Jihadi Meetingplace shut Down in Germany; 9/11 Conspirators Gathered There

[Darius11 12]

Quote

I guess I do have an anti Muslim stance (I actually dont like to admit that).

I had respect for you because you served now i have more respect for you because you are honest with us and your self.

I understand the Anti Muslim stance that you have, however i think it has more to do with what you are exposed too.

I think when all you see is the negative and the people who are trying to kill you daily are muslim that will effect your viwe.

So I understand why or what makes you feel that way, but at the same time its like focusing on a huge picture with a microscope you only get to see one small section. You do not see the similarities that many humans regardless of religion or color share.

not all muslims belive in the same things or even belive in them in the same manner.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

On the other hand, I couldn't condem a complete group of people (very few of whom I've met or know personnaly) - for wanting us all to disappear - not even sure how anyone could ever come to that conclusion - did you do a poll of them all?

LOL. No I didnt poll all of them, but really? Is it not obvious that the Muslim World considers the West the enemy? Is it not obvious that this religion really doesn't tolerate much at all (even if it is supposed to). If they had more money and a bigger Army, they would be bombing us right now.

Dom

[DanG 1]

Quote

Context, Dan. The entire story to which I responded was about mosques with ties to terrorism.

Sure, and when you said that they would soon have one in NYC, you meant that they would soon have a mosque tied to terrorism (even thought it isn't).

Everyone knows what you said and what you meant. There's no point in playing the Speaker's Corner Parse Game (TM).

- Dan G

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

I guess I do have an anti Muslim stance (I actually dont like to admit that).

I had respect for you because you served now i have more respect for you because you are honest with us and your self.

I understand the Anti Muslim stance that you have, however i think it has more to do with what you are exposed too.

I think when all you see is the negative and the people who are trying to kill you daily are muslim that will effect your viwe.

So I understand why or what makes you feel that way, but at the same time its like focusing on a huge picture with a microscope you only get to see one small section. You do not see the similarities that many humans regardless of religion or color share.

not all muslims belive in the same things or even belive in them in the same manner.

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

Like Turkey

[billvon 2,991]

>If I overheard a guy getting ready to kill or rape, I would do everything I
>could to stop that.

Knowing you I suspect you would indeed do that. And the Muslims I know would do the same. They're not so different.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

I understand the Anti Muslim stance that you have, however i think it has more to do with what you are exposed too.

This will sound even stranger to you. I have actually met very FEW Muslims that have left a negative impression on me. But I think that is because the ones that I have met on a personal level are here in the US and at least the ones that I have met are trying to fit into this country.

Quote

I think when all you see is the negative and the people who are trying to kill you daily are muslim that will effect your view.

The negative I see comes from the leaders of Muslim States. It comes from the likes of Bin Laden and the Taliban. It comes from the way that countries like Pakistan cant even be straight with us when they say they are our allies and allow murders to run free within their borders. It comes from when Muslim countries allow terrorist groups to train and plan attacks with no regard for the lives of my family and friends and my beliefs.

I believe that the vast majority of the Muslim world does see us as the enemy and will stop at nothing to see this country destroyed.

Quote

You do not see the similarities that many humans regardless of religion or color share.

That's not true. That's so not true it is laughable. If you want to know my family tree send me a PM. lol

Quote

not all muslims belive in the same things or even belive in them in the same manner

I agree with you on that. But the problem is, we dont know which ones are tolerant of others or not.

Lets see, the 9/11 hijackers came here, drank alcohol, dated western women, went to porn shops....acted just like the rest of us. Then they got on some planes and committed one of the most horrible acts of murder in the history of mankind.

The idiot that tried to blow up Times Square recently... he was living the western life. Never would have though that he was a terrorist.

They guys that plotted to blow up the 1/2/3 subway lines in NYC last year (which I take too and from work every morning getting off at Penn Station), lived worked and played here.

So how are we supposed to know who is who, and who believes what?

Then you have this Mosque by the WTC site. Why wont they open their books and show where the 100 million is coming from to build it?

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

Good point Jeannie. I can guarantee you that if we destroyed Mecca they woudnt let us build a Church a few blocks away.

Dom

[DanG 1]

Quote

I can guarantee you that if we destroyed Mecca they woudnt let us build a Church a few blocks away.

Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard, then.

- Dan G

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

Good point Jeannie. I can guarantee you that if we destroyed Mecca they woudnt let us build a Church a few blocks away.

Well, Saudi Arabia's laws are far different than ours and much less tolerant.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Sure, and when you said that they would soon have one in NYC, you meant that they would soon have a mosque tied to terrorism (even thought it isn't).

Where is your prof that it isnt tied to a terrorist organization? The Imams wife is through her father I believe it was. Why wont they open their books and show where the money is coming from to build the Mosque? From what I read the Cordoba whatever only has about $20,000 in assests. That is a long way off from being able to build a 100 million dollar facility.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Well, Saudi Arabia's laws are far different than ours and much less tolerant.

Tell that to the female soldiers and airmen that had their arms and faces spray painted black during the 1st Gulf War by the Saudi religious police. Pretty tolerant there.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard, then.

That is part of our weakness as a nation. They are not playing that game. They see this as a War and they want to win it. Higher standards are great, but they dont win wars.

Dom

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

Well, Saudi Arabia's laws are far different than ours and much less tolerant.

Tell that to the female soldiers and airmen that had their arms and faces spray painted black during the 1st Gulf War by the Saudi religious police. Pretty tolerant there.

I did say much less tolerant. Probably should have said they are fucking intolerant assholes.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[dgskydive 0]

lol. Sorry I misread your post. I thought you said they had BETTER laws. Which really confused me coming from you. lol

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

And the Muslims I know would do the same. They're not so different.

I bet you do know Muslims that would stop something like that.

But.... ask this girl that Muslims would do the same for her.

http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/18/shaming-her-in-laws-costs-19-year-old-her-nose-ears/

That is what I see the vast majority of Muslims to believe in.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

You guys can keep the debate going. I have to go see my back surgeon. Dr. Mobaser. Oh no, he is Muslim!!!!

Dom

[wmw999 2,447]

Quote

That is what I see the vast majority of Muslims to believe in.

Dom, that's like taking the Westboro Baptist Church folks as an example of all Christians.

Just as good news isn't all that interesting in the US, good news about normal people in other countries also doesn't sell. So we base our opinions on what we read and see. If we don't have any personal experience, it's going to be based on all that "newsworthy" crap. Which is why people from other countries think we're all like Lindsay Lohan, and why we think that all Muslims are like Osama Bin Laden.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,991]

>That is what I see the vast majority of Muslims to believe in.

That's as true as saying the vast majority of Christians believe in this:

=========
January 29, 2010
Born-again Christian says he killed abortion doctor to save lives

An interesting defence:

In an impassioned plea before a US court, a born-again Christian argued on Thursday that he had killed a prominent abortion doctor because he wanted to save the lives of unborn babies.

Scott Roeder, 51, has pleaded not guilty to a charge of first-degree murder in the May 2009 slaying of Dr George Tiller in the foyer of a Kansas church.

Instead in an unorthodox move he is seeking to convince jurors that he is guilty of the lesser offence of voluntary manslaughter, because he honestly believed he was saving people from greater harm.
=========

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

Good point Jeannie. I can guarantee you that if we destroyed Mecca they woudnt let us build a Church a few blocks away.

Well, Saudi Arabia's laws are far different than ours and much less tolerant.

I am a HUGE fan of live and let live.... trouble is.. there are WAY too many people not willing to let me live my life as I see fit... in the Kindom of SAUD... ( yeah been there ... it sucked donkey balls) and in this country we have a large segment of the population that only pays lip service to those catchie little buzzwords of religious tolerance... equality for all male and female... and on and on..

[DanG 1]

Quote

Where is your prof that it isnt tied to a terrorist organization? The Imams wife is through her father I believe it was. Why wont they open their books and show where the money is coming from to build the Mosque? From what I read the Cordoba whatever only has about $20,000 in assests. That is a long way off from being able to build a 100 million dollar facility.

That just gets a big, "Huh?" Where are you getting your information?

Here's some info from Wiki (yeah, I know Wikipedia sucks):

Quote

Abdul Rauf wrote three books on Islam and its place in contemporary Western society, including What's Right with Islam, which was later printed in paperback with the changed title What's Right with Islam is What's Right with America.[7]

Abdul Rauf worked to build bridges between American society, the American Muslim community and the wider Muslim World. In 1997, he founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement, a civil society organization aimed at promoting positive engagement between American society and American Muslims. The organization is now headed by his wife, Daisy Khan, an interior designer by profession.[1]

In 2003, Abdul Rauf founded the Cordoba Initiative, another registered nonprofit organization with offices in both New York and Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. As CEO of Cordoba Initiative, Abdul Rauf coordinates projects that emphasize the bonds that connect the Muslim World and the West.

Abdul Rauf has been Imam of Masjid al-Farah at at 245 West Broadway in New York City's Tribeca district since 1983.

The article does go on to list criticisms of Rauf, but they really don't have much substance. They center around the fact that he believes that US foreign policy contributed to 9/11, and that he wouldn't come out in a particular interview and say that Hamas is a terrorist organization. He's obviously a very intelligent man, and like most intelligent people, he understands that the world is rarely black and white. I guess you could fault him for emphasizing the grey too much, but otherwise he seems like the kind of Muslim that the US should be working with. I haven't seen anything that wasn't from Newsmax or a right wing blogger that ties him to terrorism. If you know of something, please enlighten us.

- Dan G

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Context, Dan. The entire story to which I responded was about mosques with ties to terrorism.

Sure, and when you said that they would soon have one in NYC, you meant that they would soon have a mosque tied to terrorism (even thought it isn't).

There you go, proving my own point. As soon as you say "...you meant...", then you're wrong. You don't know what I meant - only I do. And my comment was simply about another mosque, and did not imply that it already has ties to terrorism. That's all in your head, not mine. So please quit trying to stuff words in my mouth that I don't put there.

[champu 1]

Quote

If I belonged to a Religion that was responsible for terrorist attacks, I would either rethink my religion or Speak up loudly in defense of it and condemn those responsible for ruining my religion every chance I got. If I was a leader in that religion I would think I would do everything I could to set myself apart from the "fakers" so to speak.

I wrote a post last year that called attention to some Iraqi Imams who were consistently outspoken against violence, all the way up until they were killed by extremists themselves.

Unfortunately that thread got out of hand and the whole thing ended up in the recycle bin so I can't get to it.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

No. I want people in the USA to be treated the way the USA should treat people.
True ethics is more about leading, not following.

[D22369 0]

I wrote a post last year that called attention to some Iraqi Imams who were consistently outspoken against violence, all the way up until they were killed by extremists themselves. ***

this is why you dont see the muslim community policing themselves like some say they should, they have family that would pay the price - the whackjobs will kill muslims who they deem to not be muslim enough without a second thought.

I got curious and read some of the koran, I found it to be a book of intolerance, and it has a decidedly do not forgive message, I was told that since I read a translated book that I didnt get the whole message - but with what I did read I wonder how someone gets a religion of peace from it... the author had definate anger issues coupled with a huge ego.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Would you be good with muslims being treated the same here in the USA as christians or others are treated in Islamic countries?

My feelings of how people should be treated have nothing to do with there faith.

I think that's the point.

So unfair treatment of Christians, Jews, or none believers is unfair treatment to me no matter who is doing it.

By the way in Iran i have had good Christian friends and i have never heard them or seen them face discrimination. As a matter of fact most of the Islamic laws that prevent the use of alcohol specifically do not apply to them so they can worship as they wish. Same for Jews.

However i am not trying to say that the Iranian government is what we should look at for any standard of Justice. that's why i am here because i believe in the values presented by the Constitution. I belive religion should have no roll in goverment period.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain