beowulf 1 #26 July 27, 2010 In order to obey one must first believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 July 27, 2010 It sounds like you still have faith, but struggle with the bullshit man made alterations to the religion, the ones that are more self serving (obey me and pay the church or you'll burn in hell). These are the natural failings of man. These sort of struggles of course lead to the various Protestant sects. That doesn't really equate to atheism. Nor should it have to. Every person should determine for himself how he wants to live his life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #28 July 27, 2010 Quote If there is a God, and he would punish and deny me entry into heaven or whatever is the afterlife, because I did not put faith in an entity that did not show himself or make himself known, or prove in any indisputable way to me that he exists, What makes you think He didn't?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #29 July 27, 2010 QuoteIn order to obey one must first believe. I guess you were never in the military. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good;How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #30 July 27, 2010 Your scripture doesn't mean much. My life isn't any better or worse for not believing in god. There is no evidence to support the existence of any deity. There is no refuge in an imaginary being. If I were in the military I would believe that disobeying would have swift consequences. Not difficult to believe, unlike belief in an imaginary being. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #31 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteI have been in your shoes. I found that many religous people are very offended by the thought that anyone doesn't believe in god. The whole turning the other cheek or love thy neighbor quickly goes out the window. I think that 'love thy neighbor,' and 'turn the other cheek,' is a good way to live, whether you believe in God or not. +1 However, there are many self-professed Christians who will quote Saul/Paul to justify retribution and revenge. Some of them post here.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #32 July 27, 2010 We'll talk at OshYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #33 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo what you are saying is stop questioning and just believe. No, be obedient. Which is exactly what the Santa Claus indoctrination is all about; isn't it? Check the lyrics; Quote You better watch out You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town He's making a list And checking it twice; Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice Santa Claus is coming to town He sees you when you're sleeping He knows when you're awake He knows if you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! O! You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town Santa Claus is coming to town Obey or Santa won't give you any presents. I'll wager you are part of the intellectual elite at Perris Valley. Aren't you?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #34 July 27, 2010 Nice! Some more holy sarcasm from RonD1120! Apparently he must at a loss for an intelligent rebuttal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #35 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteIn order to obey one must first believe. I guess you were never in the military. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good;How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him! The bible also says: " Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart - Psalm 37-4 Well, I wholeheartedly believed for the last decade, up until now of course. Has God granted that promise? - no. Have I asked him for anything extravagant? - like winning the lottery? - no I always asked for things any sane man would want in his life - so a job to support myself, a wife, I mean lets face it, being single gets boring sooner than later, & laugh as you may - skydiving. Being that it would bring me so much happiness to be a part of the sport. Are any of those things true in my life? - nope. Life experience has shown me that god does not exist. And if I hear any one more religious person tell me "in God's timing you'll have those things" I'm going to puke 100 meters! I'm 3 days away from turning 29 - time is steadily stopping on being on my side for tthe various things I want to achieve in my life. Don't get me wrong, this is not a woe me post - all I'm saying is anything that you want out of life it's your responsibility to go out and get it. The hell with waiting on god - who clearly does not exist.Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #36 July 27, 2010 QuoteThere is no evidence to support the existence of any deity. I lean towards being agnostic, I don't deny the existence of a supreme being; I think that something, some supreme super natural being that falls outside of our laws of existence had to have created the physical world. I simply don't know. Physically, you cannot have something from nothing. So the only explanation is that something not "physical" created the physical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #37 July 27, 2010 QuotePhysically, you cannot have something from nothing. Except, it happens literally billions and billions of times every day. It just happens at a scale you can't see with your naked eyes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #38 July 27, 2010 QuoteI'll wager you are part of the intellectual elite at Perris Valley. Aren't you? I notice you're not denying the obvious parallels between a belief in Santa and belief in God.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #39 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo what you are saying is stop questioning and just believe. No, be obedient. Which is exactly what the Santa Claus indoctrination is all about; isn't it? Check the lyrics; Quote You better watch out You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town He's making a list And checking it twice; Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice Santa Claus is coming to town He sees you when you're sleeping He knows when you're awake He knows if you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! O! You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town Santa Claus is coming to town Obey or Santa won't give you any presents. I'll wager you are part of the intellectual elite at Perris Valley. Aren't you? Classic attacking the personality rather than the message, Ron. We've had that discussion before, haven't we? Are you beyond learning that that does not work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteIn order to obey one must first believe. I guess you were never in the military. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good;How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him! I was in the military...and from the first instant I BELIEVED...that if I did not OBEY... that great tribulation would be visited on me all out of proportion to the daily ration being distributed to all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #41 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuotePhysically, you cannot have something from nothing. Except, it happens literally billions and billions of times every day. It just happens at a scale you can't see with your naked eyes. I see where you're going with this. What happens billions and billions of times every day? All I'm saying is that there is nothing, that we know of, that is created from nothing. There is always a force involved. I believe that something super natural created the natural. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #42 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteI have been in your shoes. I found that many religous people are very offended by the thought that anyone doesn't believe in god. The whole turning the other cheek or love thy neighbor quickly goes out the window. I think that 'love thy neighbor,' and 'turn the other cheek,' is a good way to live, whether you believe in God or not. there was one south park episode where they discussed the bible and it's contents. the summary at the end was basically that the new testament is a set of stories that describe one way that people can act to have a good life and interact well with others. It's not a book filled with stories that should be taken literally an applied to everyday life. My take on the New Testament is that it is a collection of stories that were verbally passed through many generations of storytellers, all of which held Jesus in the highest esteem (which could have skewed the re-telling of the stories). And after all those re-tellings it was finally written down and is translated from a translation into many languages. It's easy to see how the original stories are long lost, and only the base ideas of them remain.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #43 July 27, 2010 Quote If you want something out of life, than it's your responsibility to go out & get it! After growing up Catholic, then doing my own thing, then doing the "fashionable" Buddhist thing, then even the Native American Earth Mother thing, I became an Athiest (briefly). It wasn't to long before I realized that I couldn't just not believe in God...It was too evident within me. As I was driving cross country alone (so alone) as a new athiest, I remember thinking to myself that "I'm alone...there is no God...damn man, I gotta stop fuckin' around..." and it occured to me at that moment that my concept of God was completely flawed and at best, utterly inaccurate. Why would I say that I gotta stop fuckin around now that I don't believe in God? I realized that throughout my life I felt I could just do whatever I wanted and God would just clean up the mess (if any) and I could just go on doing my own thing and it would just be alright. Anyways, it took awhile, but after being dragged kicking and screaming I sought to know God. I sought God through the only book that I truely knew to say anything relevant on the subject...I read scripture and when something ridiculous came about, I didn't just say (as always) "that's bullshit, I'm outta here man, screw this." Instead I sought to understand...I sought God with all my heart, and He found me...and I understood. Finally at 27 I began to apply these concepts and obeyed what I was reading, and then I clearly saw the grace of God and the great things that were being revealed in my life. And though that experience was absolutely amazing and exceedingly joyful (even through the trials), becomming a Christian tends to lead to a much more difficult life, contrary to many evangelical Churches that portray Jesus and some sort of utiltarian Jeanie...but even though life is tougher, you're able to deal with it in a joyful manner and with a positive prespective that is beyond ourselves. I believe God will bring you through this, and though your mother says he will punish you, I have faith that he will use this opportunity to display his grace in a way that will give you a new prespective on life and an appreciation of who he really is... ...and you're right, you have to go out and get it! Just remember who to thank.Peace, brother...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #44 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotePhysically, you cannot have something from nothing. Except, it happens literally billions and billions of times every day. It just happens at a scale you can't see with your naked eyes. I see where you're going with this. What happens billions and billions of times every day? All I'm saying is that there is nothing, that we know of, that is created from nothing. There is always a force involved. I believe that something super natural created the natural. What do you think created the supernatural?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #45 July 27, 2010 QuoteOnce you finally come to the conclusion there is no Santa Claus, then the "what if" question is moot. Well, actually there was a Santa Claus. It's just that overtime people began to make him what they wanted him to be and not who he actually was...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #46 July 27, 2010 QuoteQuoteOnce you finally come to the conclusion there is no Santa Claus, then the "what if" question is moot. Well, actually there was a Santa Claus. It's just that overtime people began to make him what they wanted him to be and not who he actually was... Consider that though stolen-I have use for itYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #47 July 27, 2010 QuoteConsider that though stolen what do you mean?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RALFFERS 0 #48 July 27, 2010 I'm becoming a big fan of this guy.Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself - "from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #49 July 27, 2010 QuoteI think that 'love thy neighbor,' and 'turn the other cheek,' is a good way to live, whether you believe in God or not. I think it's a terrible way to live. People who truly believe these platitudes just set themselves up to be walked all over by others. All religions teach some variant of the above platitudes because they are trying to set their followers up to be walked all over by the leaders. But that doesn't make it a good way to live. Don't get me wrong--I think there is a time and a place for helping others. But just blindly helping people we know nothing about ('love thy neighbor') or who have actively abused us ('turn the other cheek') reinforces dysfunctional behavior on the part of others and isn't a good way to live."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #50 July 27, 2010 QuoteI'm becoming a big fan of this guy. well if you're gonna go, just just do it! spit in my face, then spit in God's face! Why all this pretense? Good luck!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
