Lockpicks - Illegal To Own

[JohnRich 4]

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Are you comfortable knowing that pretty much anyone else can get the necessary tools to pick their way through your door ?

If they couldn't, a little work with a grinder can turn street sweeper bristles into lock picks. Or windshield wiper inserts. Or bicycle spokes.

Gosh darn it, now we're going to have to ban the possession of loose street sweeper bristles, wiper blade inserts and bicycle spokes. Just imagine all the drivers and bike-riding kids whose lives are going to be innocently destroyed in this crackdown on illegal lock pick tools. What a shame.

Hey, I've got a brilliant idea. How about we just punish people who actually break into homes, regardless of how they do it, and leave people alone if they just happen to own lock picks for personal use.

Nah, that'll never fly in the legislature...

[theonlyski 8]

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Just buy them online, and no one will ask you silly questions.

+1 I bought my first few sets online, now that I have a really nice kit, I shouldnt have to buy anymore for a while.

and it was a freebie

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Southern_Man 0]

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So basically, MacGuyver has to live in an empty house.

MacGyver can use a scrambled egg to pick a lock.

Chuck Norris just roundhouse kicks the door in.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[turtlespeed 221]

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So basically, MacGuyver has to live in an empty house.

MacGyver can use a scrambled egg to pick a lock.

Chuck Norris just roundhouse kicks the door in.

Chuck Norris just looks at the door and it submits!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wayneflorida 0]

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By joining this post we are subject to the Rico act

What part of Rico applies to talking about what may be legal? Even if illegal, civil or criminal RICO, I imagine you mean civil forfeiture, how is this subject to RICO?

Sorry, just trying to be humorless.

[motomike 1]

If not licensed and caught with lock picks, you are subject to possesion of burglar tools.

The locksmith industry is now a "regulated" industry :)

So the locksmith wouldnt sell them or give them to you for two reason... He didnt want to be an accomplice. You might be taking his business :)

From one safe cracker to another.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Maybe its because our crime rate warrants such a law.

Indeed.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37593430/ns/sports-world_cup/

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World Cup photographer robbed at gunpoint

[ryoder 1,590]

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What is a "hobbyist" when it comes to picking locks? Just walk around and see if you can open something that you should not be opening? Or do you like to lock yourself out of the house and see if you can get back in?

If people can own guns to enter sporting competitions, (as opposed to using them for murder), why can't people own lockpicks to enter competitions?
For example:

http://wiki.whatthehack.org/index.php/The_Dutch_Open_2005_Lockpicking_Championship_has_been_won_by_Thorsten_Quast.

Even better link:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/lockbusters.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[virgin-burner 1]

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I went into a locksmith the other week to buy a new set of picks. I am no expert by any means but I do enjoy picking and have had some good success.

When i asked the locksmith if he had any picks he got really defensive asking if i was a smith, i replied "No, I'm a hobbyist."

Well strike me down, you'd have thought i was asking where to buy a radioactive bomb to plant in the middle of the city. I was told they are ILLEGAL to own as they are burglar tools. This was in Ohio, I'm not sure about other states.

So for the average citizen, you can buy a firearm but not own a set of lock picks. Land of the free indeed.

pretty much the same applies here for what i know; but no-one would ever really mind if i carried my sig-550 into a shop and bought a pack of crackers..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[AggieDave 6]

In Texas there really isn't anything listed as a "burglary tool." It all depends on the totality of the situation in which you're contacted with the tools.

You're caught in a neighborhood where there have been a lot of BMVs and you have a history of BMVs on your CCH, you don't live in the neighborhood AND you have porcelain chips from spark plugs in a baggy, well, you might just have burglary tools.

If you're caught at your own house picking your own locks with your own picks, you might just get a laugh and an officer who thinks that you knowing how to pick your own locks is pretty cool!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 2]

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In Texas there really isn't anything listed as a "burglary tool." It all depends on the totality of the situation in which you're contacted with the tools.

You're caught in a neighborhood where there have been a lot of BMVs and you have a history of BMVs on your CCH, you don't live in the neighborhood AND you have porcelain chips from spark plugs in a baggy, well, you might just have burglary tools.

If you're caught at your own house picking your own locks with your own picks, you might just get a laugh and an officer who thinks that you knowing how to pick your own locks is pretty cool!

Yes. That kind of general statutory approach to this issue is being used by most US states these days. It tries to strike a realistic balance among protection, practicality, constitutionality, etc. FWIW, since Ohio was being discussed, that's the kind of statute that Ohio now has, too:

http://law.justia.com/ohio/codes/orc/jd_292324-9c53.html

(Note - read not just the statute text, but also the official commentary under the text.)

[AggieDave 6]

So most likely the business was trying to cover its ass and refusing to sell something that is otherwise legal to sell. That's understandable from the business stand point, but annoying just the same.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 2]

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So most likely the business was trying to cover its ass and refusing to sell something that is otherwise legal to sell. That's understandable from the business stand point, but annoying just the same.

Yes; although the official comment to the statute does note that it replaces an older Ohio statute that apparently did specifically prohibit "burglar's tools", so maybe the shop owner presumed that the old statute was still in effect. Or, considering who the "customer" was, maybe he felt it was his duty to protect society.

[AggieDave 6]

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Or, considering who the "customer" was, maybe he felt it was his duty to protect society.

