Obama Liar Liar

[rushmc 23]

from AP found on NewMax

Obama is making his supporters look really stupid

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Obama Breaks Promise on Healthcare Reform Coverage


Over and over in the healthcare debate, President Barack Obama said people who like their current coverage would be able to keep it.

But an early draft of an administration regulation estimates that many employers will be forced to make changes to their health plans under the new law. In just three years, a majority of workers — 51 percent — will be in plans subject to new federal requirements, according to the draft.

Employers say it's more evidence that the law will drive up costs. Republicans say Obama broke his promise. But some experts believe increased regulation will lead to improved benefits for consumers.

"On the face of it, having consumer protections apply to all insurance plans could be a good thing for employees," said Alex Vachon, an independent health policy consultant. "Technically, it's actually improved coverage."

The types of changes that employers would be forced to make include offering preventive care without copayments and instituting an appeals process for disputed claims that follows new federal guidelines. The law already requires all health plans to extend coverage to young adult children until they turn 26. But such changes also nudge costs up.

The Obama administration said the draft regulation is an early version undergoing revision. Nonetheless, the leaked document was getting widespread interest Friday in lobbying firms that represent employers and insurance companies and on Capitol Hill.

"What we are getting here is a clear indication that most plans will have to change," said James Gelfand, health policy director for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. "From an employer's point of view that's a bad thing. These changes, whether or not they're good for consumers, are most certainly accompanied by a cost."

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said it showed that Obama's assurance that Americans would be able to keep the plans they currently have was "a myth" all along.

"Since its passage, Republican arguments against the bill have been repeatedly vindicated, even as the administration's many promises about the bill have been called into question again and again," McConnell said. "So Democrats may have passed this bill, but the debate is far from over."

An administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the rules are still being written, said the final version will uphold Obama's promise, accommodating employers' desire for flexibility while protecting consumers from runaway costs.

Employer provided coverage is the mainstay of the nation's health insurance system and is expected to remain so even after the new health care law is fully phased in.

The main issue in the 83-page regulation is how to deal with what the government calls "grandfathered" health plans.

Those are plans that predated the healthcare law and are exempt from many, but not all, of its consumer protections. Lawmakers created the special category to deliver on Obama's promise that people can keep the coverage they have if they like it.

But health plans change frequently. Premiums and copayments keep rising. Coverage is expanded for some services and restricted for others. Lawmakers asked regulators to spell out how much an employer can change a plan and still claim it to be grandfathered, exempting it from closer federal regulation.

Employers say the draft rules are too inflexible. Generally plans can lose their protected status by increasing copayments and deductibles above certain limits. Gelfand said medical inflation alone would push many employers over the line.

How employers react to the final rules will be critical. If major companies start dropping healthcare benefits, opting instead to pay the government a penalty, Democrats would face a political backlash.

Stronger consumer protections can mean higher costs for employers. But whether there's a tipping point ahead is still unclear.

© Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[funjumper101 15]

It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that denied coverage to previously existing conditions, are deleted.

It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that made provisions for dropping coverage if you actually started making claims that are covered under other clauses in the policies, are deleted.

Yup. That will really suck.
No large corporation or insurance company stands to benefit from these changes.

Conservetards believe that anything that will be helpful to the average citizen is detrimental to business operations and will be "very bad for the economy".

"Policy changes" to over 50% of existing policies? That seems to cover the removal of the odious shit in most current health insurance policies, as mandated by the really weak "reform" that passed.


Nice try...

More RWC bullshit here. Move along, nothing to see here.

P.S. I thought RWCs were all about respect for the rule of law. The law passed, so get with the program and quit your whining and sniveling.

[Gawain 0]

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It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that denied coverage to previously existing conditions, are deleted.

It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that made provisions for dropping coverage if you actually started making claims that are covered under other clauses in the policies, are deleted.

Yup. That will really suck.
No large corporation or insurance company stands to benefit from these changes.

Conservetards believe that anything that will be helpful to the average citizen is detrimental to business operations and will be "very bad for the economy".

"Policy changes" to over 50% of existing policies? That seems to cover the removal of the odious shit in most current health insurance policies, as mandated by the really weak "reform" that passed.


Nice try...

More RWC bullshit here. Move along, nothing to see here.

P.S. I thought RWCs were all about respect for the rule of law. The law passed, so get with the program and quit your whining and sniveling.

I'm sure you think it's still only going to cost $900B or so too...even though it's already been revised higher, and the real costs are at least 2x higher...

Plans renew every year. Of course they're going to change. For that same tidy sum, coverage will drop so the insurers can pay out the nose for some person that just picked up coverage on the heels of being diagnosed with some horrific illness. Even if he/she goes on Medicaid...it doesn't matter. It's still going to be paid by...y-o-u.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[futuredivot 0]

Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Lucky... 0]

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It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that denied coverage to previously existing conditions, are deleted.

It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that made provisions for dropping coverage if you actually started making claims that are covered under other clauses in the policies, are deleted.

Yup. That will really suck.
No large corporation or insurance company stands to benefit from these changes.

