kallend 2,106 #1 June 23, 2010 In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #2 June 23, 2010 Quote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. It's Obama's fault, of course Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #3 June 23, 2010 Quote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. One simple fact "Previous reports by the nonprofit Fund, which conducts research into healthcare performance and which promotes changes in the U.S. system, have been heavily used by policymakers and politicians pressing for healthcare reform." So you are telling me this study did not have a bias?Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #4 June 23, 2010 QuoteQuote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. One simple fact "Previous reports by the nonprofit Fund, which conducts research into healthcare performance and which promotes changes in the U.S. system, have been heavily used by policymakers and politicians pressing for healthcare reform." So you are telling me this study did not have a bias? Policymakers reformed NASA following the commission report on the Challenger disaster. Did that make the Presidential Commission that wrote the report "biased"? Policymakers reformed rules on the use of DDT following reports of its adverse effects on wildlife. Did that make those reports "biased"? Policymakers reformed rules on the testing of drugs following reports on the Thalidomide tragedy. Di that make those reports "biased"? No doubt policymakers will reform oil drilling regulations following the various reports to be forthcoming on the BP disaster. Will make the reports "biased"? There is a total absence of logic behind your question.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #5 June 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. One simple fact "Previous reports by the nonprofit Fund, which conducts research into healthcare performance and which promotes changes in the U.S. system, have been heavily used by policymakers and politicians pressing for healthcare reform." So you are telling me this study did not have a bias? Policymakers reformed NASA following the commission report on the Challenger disaster. Did that make the Presidential Commission that wrote the report "biased"? Policymakers reformed rules on the use of DDT following reports of its adverse effects on wildlife. Did that make those reports "biased"? Policymakers reformed rules on the testing of drugs following reports on the Thalidomide tragedy. Di that make those reports "biased"? No doubt policymakers will reform oil drilling regulations following the various reports to be forthcoming on the BP disaster. Will make the reports "biased"? There is a total absence of logic behind your question. Yes it did and it was a bias that was warrented by DDT's effects, the Challenger blowing up, etc. this is a bit different.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #6 June 23, 2010 The Challenger report wasn't "biased" against O-rings. The Thalidomide report wasn't "biased" against drugs that cause deformities. Bias is not indicated by a conclusion that disagrees with your personal agenda. You will need a much better rationale for claiming "bias" than that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 June 23, 2010 QuoteThe United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, the Commonwealth Fund report found. I'd expect the findings on cost to hold up regardless, but this is a pretty small selection set. Though it's significant that AUS and UK were among the other 6; those two are the nations that are closest to America on obesity rates. But beyond that, this article is scant on detail, and no reference provided to more. There's very little to discuss here. How is standard of care measured? No doubt the US was dinged for the number of uninsured, and despite their deflections on smoking, by the lifestyle many of our people choose to live. I have little doubt that I fared better here with my motorcycle accident in 2006 than I would have anywhere else, but I also know that having a PPO plan rather than an HMO was a significant factor as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #8 June 23, 2010 Yep. In all sorts of qualitative analyses the US ranks last. Ironically, considering that government spending constitutes in excess of 50% of the spending on healthcare, one can look at some blame lying with the big dog, correct? John: Read the "China Study" for a fine example of how lifestyle contributes to so much of this. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #9 June 23, 2010 Yep. ANd the changes we just made are going to make it soooo much better Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #10 June 23, 2010 Sure. They've already made the move to make it cheaper by cutting the amount of money that Medicare pays to doctors. Money saved! YAY! This is how the government deccides to save lives and improve healthcare. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #11 June 23, 2010 Quote The Challenger report wasn't "biased" against O-rings. The Thalidomide report wasn't "biased" against drugs that cause deformities. Bias is not indicated by a conclusion that disagrees with your personal agenda. You will need a much better rationale for claiming "bias" than that. No I don't you are skewing the facts. This is a slanted opinion pole nothing more. You can think all of those countries are better but I bet my bank account that if you needed heart surgery you would be working with a US doctor and not only bc you live here bc a hell of a lot of people from those countries that are so "great" come here for treatment.