Lots of immigration talk. Here is a question

[billvon 3,009]

> I know that in Texas, I had to show proof when I opened an account.

Perhaps. But you can open an online Bank of America account without ID and have the statements sent to an address in Texas. How would a polling place worker detect that?

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Doubtful - people move within a city/precinct and forget to change their address with the voting commission. I've received registration cards for previous tenants at a couple places that I've lived. I sent them back with a note stating that the person no longer lived at the address.

If the only place where John Doe of 123 Main Street exists is in the state's voter database, and John Doe doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the online or physical world--then there is a pretty good chance that John Doe of 123 Main Street is someone who shouldn't be voting.

Now, if a lot of different people have come and gone from 123 Main Street then, yes, it may be difficult to smoke out John Doe's real identity, even with good software, and John Doe may successfully fly under the radar.

Most newly legalized aliens, though, are going to want to be putting the flophouse lifestyle behind them. They're going to be doing things like getting good (or better) jobs and buying houses, and they are going to be establishing a stable lifestyle. Let's say Jose and Maria Perez, former illegal aliens who slept on the floor at 123 Main for three months, buy an upscale home at 456 Mercedes Way and live there for 10 years. If John Doe suddenly resurfaces at 456 Mercedes and starts voting again, he's going to stick out like a sore thumb, and may bring down everything that Jose and Maria have worked really hard for.

That's why I don't think you'll see many former illegal aliens voting until they become citizens.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[mnealtx 0]

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Doubtful - people move within a city/precinct and forget to change their address with the voting commission. I've received registration cards for previous tenants at a couple places that I've lived. I sent them back with a note stating that the person no longer lived at the address.

If the only place where John Doe of 123 Main Street exists is in the state's voter database, and John Doe doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the online or physical world--then there is a pretty good chance that John Doe of 123 Main Street is someone who shouldn't be voting.

Now, if a lot of different people have come and gone from 123 Main Street then, yes, it may be difficult to smoke out John Doe's real identity, even with good software, and John Doe may successfully fly under the radar.

Most newly legalized aliens, though, are going to want to be putting the flophouse lifestyle behind them. They're going to be doing things like getting good (or better) jobs and buying houses, and they are going to be establishing a stable lifestyle. Let's say Jose and Maria Perez, former illegal aliens who slept on the floor at 123 Main for three months, buy an upscale home at 456 Mercedes Way and live there for 10 years. If John Doe suddenly resurfaces at 456 Mercedes and starts voting again, he's going to stick out like a sore thumb, and may bring down everything that Jose and Maria have worked really hard for.

That's why I don't think you'll see many former illegal aliens voting until they become citizens.

Resurfaces at 456 Mercedes? Why would he 'resurface' there?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Resurfaces at 456 Mercedes? Why would he 'resurface' there?

Maybe because you now live at 123 Main and sent the state a letter saying he no longer lives there?

Even if he resurfaces under a new name--say Richard Roe of 456 Mercedes--it's going to look pretty strange if Jose and Maria own their home, no one else has lived there for 10 years, and there's no sign of them selling.

Jose can't vote under his old identity of 'John Doe of 123 Main' because you've told the state he longer lives at that address. And if he creates a new fictitious identity at his new address, it will be easily detected because the turnover of residents is far lower at his new, upscale, address.

As a result Jose and Maria won't be voting until they become citizens.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[mnealtx 0]

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Resurfaces at 456 Mercedes? Why would he 'resurface' there?

Maybe because you now live at 123 Main and sent the state a letter saying he no longer lives there?

Even if he resurfaces under a new name--say Richard Roe of 456 Mercedes--it's going to look pretty strange if Jose and Maria own their home, no one else has lived there for 10 years, and there's no sign of them selling.

Jose can't vote under his old identity of 'John Doe of 123 Main' because you've told the state he longer lives at that address. And if he creates a new fictitious identity at his new address, it will be easily detected because the turnover of residents is far lower at his new, upscale, address.

As a result Jose and Maria won't be voting until they become citizens.

I think you're reaching pretty hard. I'm sure that some take the route you describe, just as I'm sure that some vote illegaly.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tkhayes 348]

define "are not letting them"....

I tried but could not find much in the way of federal law enforcement numbers, local law enforcement numbers and what the history is over the years. I know that at a local level here in Florida, everything is being cut to the bone because of budget restraints. I expect the same is happening at a federal level.

I do not doubt that law enforcement 'wants' to take care of the problems, but I expect (as I said) that their budgets are such that they do not have the resources to do it.

Again, do you want to pay taxes for more cops, federal or local to do the job? As I said earlier - everyone wants it, no one wants to pay for it.

We have 100,000+ soldiers overseas that we are already paying to protect the country who could be on the border, protecting the country.

what a novel idea....! federal programs, funded by taxes, to serve the greater good of the people - WOW!

We could even extend that to education, health care - oops there I go again - being a Communist!

[mnealtx 0]

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We have 100,000+ soldiers overseas that we are already paying to protect the country who could be on the border, protecting the country.

Sure - just get Congress to waive posse comitatus and you're all set.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SivaGanesha 2]

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I think you're reaching pretty hard. I'm sure that some take the route you describe, just as I'm sure that some vote illegally.

Well you haven't presented a plausible scenario under which they'd vote illegally. The legal immigration process requires a significant investment of time and money. While a tiny few might be foolish enough to risk that investment for the dubious benefit of voting illegally, most people will be prudent enough to act to protect their investment.

Remember that legalization--if it happens at all--is only going to be available to those who mostly have obeyed the law except for their immigration violation. Those who are coming here to commit crimes probably aren't going to be interested in legalization nor is legalization going to be interested in them.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[quade 4]

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Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Because I believe in the spirit of the poetry inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

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Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Dom . . . you got Netflix?

Check out Season 5, Episode 6 of Penn and Teller's Bullshit!
http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Penn_Teller_Bullsh_t_Season_5_Immigration/70085755?trkid=921403

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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I think you're reaching pretty hard. I'm sure that some take the route you describe, just as I'm sure that some vote illegally.

Well you haven't presented a plausible scenario under which they'd vote illegally.

You make the assumption that the only ones who might vote (or attempt to vote) are those seeking nationalization.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Because I believe in the spirit of the poetry inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Unfortunately, those 'huddled masses' don't.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Because I believe in the spirit of the poetry inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Unfortunately, those 'huddled masses' don't.

It's THE reason the vast majority of them come here.

If we made it more economically viable to stay in their own countries, then they would.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Because I believe in the spirit of the poetry inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Unfortunately, those 'huddled masses' don't.

It's THE reason the vast majority of them come here.

The majority? Maybe. Seems like a number of them come and try to recreate what they just left.

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If we made it more economically viable to stay in their own countries, then they would.

Sure - and if we made it more economically viable for businesses to stay here, they would.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SivaGanesha 2]

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You make the assumption that the only ones who might vote (or attempt to vote) are those seeking nationalization.

No...I'm saying that legalization won't increase the Democratic base of voters for a long time. Those who aren't seeking legalization might be (illegal) voters but legalization won't have any effect on them at all.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[hwt 0]

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Uh huh - so, how are these people functioning in the REST of their daily lives without ID, then?

I think you are missing the point.... I would seek to be inclusive of ALL voters and potential voters to join the process. As the article pointed out by making the poor pay high fees for the priveledge of getting ID they are being exclusive, which is the intent of those laws.

Many people do indeed manage to live their daily lives without having to "you vill show me your papers"

____________________________________________
How do they cash their payroll checks?... opps silly me never mind..

[mnealtx 0]

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You make the assumption that the only ones who might vote (or attempt to vote) are those seeking nationalization.

No...I'm saying that legalization won't increase the Democratic base of voters for a long time. Those who aren't seeking legalization might be (illegal) voters but legalization won't have any effect on them at all.

Agree to disagree, then - there is no evidence that a current amnesty bill would follow the same timeline as the Reagan amnesty bill.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Because I believe in the spirit of the poetry inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Amnesty might work a lot better if there were a way to somehow restrict it to only those illegal aliens who themselves believe in that poem. Somehow I don't think Emma Lazarus would mind if the ancient lands kept their drug dealers along with their storied pomp.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[billvon 3,009]

>Amnesty might work a lot better if there were a way to somehow restrict it
>to only those illegal aliens who themselves believe in that poem.

That's pretty easy. Restrict it to those without a criminal record; that will capture most of the people who don't believe in working within society to get what they want.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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That's pretty easy. Restrict it to those without a criminal record; that will capture most of the people who don't believe in working within society to get what they want.

They didn't work within the existing society of the time on July 4, 1776.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[mnealtx 0]

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>Amnesty might work a lot better if there were a way to somehow restrict it
>to only those illegal aliens who themselves believe in that poem.

That's pretty easy. Restrict it to those without a criminal record; that will capture most of the people who don't believe in working within society to get what they want.

So, since those seeking amnesty are criminals by crossing the border in the first place, the amnesty isn't needed after all.

Sounds like a plan.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dgskydive 0]

Google the 2000 (i think) California elections.

It is (maybe it changed) illegal to ask for identification at the polls. Guess what, they vote all the time.

Dom

[maxmadmax 8]

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This will drift way off topic I am sure, but a simple question. Why do people try to ignore the fact that sneaking in the country is illegal? Why is it not an issue for some of you?

Greetings,

I concur with your statement 110%.

There is a huge underground cash economy in the greatest country on the face of the earth, USA.

Can you quantify it?
Probably not.

Have you seen houses framed?
Have you seen foundations being poured?
Have you seen roads being laid?
Have you seen yards being cut?
Have you seen houses being cleaned?
and so on.

The contracts are let, the employees are paid.
Legal or not.

Give them a check and the armored van pulls up to cash the check for a fee (without ID, of course)

You can fine the shit out of employers but unless you've ever tried to verify the credentials....shut up.

Ever see a SS card with the United States of Los Angelos on it?

Every town has a place or places where the illegals gather hoping to snag a job for the day.

Try looking at an inner city Home Depot.
Lots of help hanging around outside.
I bet most ain't got papers.

blah, blah,blah.

The solution is easy.
Charge them $500/year.
1. Photograph them.
2. Take a DNA sample.
3. Health check to keep out shitty germs, etc.
4. Try a criminal background check...good luck.

Ciao Mofos.
Mad Max

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[billvon 3,009]

>The solution is easy.
>Charge them $500/year.
>1. Photograph them.
>2. Take a DNA sample.
>3. Health check to keep out shitty germs, etc.
>4. Try a criminal background check..

That could work - as long as you are willing to submit to the same regimen. That way you'd have a 100% positive ID on EVERYONE. If not, then they'll just claim they are US citizens and/or use the same tricks they are using now.

Almost every immigration argument devolves to "go after the swarthy people, not me." Until that changes, the problem will remain.