This is the most likely answer!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[turtlespeed 221]

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Or, considering who the "customer" was, maybe he felt it was his duty to protect society.

Could have been the first name . . . ya never know . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Lucky... 0]

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I never said criminal. I have helped people get into their cars with hangers back in the day. just curious as to how picking locks could be a hobby. Does he have a bunch of locks around the house that he plays with when bored? Just curious

by the same logic it should be illegal to own guns if you are not a LEO, don't compete and live in a nice neighborhood, as that eliminates the need to defend oneself.

Seriously, as silly as some hobbies are, people are allowed to own things that can be used for criminal acts - that does not make those people criminals.

For the record I own a couple of sets of lockpicks, bumpkeys, and various other tools that any BASE jumper should be proficient with. Just buy them online, and no one will ask you silly questions.

[Lucky... 0]

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By joining this post we are subject to the Rico act

What part of Rico applies to talking about what may be legal? Even if illegal, civil or criminal RICO, I imagine you mean civil forfeiture, how is this subject to RICO?

Sorry, just trying to be humorless.

My bad, thought you were being serious.

[Lucky... 0]

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Are you comfortable knowing that pretty much anyone else can get the necessary tools to pick their way through your door ? (..assuming lockpicks are legal there, of course).

They can also throw a rock through a window, or kick open the door.
Banning the sale of lockpicks isn't going to stop a criminal.

Lock picks don't pick locks, people do!

You'll have to pry my pics from my cold, dead fingers.

[ridestrong 1]

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Or this little site could help . . .

I have a set that is slighlty more advanced than the "beginer" set on that site.

I can pick most Master pad locks in less than a minute. And I have picked every dead-bolt I've ever attempted, some took significantly longer than others.

Good thread... I'm going to have to grab my set and a pad lock now.

ETA: just wanted to add that out of the 12 or so picks that my set came with, I only use about 3 of them almost exclusively.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[Halfpastniner 0]

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Or this little site could help . . .

I have a set that is slighlty more advanced than the "beginer" set on that site.

I can pick most Master pad locks in less than a minute. And I have picked every dead-bolt I've ever attempted, some took significantly longer than others.

Good thread... I'm going to have to grab my set and a pad lock now.

I can usually pick a master lock in under a minute. Anything more complicated than that, I dont stand a chance.

Anyone have luck with those auto pick guns?

BASE 1384

[Halfpastniner 0]

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I went into a locksmith the other week to buy a new set of picks. I am no expert by any means but I do enjoy picking and have had some good success.

When i asked the locksmith if he had any picks he got really defensive asking if i was a smith, i replied "No, I'm a hobbyist."

Well strike me down, you'd have thought i was asking where to buy a radioactive bomb to plant in the middle of the city. I was told they are ILLEGAL to own as they are burglar tools. This was in Ohio, I'm not sure about other states.

So for the average citizen, you can buy a firearm but not own a set of lock picks. Land of the free indeed.

Did you tell him it's ok as you are an illegal tool yourself?

BASE 1384

[The111 1]

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Seriously, as silly as some hobbies are, people are allowed to own things that can be used for criminal acts - that does not make those people criminals.

not in liberal land where crime isn't about your ACTIONS, just the property you might own

I'm a liberal (if I have to pick a title), and I think lockpicks should be legal to own.

For that matter, aren't liberals more likely to think drugs should be legal to own, compared to conservatives? I.e. punish the actions, not the ownership?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[metalslug 36]

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If people can own guns to enter sporting competitions, (as opposed to using them for murder), why can't people own lockpicks to enter competitions?

No matter what your reason for owning a firearm (which I fully support), everyone needs a permit, correct ?
...and there's an age requirement when purchasing alcohol, correct ?

I see some comments drawing parallels between the lockpick issue and owning firearms or buying beer.
IMO, the connection to those two issues is only relevant if you agree that some sort of limiting legislation should apply to owning lockpicks.

It seems to be generally agreed in this forum that most homes, including locked doors, present no significant barrier to anyone.
So, if you are in the habbit of locking your home or placing locks on anything, then why bother ?

Does the legal definition change if an unwelcome stranger entered your home through an unlocked door vs entering through a window or a picked locked ? (Trespassing vs B&E perhaps ?)
Is an insurance claim any easier if your items were stolen from a locked home/container vs. an unlocked one ?

To clarify again; If locks present no real physical barrier, since everyone should be allowed to freely own lockpicks, then is it fair to say that locks are a mere legal formality when defining the context of a theft or security breach, if that should occur ?

[rhaig 0]

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For that matter, aren't liberals more likely to think drugs should be legal to own, compared to conservatives? I.e. punish the actions, not the ownership?

punish the actions not the ownership takes on different meanings with different liberals. especially when you start changing what is owned.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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No matter what your reason for owning a firearm (which I fully support), everyone needs a permit, correct ?


nope. background check is all in most places. You need a permit if you wish to carry the weapon concealed on your person.
***
To clarify again; If locks present no real physical barrier, since everyone should be allowed to freely own lockpicks, then is it fair to say that locks are a mere legal formality when defining the context of a theft or security breach, if that should occur ?

Locks keep the honest people honest. A real thief will bypass a lock every time without any problem. They're a formality, an effective (to a certain degree) safeguard, and they give the ignorant some peace of mind. (not ignorant in a bad way, but by the actual definition of the word)

--
Rob