Conservetards believe that anything that will be helpful to the average citizen is detrimental to business operations and will be "very bad for the economy".

"Policy changes" to over 50% of existing policies? That seems to cover the removal of the odious shit in most current health insurance policies, as mandated by the really weak "reform" that passed.


Nice try...

More RWC bullshit here. Move along, nothing to see here.

P.S. I thought RWCs were all about respect for the rule of law. The law passed, so get with the program and quit your whining and sniveling.

Of all the provisions in the weak HC Law, the preexisting allowance is the only real relevant, sweeping element. It could create a backdoor to single payer, as if it becomes no longer profitable for corps to be in the HC business, the gov would have to take over if the ins co's dropped it and ran. Most of the rest of the HC law is just parsley.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Obama Liar Liar

Obama bad! Bad!

[Lucky... 0]

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It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that denied coverage to previously existing conditions, are deleted.

It will really suck when the clauses in the policies that made provisions for dropping coverage if you actually started making claims that are covered under other clauses in the policies, are deleted.

Yup. That will really suck.
No large corporation or insurance company stands to benefit from these changes.

Conservetards believe that anything that will be helpful to the average citizen is detrimental to business operations and will be "very bad for the economy".

"Policy changes" to over 50% of existing policies? That seems to cover the removal of the odious shit in most current health insurance policies, as mandated by the really weak "reform" that passed.


Nice try...

More RWC bullshit here. Move along, nothing to see here.

P.S. I thought RWCs were all about respect for the rule of law. The law passed, so get with the program and quit your whining and sniveling.

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I'm sure you think it's still only going to cost $900B or so too...even though it's already been revised higher, and the real costs are at least 2x higher...

You don't know, so qualify your guesses at just that. While you're at it, tell us how you really care about people's health and availability to HC. Not that your position would be different if you weren't injured and getting lifetime HC, which you truely do deserve, but to hear a person who will never have any lack of HC complaining about others, incl vets like me, trying to get comprehensive HC at a reasonable cost comes off as a little elitist.

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Plans renew every year. Of course they're going to change. For that same tidy sum, coverage will drop so the insurers can pay out the nose for some person that just picked up coverage on the heels of being diagnosed with some horrific illness. Even if he/she goes on Medicaid...it doesn't matter. It's still going to be paid by...y-o-u.

It's just bizzare to hear ANY AMERICAN talking about HC as a business decision.

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[Lucky... 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

[rushmc 23]

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Obama Liar Liar

Obama bad! Bad!

So, most of the claims made by the HC oposition are now known to be true. During that debate the left claimed the right was making false claims.

I guess you are ok with a liar if your position is supported

I guess that is why you are a lawyer?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

Maybe but, one thing we do now know for sure. Drs payments under the HC bill and medicare are going to see big cuts. 3 out of 5 Hospitals will drop Medicare (because of hospital payments are to be cut as well) coverage and fewer Drs will result in what? Better cheaper HC?

But hey, lets just keep blaming Bush!!! The non thinkers will believe it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

Obama the rapper.

http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/news/201006/47119.php

[sundevil777 102]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

Maybe but, one thing we do now know for sure. Drs payments under the HC bill and medicare are going to see big cuts. 3 out of 5 Hospitals will drop Medicare (because of hospital payments are to be cut as well) coverage and fewer Drs will result in what? Better cheaper HC?

But hey, lets just keep blaming Bush!!! The non thinkers will believe it

Not to worry, it is all part of the plan. Instead of being able to actually choose whether they can drop medicare, the hospitals and doctors will simply have that choice taken away from them. No problem you see, as long as you are all in with the government controlling every aspect of health care. Come on now, you knew that was going to be part of the deal.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rushmc 23]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

Maybe but, one thing we do now know for sure. Drs payments under the HC bill and medicare are going to see big cuts. 3 out of 5 Hospitals will drop Medicare (because of hospital payments are to be cut as well) coverage and fewer Drs will result in what? Better cheaper HC?

But hey, lets just keep blaming Bush!!! The non thinkers will believe it

Not to worry, it is all part of the plan. Instead of being able to actually choose whether they can drop medicare, the hospitals and doctors will simply have that choice taken away from them. No problem you see, as long as you are all in with the government controlling every aspect of health care. Come on now, you knew that was going to be part of the deal.

Something I had thought of

And not that much of a long shot either huh?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Whatever you say, Marc.

[Lucky... 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

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Maybe but, one thing we do now know for sure. Drs payments under the HC bill and medicare are going to see big cuts. 3 out of 5 Hospitals will drop Medicare (because of hospital payments are to be cut as well) coverage and fewer Drs will result in what? Better cheaper HC?

Again, your guess, but even if right, newer docs out of med school / internship will be attracted to these jobs and the more experienced docs will go into private practice and cater to wealthy clients. So what do we have? People get the HC they can afford, what a great American concept; no one is deprived, the rich get their high-end coverage. Sounds like win-win to me, can you ague that?

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But hey, lets just keep blaming Bush!!! The non thinkers will believe it

No one blames GWb for HC, it has been a mess for decades, nice distraction tho. We can blame GWB for plenty, the debt mess, the mortgage mess, massive climbing deficit and unemployment, etc. But let's keep this thread about HC.

