Truth for Today 7/10/10

[pirana 0]

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Yes you did ( I am agreeing wity your responce to me just to be clear)
You responded to my comment to jclalor. That is where I got crossed up.

His comment "Or you could go with a reality based life" was the snide remark I posted to. (I have to wonder is his reality the only one worth living?)

Sorry for my confusion.

There is one reality. People may have different perceptions of it - those are called beliefs. Beliefs have very little bearing on reality - other than they really are each person's beliefs.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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To those in need, take heart and be an be encouraged. The creator of the universe also created you. He knows you totally and He loves you.

It occurs to me that if someone has a need it would be best to assist them in identifying the need and the practical steps to address it. Relying on gushy pablum about an imaginary friend who is all-powerful, all-knowing, kind and benevolent is moving towards an unhealthy fantasy-in-your-head cure that justs masks over the unmet fundamental need.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I used to feel the same way, and though I normally would say you remind me of myself, you do seem to have a tight grip on worldly logic that, I have to admit, supasses most....that may be your downfall.

Exactly how could good logic ever be a downfall for anybody?

Your statement is one of those Cumbaya type things that sounds warm and fuzzy on first look, but really makes no sense once it is given some thought.

So how could logic be harmful, or someone's downfall.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 62]

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To those in need, take heart and be an be encouraged. The creator of the universe also created you. He knows you totally and He loves you.

It occurs to me that if someone has a need it would be best to assist them in identifying the need and the practical steps to address it. Relying on gushy pablum about an imaginary friend who is all-powerful, all-knowing, kind and benevolent is moving towards an unhealthy fantasy-in-your-head cure that justs masks over the unmet fundamental need.

You do not understand the nature of spiritual/mental illness. No reason why you should. Folks with these issues tend to keep them very private until forced to expose their vulnerability. How do you reach out to these folks? How willing are you to share your deep unsolved secret issues?

The only thing anyone can do here is offer encouragement. One poster believed he could help others by offering virtual milk and cookies. No comment is sufficient to rebut that belief.

It is widely known and accepted that some desperate people have been saved from untimely death by an uplifting word from the Holy Bible.

When posters such as you take exception to this, your message to those unfortunates is, I don't give a flip about you condition, just deal with it.

That is called hard-heartedness and the world is full of such intellects, especially in the community of skydivers.

That is OK but, I and others have compassionate understanding and a desire to assist them in finding peace of mind.

Some people become skydivers to overcome personal inadequacies. It does not always work and some of those people become death statistics.

I was one of those people and I want to share what worked for me.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,535]

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I used to feel the same way, and though I normally would say you remind me of myself, you do seem to have a tight grip on worldly logic that, I have to admit, supasses most....that may be your downfall.

Exactly how could good logic ever be a downfall for anybody?

If you figure it out, let me know. I'd hate to think my own brain is plotting against me

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Flyerer 0]

I think Jimmy Buffet summed it up best in two lines in a cut off his "Fruit Cakes" albumn.

"Religion's in the hands of some crazy ass people," and the "God's honest truth is, it's not that simple."

[Coreece 190]

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We all have our list of bad things that we have to endure in this world

Yes, that was sort of my point to Shrop...that there are frustrations on both sides, but I'm sure he understands that too...

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In the U.S. at least, I'm fairly certain that Christians are not being persecuted (as a group) in any way.

I would obviously have to agree for the most part, especially when considering the rather sanguinary persecution of the early Church and that of Christians in other countries.

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I don't open the door for the church folks who come knocking

I haven't really adopted the old door to door approach to evangelism, but if you don't wanna talk, that of course is your choice. To be perfectly honest with you, from my experience it is probably best that you don't speak to them...you don't know who they are or what they're peddling. But if you do open the door, it's not like you're gonna find a big fat hairy moon in your face...and if you do happen to listen to what they have to say, I think discernment is very important.

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Yes, there are people who won't understand you and who will mock you

Yes, that is expected and doesn't necessarrily bother me too much. For the most part my list wasn't referring to being mocked, but rather, in general, negative influences that sometimes are just spewed in your face unexpectedly and from which I feel the need to distance myself, hence the OP.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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There is a whole mess of ungodly atrocsities that some Christians have to endure been responsible for in this world, wether it's imprisonment or death by religious bigots and ignoramuses, from friends or loved ones, from the city streets, from MTV or Comedy Central, the History Channel, Long Beach California, TV commercials, War, Sports, Internet forums, FOX, MSNBC, The American Taliban....watever.
..

