officers, fines (even as large as those mentioned earlier in the thread of upwards of $20 million) are a slap on the wrist. To ensure corporate officers take safety seriously, they need to be punished in a way that ensures they can never again have the same kind of responsibility and it needs to serve as a very serious warning to all other corporate officers as well.

Again, have you actually seen the report yet?

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,070]

>Ultimately, we ourselves are to blame. The solution is not more
>regulation, but something few ... producer or consumer... are doing
> anything about.

Agreed, and that's why we're making so little progress in ending our dependence on oil. Right now there's a huge amount of public pressure to hold the people responsible this accountable. And that's good in terms of ensuring it doesn't happen in the future, but that's only a small part of the problem. Until we start applying the same pressure to companies, organizations and even individuals who waste oil instead of using alternatives we'll continue to see these problems.

[Wonderful 0]

The 60 minutes story sounds so much like my experiences working for a contractor for an oil company in the oilpatch. (admittedly on solid ground and only for a few years)What I mean is they follow the safety rules and procedures just fine when things are going well and on budget.

However once they start to have trouble through mistakes, unanticipated difficulties, or just plain bad luck then they start to ask you to take short cuts.
Stuff that normally needed to be x-rayed or hydro-tested (according to company rules and the law) was to be bolted right into production.

They were already way over budget on this well having to abandon and re-drill it. I'm sure the BP guy who was ordering them to take a shortcut was receiving enormous pressure from the higher ups at BP.

[base851 0]

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Agreed, and that's why we're making so little progress in ending our dependence on oil. Right now there's a huge amount of public pressure to hold the people responsible this accountable. And that's good in terms of ensuring it doesn't happen in the future, but that's only a small part of the problem. Until we start applying the same pressure to companies, organizations and even individuals who waste oil instead of using alternatives we'll continue to see these problems.

Exactly.

There are only suppliers where there is demand. Think people, think!

[quade 4]

Sigh. This is a bit like blaming the passengers in the airplanes for being on the them to be used against the Twin Towers. Blaming the victims of a crime might sound nice if you're a criminal trying to shift it elsewhere, but I think most people can see the rape victim wasn't really "asking for it."

Yes, in an extremely vague way the consumer market "made" BP drill for oil in exchange for the billions of dollars BP makes off the process. But holy fuck cakes, that's a tortured argument for laying blame for the "real cause" of this oil spill.

BP fucked up due to greed, not because the oil wasn't going to be there a few more days to do it right.

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[wmw999 2,534]

It was a compelling program, and a damning viewpoint. I'd say, though, that until they interview others (possibly from other contractors), they can't be sure they have the most complete story.

I only live a few miles from the BP plant that blew up in 2005 -- I'm not trying to say they're awesome. But let's see if we can hear more witnesses before stringing them up.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[diablopilot 2]

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Large fines could be warranted, but criminal sentencing guidelines are quite different from what your emotional response is dictating.

I disagree. This is not an emotional response, this is a reasoned one.

To company officers, fines (even as large as those mentioned earlier in the thread of upwards of $20 million) are a slap on the wrist. To ensure corporate officers take safety seriously, they need to be punished in a way that ensures they can never again have the same kind of responsibility and it needs to serve as a very serious warning to all other corporate officers as well.

Again, have you actually seen the report yet?

While you are correct that the responsible parties for the accident/mistake/intentional shortcuts, must be held responsible for their actions in both a financial, ecological, and criminal sense, i can't help but find it highly hypocritical the way so many people cry and rant about the "horror" of this spill, and then turn around and continue to enjoy their plastic filled, gas guzzling lifestyles.

Holier than thou seems to be very in vogue this week, you know?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[base851 0]

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Yes, in an extremely vague way the consumer market "made" BP drill for oil in exchange for the billions of dollars BP makes off the process. But holy fuck cakes, that's a tortured argument for laying blame for the "real cause" of this oil spill.

Actually, I'm closer to you in my overall opinion on the Horizon fiasco than you many think.

My only point is to try to get people to think a bit beyond this particular incident and more long term.

Until we actually DO something to end our insatiable hunger for oil, there will always be a push to drill for it. And when you drill enough holes, statistics, Murphy's Law and, yes, greed, will catch up to you. I'm not saying the victims are to blame. I'm saying this sort of thing is inevitable at our current pace.