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #12 June 24, 2010 QuoteQuote The Challenger report wasn't "biased" against O-rings. The Thalidomide report wasn't "biased" against drugs that cause deformities. Bias is not indicated by a conclusion that disagrees with your personal agenda. You will need a much better rationale for claiming "bias" than that. No I don't you are skewing the facts. This is a slanted opinion pole nothing more. You can think all of those countries are better but I bet my bank account that if you needed heart surgery you would be working with a US doctor and not only bc you live here bc a hell of a lot of people from those countries that are so "great" come here for treatment. As is usual among those of your ilk, you try hard to confuse medical treatment available to rich Americans with the overall quality of healthcare available to Americans in general.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #13 June 24, 2010 Quote Yep. ANd the changes we just made are going to make it soooo much better I agree; HC is not for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #14 June 24, 2010 QuoteQuote The Challenger report wasn't "biased" against O-rings. The Thalidomide report wasn't "biased" against drugs that cause deformities. Bias is not indicated by a conclusion that disagrees with your personal agenda. You will need a much better rationale for claiming "bias" than that. No I don't you are skewing the facts. This is a slanted opinion pole nothing more. You can think all of those countries are better but I bet my bank account that if you needed heart surgery you would be working with a US doctor and not only bc you live here bc a hell of a lot of people from those countries that are so "great" come here for treatment. Overall medical procedure immigration vs emigration renders the US at a 10:1 deficit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism Although much attention has been given to the growing trend of uninsured Americans traveling to foreign countries, a McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care;[61] the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006). India looks as the #1 spot for heart surgery: Most estimates claim treatment costs in India start at around a tenth of the price of comparable treatment in America or Britain.[7][75] The most popular treatments sought in India by medical tourists are alternative medicine, bone-marrow transplant, cardiac bypass surgery, eye surgery and orthopedic surgery. India is known in particular for heart surgery, hip resurfacing and other areas of advanced medicine. Any more guesses to garner? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #15 June 24, 2010 Quote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. OK, you asked for it...... Illegal Imagination: The average citizen is covering half of Mexico's use of the emergency room. Do you think this is a problem in the Netherlands? Malpractice insurance: I've seen some reports that up to $100,000 a year may go to Malpractice Insurance per doctor. A cost that gets sent to the patient. Unneeded procedures: I've already stated in previous threads that doctors treat lawyers first with a battery of mostly unneeded tests. Yet more time wasted, resources used and more costs sent to the patient. Life style: If I lived in Europe and only had a 30 work week to deal with, I would be a lot more healthy too. Despite all of this, Canadian officials still make there way to the US for health care, why is that? Lucky for us though, the new health care bill that was passed covers none of these issues. Medicare will now pay doctors less, yea!!!! Now they will really be able to for the malpractice insurance."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #16 June 24, 2010 >The average citizen is covering half of Mexico's use of the emergency room. Last year hospitals across the country spent $200 million on uncompensated care for illegal aliens. In 2008. Americans spent 2.3 trillion on healthcare. (That's 2,300,000 million.) 200 is not 50% of 2,300,000. Or put another way we have 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. That means we spend about $16 per illegal alien in terms of hospital and ER costs. Mexico spends about $675 per person in social service health care. >Despite all of this, Canadian officials still make there way to the US >for health care, why is that? And Sarah Palin's family would "scamper across the border" to get free Canadian health care when she was growing up; why do you think that was? Some very experienced skydivers have gone to Sweden to get shoulder surgery; why do you think that is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #17 June 24, 2010 Quote Or put another way we have 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. That means we spend about $16 per illegal alien in terms of hospital and ER costs. Mexico spends about $675 per person in social service health care. Spoken like a true Dem... 'but it's only $200 million...' -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 June 24, 2010 Quote>The average citizen is covering half of Mexico's use of the emergency room. Last year hospitals across the country spent $200 million on uncompensated care for illegal aliens. In 2008. Americans spent 2.3 trillion on healthcare. (That's 2,300,000 million.) 200 is not 50% of 2,300,000. Or put another way we have 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. That means we spend about $16 per illegal alien in terms of hospital and ER costs. Mexico spends about $675 per person in social service health care. Which begs the response, cite the $200M. Given your BP gaffe earlier in the week and the unlikelihood that the average really is $16, let's see some evidence. Also, what the hell is going on with the first paragraph? The statement was 50% of illegal alien (Mexico) use of the ER was covered by the public, not half of all health care costs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #19 June 24, 2010 Lawrocket, lets go back to this equation you like to throw around: Cost - Quality - Quantity I believe your statement was that one has to suffer to get the other two. Turns out you have bad quality and high costs, but you have a fair amount of it. Are you now advocating to close hospitals to get cost and quality in order? How do you propose to improve this, keeping your equation in mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #20 June 24, 2010 QuoteLawrocket, lets go back to this equation you like to throw around: Cost - Quality - Quantity Plus overhead of all sorts (administrative and excessive tests to defend against malpractice) and profit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 560 #21 June 24, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe United States ranked last when compared to six other countries -- Britain, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand, the Commonwealth Fund report found. I'd expect the findings on cost to hold up regardless, but this is a pretty small selection set. Though it's significant that AUS and UK were among the other 6; those two are the nations that are closest to America on obesity rates. But beyond that, this article is scant on detail, and no reference provided to more. There's very little to discuss here. How is standard of care measured? No doubt the US was dinged for the number of uninsured, and despite their deflections on smoking, by the lifestyle many of our people choose to live. I have little doubt that I fared better here with my motorcycle accident in 2006 than I would have anywhere else, but I also know that having a PPO plan rather than an HMO was a significant factor as well. Fact in the US some of your legislation is based on you being 33cm "wider" than Europeans! I found that obscure detail out recently while putting medical products through approvals both in the US and EU.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #22 June 24, 2010 >Spoken like a true Dem... 'but it's only $200 million...' Spoken like a true republican (i.e. make shit up and hope no one notices.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 560 #23 June 24, 2010 Quote Quote In cost per citizen. Comes last in most other categories www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Now we'll hear from the righties on (a) how flawed the study is, and (b) how social factors are to blame. OK, you asked for it...... Illegal Imagination: The average citizen is covering half of Mexico's use of the emergency room. Do you think this is a problem in the Netherlands? Malpractice insurance: I've seen some reports that up to $100,000 a year may go to Malpractice Insurance per doctor. A cost that gets sent to the patient. Unneeded procedures: I've already stated in previous threads that doctors treat lawyers first with a battery of mostly unneeded tests. Yet more time wasted, resources used and more costs sent to the patient. Life style: If I lived in Europe and only had a 30 work week to deal with, I would be a lot more healthy too. Despite all of this, Canadian officials still make there way to the US for health care, why is that? Lucky for us though, the new health care bill that was passed covers none of these issues. Medicare will now pay doctors less, yea!!!! Now they will really be able to for the malpractice insurance. not sure where in Europe they work 30 hour weeks but not here in the UK (unless you average the people on the dole with the rest of us)Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #24 June 24, 2010 >Which begs the response, cite the $200M http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html ======== "Mexican ambulance drivers are driving their hospital patients who can't pay for medical care in Mexico, to facilities in the United States. They know that the federal Emergency Medical Act mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens. Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico." ======== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #25 June 24, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote The Challenger report wasn't "biased" against O-rings. The Thalidomide report wasn't "biased" against drugs that cause deformities. Bias is not indicated by a conclusion that disagrees with your personal agenda. You will need a much better rationale for claiming "bias" than that. No I don't you are skewing the facts. This is a slanted opinion pole nothing more. You can think all of those countries are better but I bet my bank account that if you needed heart surgery you would be working with a US doctor and not only bc you live here bc a hell of a lot of people from those countries that are so "great" come here for treatment. As is usual among those of your ilk, you try hard to confuse medical treatment available to rich Americans with the overall quality of healthcare available to Americans in general. Kall it is just a fundamental difference in how we think. I do not think healthcare is a right I think it is a privledge. I am not trying to confuse the two. You like to throw the word "rich" out and I say that it is not something that is only privy to the rich..... bc its not! I think some changes should be made but NOT in the direction that it has gone.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