That's why I think it's important to deny yourself, pick up your cross and get it right. There have been many atrocites committed by the religious, and the most troubling to me are/were those committed by so called evangelicals/reformers. What can I say...How terrible...How Sorry. I guess some people just can't handle the truth, eh? It reminds me of the title of my next short film, "The point that flew over the cookoo's nest"

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Gods don't make us good ... WE do.

Many world religions would probably agree with you to a certain extent, and I can say that we can do some superficial good....
Philippians 3:7-9
...But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.

More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith...

Now if that doesn't make sense to you, I can preach on that for at least on hour. Is that what you want?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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I used to feel the same way, and though I normally would say you remind me of myself, you do seem to have a tight grip on worldly logic that, I have to admit, supasses most....that may be your downfall.

Exactly how could good logic ever be a downfall for anybody?

If you figure it out, let me know. I'd hate to think my own brain is plotting against me

I've posted on this before but here goes again:

1 Corinthians 1:21-31
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

You can't know God through worldly wisdom. This however is not to suggest that I actually think you're trying to seek God, or that you can't offer something special to this world....it's just not going to be the God that I've come to know.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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I think Jimmy Buffet summed it up best in two lines in a cut off his "Fruit Cakes" albumn.

"Religion's in the hands of some crazy ass people," and the "God's honest truth is, it's not that simple."

I'll go with Billy Currington:

"God is great, beer is good, people are crazy."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Shotgun 1]

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To be perfectly honest with you, from my experience it is probably best that you don't speak to them...you don't know who they are or what they're peddling. But if you do open the door, it's not like you're gonna find a big fat hairy moon in your face...

I think you just contradicted yourself. If I don't know who they are or what they're peddling, I might open the door to find that they're peddling a big fat hairy moon.

Actually, I don't usually even know that they're religious folks until they've gone and left a pamphlet on my door. I just tend to ignore the doorbell unless I'm expecting someone; otherwise, it's almost always someone trying to sell me something.

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For the most part my list wasn't referring to being mocked, but rather, in general, negative influences that sometimes are just spewed in your face unexpectedly and from which I feel the need to distance myself, hence the OP.

Oh, OK. I can definitely relate to that.

[pirana 0]

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You do not understand the nature of spiritual/mental illness. No reason why you should. Folks with these issues tend to keep them very private until forced to expose their vulnerability.

The only thing anyone can do here is offer encouragement.

When posters such as you take exception to this, your message to those unfortunates is, I don't give a flip about you condition, just deal with it.

That is called hard-heartedness and the world is full of such intellects, especially in the community of skydivers.

That is OK but, I and others have compassionate understanding and a desire to assist them in finding peace of mind.

I was one of those people and I want to share what worked for me.

I am at a loss for what constitutes spiritual illness, but stick to my approach to mental illness; which I understand quite well - no reason why I shouldn't.

Encouragement is good to offer. Encouragement to seek modern treatment would be the best encouragement; which by the way you came close to hitting on the head with the statement about exposing things.

But I suppose if imaginary friends and the like were the only treatments (as they once were), that would be acceptable; but modern practical application of therapy & medicine seems the more likely path to good mental health. Why bury delusions with more delusions?

So because I think your version of help (find God) is a bunch of bunk, you label me as cold-hearted, not giving a flip, and insinuate lack of compassion?

You got one thing right, I insist they deal with it; because masking it over with BS is as likely to create a ticking bomb as a cured illness. But apparently, insisting they deal with it and encouraging them to seek real cures makes me a cold-hearted discompassionate person.

What a dilemma.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Shotgun 1]

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Encouragement to seek modern treatment would be the best encouragement;

To my knowledge, modern treatment for certain mental illnesses (addiction) still largely uses 12-step programs as part of the treatment. Which is basically saying, "We can't help you with science/medicine alone, so you need to look to a "higher power." And this works for a lot of people, but not for others. Some do find help through science/medicine alone, buy many do not.

I think we're still very much in the infancy of being able to treat any type of mental illness. And while we've come a long way, it still seems highly experimental to me. It's not like going to the doctor 'cause you broke your leg.

So if Ron wants to offer his version of help, he may very well find people he can help (and it sounds like he has) who otherwise would find no solution. And if it works for them, hey I'm not going to tell them that it can't work because I don't believe in their "imaginary friend" (as you put it).

[pirana 0]

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1 Corinthians 1:21-31
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

You can't know God through worldly wisdom. This however is not to suggest that I actually think you're trying to seek God, or that you can't offer something special to this world....it's just not going to be the God that I've come to know.

Good Gravy! Can you answer the question straight up - without preaching or quotes from millenia ago?