[Lucky... 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

Maybe but, one thing we do now know for sure. Drs payments under the HC bill and medicare are going to see big cuts. 3 out of 5 Hospitals will drop Medicare (because of hospital payments are to be cut as well) coverage and fewer Drs will result in what? Better cheaper HC?

But hey, lets just keep blaming Bush!!! The non thinkers will believe it

Not to worry, it is all part of the plan. Instead of being able to actually choose whether they can drop medicare, the hospitals and doctors will simply have that choice taken away from them. No problem you see, as long as you are all in with the government controlling every aspect of health care. Come on now, you knew that was going to be part of the deal.

As opposed to private coprporation controlling HC for their profit? I'll take the gov, at least they canbe voted out.

[rushmc 23]

I'll take the gov, at least they canbe voted out.

[rushmc 23]

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Whatever you say, Marc.

Kind of awkward when some one sets a trap that they themselves step into huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[chutem 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

I'm guessing you don't have children?

[kallend 2,032]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

I'm guessing you don't have children?

What does that have to do with anything?

I have children. On the whole I'd rather my (and their) taxes went to helping Americans than to killing brown people half a world away. But that's just me.

It's also funny how Republicans have suddenly got religion about the deficit and debt, while they hardly uttered a word of criticism when Reagan and the Bushes were racking then up.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[chutem 0]

I would also rather our tax money went to helping americans. The last ten or so years of my life have seen alot of changes in how I view many things.

I don't see how we can go on spending so much more than we take in. We certainly can no longer afford (if we ever could) to be the "world's police".

James

[lawrocket 3]

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While you're at it, tell us how you really care about people's health and availability to HC.

If a person is not covered because of a pre-existing condition today, I would suggest that people like Max care about HC availability than the person who is uncovered due to pre-existing condition.

Over and over again through the HC debate we heard the horror stories of people who could not get covered. Each and every one of them were people who COULD have been insured but made the affirmative choice NOT to be insured until they were sick or injured. Because so long as they did not go more than 59 consecutive days without coverage they would be insured against all conditions - pre-existing or otherwise.

How much did they care about the availability of HC?

Yours is the same idea as bailing out massive corporations for their ridiculous acts of irresponsibility. I'm not in the mood for covering anybody else's sorry asses for their fuckups. They fucked up. Let them take the lumps.

How many skydivers do we read about who femur in and don't have insurance, but are on their 20th jump on their new rig? They could afford in excess of five gran for their new rig but no insurance.

This is the type of priority that pisses me off. Thank you, Lucky, for having the kindness and generosity to pull money from my pocket so that this type of conduct not only is not penalized but is, in fact, subsidized. "We want to make sure that those people who did not have insurance face no consequences. The cost and consequence mus be borne by society."

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Not that your position would be different if you weren't injured and getting lifetime HC, which you truely do deserve, but to hear a person who will never have any lack of HC complaining about others, incl vets like me, trying to get comprehensive HC at a reasonable cost comes off as a little elitist.

At a "reasonable cost" to whom? You think HC is expensive now?

And, the rationing is already on the table. it will happen. The only way to achieve high quality care with low expense is to limit the availability of it.

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It's just bizzare to hear ANY AMERICAN talking about HC as a business decision.

Hmmm. Business is all about $$$. Seems to me that the entire discusion and the reason that it was passed was to change the business model of it. You are bringing up single payor.

You don't say anything about the quality or availability. You bring up "reasonable cost."

Who is speaking of business decision. YOU ARE. The cost of healthcare is not reasonable, according to you. Therefore, people will not buy it because it does not make business sense.

The left has put this in terms of money. The right has put this in terms of quality, availability and cost of healthcare.

The left, just like always, seems to like the focus on cold hard cash and how to get more of it away from businesses - and toward their pet projects.

You must be horrified with yourself for mentioning money. Money is, after all, what business is all about..

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Lucky... 0]

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I'll take the gov, at least they canbe voted out.

And they will be shortly

[Lucky... 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

I'm guessing you don't have children?

Nope, but if I did I would want to ensure they have basic HC. Do you have kids? If so, aren't you worried about corporate America and their HMO death panels?

[Lucky... 0]

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Quit acting like you'll be paying for it. Don't you believe in the magic money machine in the basement of congress creating funds out of unicorn kisses and children's laughter.

Fear-monger!

Your taxes won't increase any or anything measureable. We've been a debtor natior before we were officially a nation, Andrew Jackson dropped it almost 0, but we've been passing the debt along before we were te United States of America; quiot acting as if us payng for our predecessor's mess and passing it on to our successors was a new concept.

I'm guessing you don't have children?

What does that have to do with anything?

I have children. On the whole I'd rather my (and their) taxes went to helping Americans than to killing brown people half a world away. But that's just me.

It's also funny how Republicans have suddenly got religion about the deficit and debt, while they hardly uttered a word of criticism when Reagan and the Bushes were racking then up.

Yea, the tea baggers were but a whisper until Obama took office. Now they chide him for having to deal with their president's mess inherited over.