Unthinkable

[Zep 0]

Wow, powerful stuff. Is it just a movie or is it a look behind the scenes,

Well worth watching.

Gone fishing

[quade 4]

Wasn't even on my radar.

Trailer looked like an episode of 24 and more bullshit Jack Bauer scenarios to attempt to justify torture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLufgELgjhk

What was good about it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyrider 0]

Can I buy a vowel Allec?

[Zep 0]

Never seen 24.
Watch it and draw your own conclusion,
Ask yourself, would you do the same if so many live were at stake

Gone fishing

[quade 4]

Quote

Never seen 24.
Watch it and draw your own conclusion,
Ask yourself, would you do the same if so many live were at stake

Watch an episode of 24 and tell me why my opinion would change after seeing this movie?
http://www.fox.com/24/

Going to move this to Speakers because that's where it's inevitably going to wind up anyway.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

What was good about it?

An action movie that might be semi-plausible, moral dilemmas, lots of violence...what is not to like? The only problem I see is the apparent lack of a hot, barely dressed chick.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

What was good about it?

An action movie that might be semi-plausible, moral dilemmas, lots of violence...what is not to like?

I asked him the question because I wanted to see where he was going with the thread.

It didn't look to me like he was going to talk about the "art" of the film and his answer convinced me it was the politics.

If that's the discussion he wants to have, then I really have to ask what would be the point of attempting to torture a person under these circumstances?

Let's say I have hidden three nuclear devices and intend on blowing up three US cities. Haven't I already made my mind up that I'm willing to die for whatever cause this is? Even if you do torture me, what prevents me from giving you just enough bullshit information to stop you from torturing me, but not enough to get you to defuse them? I could just get you to run all over town just looking for the stupid things and every time you find out the information I gave you is bullshit, you'd have to come back and torture me again at which point the cycle would repeat. However, in any case, I'd be 100% certain you wouldn't actually kill me since that would guarantee the bombs would go off as planned.

How do you even take me into custody to begin with? If I have the capability to place three nuclear bombs in three different cities, I certainly have the capabilities to avoid capture until the deadline. Remember, I planted them in secret. It's not like there's a smoking vehicle in Times Square. You don't know they're there.

The logic hole of the "Jack Bauer scenario" is simply ludicrous. With three bombs under my control, I win no matter what. I simply stagger them to blow up at one hour intervals. After the first one goes off, I'm pretty sure you'll give me whatever the fuck I want.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 102]

Right, it is a no-win scenario, but as a movie viewer you expect that the good guys will prevail at least in part - a somewhat happy ending, and we want to see how they will do it.

24 was awesome. Bauer would be interrogating a guy he knew wouldn't break due to torture, and his wife was also there, so he would shoot the guy's wife right in the knee! You don't get that kind of action anywhere else on TV!

As you said, the guy in Unthinkable won't talk because of torture to himself, but perhaps getting someone he does care about into the picture would work. It makes me wonder, makes me want to see it.

Not everyone likes that type of action movie, I don't like horror movies.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Zep 0]

You obviously havent seen the movie.
The guy was a terrorist, he wanted to be caught, he was convinced that his ex wife
and children were safely out of the country,
He was an ex USAF explosives expert, had planted five bombs but only disclosing three,
He knew he would be tortured and I think that was his way of paying penance
for the pending carnage.

In his state of mind his demands where justified and in the end he won.

What I found very disconcerting was the fact that a FBI agent was willing to
sacrifice the lives of 30 million people just to be politicaly correct.

Gone fishing

[quade 4]

Now reread what you just wrote.

The guy wins. I don't need to see the movie. The trailer tells me everything I need to know about the scenario. Logically, he'd win every time. And he did, so it doesn't change my opinion of the concept at all.

What would be interesting would be if the writer could find a solution that actually would justify torture. The problem would be finding an instance where logically it would be justified.

Ever see the movie "The Maltese Falcon"? There's a scene in it where torture is dismissed as ineffective with just a couple of words. I'd like to see the opposite and have it make sense, but I never have.

It has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has everything to do with what actually works on real terrorists.

The idea of torture works on "normal" people because they can't imagine being able to take the pain and they are pretty sure they'd spill their guts. The reality is a person can be pushed so far he'll say anything he thinks you -want- him to say in order to stop the pain, which is ineffective because what you really want him to tell you is the absolute truth, but he just wants the pain to stop.

Or . . . you push it too far and he dies . . . in which case the bombs go off anyway.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zep 0]

So what you are saying is that a dedicated terrorist will win every time
despite the interrogation techniques used.

Sobering thought.

Gone fishing

[DARK 0]

Quote

You obviously havent seen the movie.
The guy was a terrorist, he wanted to be caught, he was convinced that his ex wife
and children were safely out of the country,
He was an ex USAF explosives expert, had planted five bombs but only disclosing three,
He knew he would be tortured and I think that was his way of paying penance
for the pending carnage.

In his state of mind his demands where justified and in the end he won.

What I found very disconcerting was the fact that a FBI agent was willing to
sacrifice the lives of 30 million people just to be politicaly correct.

tell me you didnt just give away the fucking ending

[sundevil777 102]

What were his demands?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Zep 0]

tell me you didnt just give away the fucking ending


No I was careful not to give away the ending.
Watch the movie you may or may not enjoy it
according to your PCness.

Gone fishing

[Zep 0]

Quote

Can I buy a vowel Allec?

Woosh, that went staight over my head.
Explain for us non PC people.

Now Im off to demonoid to down load 24 so I can see what Quade is on about.

Gone fishing

[DARK 0]

Quote

tell me you didnt just give away the fucking ending


No I was careful not to give away the ending.
Watch the movie you may or may not enjoy it
according to your PCness.

just downloaded it there

its a good film brings up some interesting questions that most people dont think about

personally i havnt decided if any means necessary is the right thing to do or not

its not a groundbreaking film or anything but its worth a watch

[sundevil777 102]

24 is awesome, my sons and I get a barrel of laughs from every episode. Much more entertaining than the ordinary action show.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am