How does good logic equal or contribute to a person's downfall?

If that really is your answer; you do realize you've basically woven a watertight tautology. (Something akin to a kid who answers "Cuz" to every question).

I seek knowledge. I seek happiness. Religion (at least all of the organized and politicized ones), provide neither for me; and have at their best been an impediment to aquiring knowledge for anybody for at least the last 500 years. (Ever since their belief systems were called into question by that pesky system of thinking based on logic and reason - which I understand you feel will be my downfall).

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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To my knowledge, modern treatment for certain mental illnesses (addiction) still largely uses 12-step programs as part of the treatment. Which is basically saying, "We can't help you with science/medicine alone, so you need to look to a "higher power." And this works for a lot of people, but not for others. Some do find help through science/medicine alone, buy many do not.

I think we're still very much in the infancy of being able to treat any type of mental illness. And while we've come a long way, it still seems highly experimental to me. It's not like going to the doctor 'cause you broke your leg.

So if Ron wants to offer his version of help, he may very well find people he can help (and it sounds like he has) who otherwise would find no solution. And if it works for them, hey I'm not going to tell them that it can't work because I don't believe in their "imaginary friend" (as you put it).

I suppose you are right, that if it works, it's better than nothing - but 12-step programs are just covering one delusion with another. And a world view that all on Earth is actually controlled by some higher power holding everybody's strings is a very serious delusion.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[happythoughts 0]

A farmer hears some noise and walks out. He sees a man
in the pig sty wrestling with the pig.
The man said that the pig kept running up and bumping
into him. He decided to take the pig down.

The farmer said, "Well, you can wrestle with the pig,
but eventually you realize three things.
You can't win, you're getting covered in crap, and the pig likes it."

...jus' sayin'

[Shotgun 1]

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The farmer said, "Well, you can wrestle with the pig,
but eventually you realize three things.
You can't win, you're getting covered in crap, and the pig likes it."

Did this pig happen to be wearing lipstick?

[billvon 3,031]

> but 12-step programs are just covering one delusion with another.

I don't think addiction is a "delusion" any more than depression is - nor is a belief in a higher power (whether that's a god, or a parent, or a sponsor, or a program, or a country) necessarily a delusion. While some people do indeed believe that God is a "higher power holding everyone's strings" the great majority do not.

[Coreece 190]

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Good Gravy! Can you answer the question straight up - without preaching or quotes from millenia ago?

relax dude.

I gave you a str8 up answer, but didn't want you to just take my word for it...sorry you didn't like it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[ianmdrennan 2]

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While some people do indeed believe that God is a "higher power holding everyone's strings" the great majority do not.

Are you sure about that? While I'd like to believe it's true, it's my experience that most people DO believe in a God holding the strings....Christian or otherwise.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[maadmax 0]

Exactly how could good logic ever be a downfall for anybody?

If you figure it out, let me know. I'd hate to think my own brain is plotting against me

Logic is an exercise in reasoning. It can take many paths that don't necessarily lead to the Truth. If one puts their faith solely in logic they may delude themselves and miss out on what they seek.



...

[RonD1120 62]

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What a dilemma.

Where will you turn to seek a solution?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

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What a dilemma.

Where will you turn to seek a solution?

To logic, science and reasoning, perhaps.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Niki1 1]

The only thing anyone can do here is offer encouragement.

It is widely known and accepted that some desperate people have been saved from untimely death by an uplifting word from the Holy Bible.

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But not just the Bible. Many people on the edge have been helped by any kind, compassionate, uplifting words from friends and strangers who did not have the Bible in mind.

***
That is OK but, I and others have compassionate understanding and a desire to assist them in finding peace of mind.

I was one of those people and I want to share what worked for me.

And that's a very good thing. Other people want to do the same thing but their way may not be the same as what worked for you. That doesn't mean that their way is wrong, just different.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[pirana 0]

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> but 12-step programs are just covering one delusion with another.

I don't think addiction is a "delusion" any more than depression is - nor is a belief in a higher power (whether that's a god, or a parent, or a sponsor, or a program, or a country) necessarily a delusion. While some people do indeed believe that God is a "higher power holding everyone's strings" the great majority do not.

Addiction is the delusion that some short term pleasure or reward or desire is worth the long term effects. Thinking recovery is the result of some higher power when it is the addict that takes the action is a delusion. The addict makes the choice, not the higher power. They have no confidence in their own ability (often no confidence in themselves at all) but readily accept that someone or something else can make it better for them - despite the fact that they make the actual choice. Getting healthy as a result of a higher power is palatable to them; getting healthy on their own goes against their mindset.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley