Shinto Shrine near Pearl Harbor

[funjumper101 15]

From -

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1437

An American flag waves briskly in the breeze beside a Shinto shrine on the major freeway leading from Honolulu to Pearl Harbor. Just five miles away is the spot where Japanese planes dropped their bombs on the American fleet. Few tourists rushing between Pearl Harbor and Waikiki realize the deep irony that flag symbolizes. But for those who fought in World War II or know the history of that encounter, the sight of an American flag at a shrine so closely associated with the adversary calls forth a whole complex of reactions.

It was Shinto, the native religion of Japan, that had not only given its wholehearted support to the war machine but had provided its very rationale: the myths and legends that led directly to the kamakazi pilots. Shinto taught that the emperor was a descendant of the very gods who had created their islands and that Japan thus had a mandate to rule the “world under one roof” (Hakko Ichiu).

The idea that such a religion could ever find a home in America would have seemed preposterous in the 1940s. In fact, at the close of the war one of the arguments used against statehood for Hawaii was that the Japanese population in Hawaii was so great and their loyalties so questionable that it would be risky to include them in our commonwealth.

Suspicion about the Japanese was building up long before Pearl Harbor, of course. In the 1930s, when Japan was invading China, Japanese women solicited funds on the streets of Honolulu for good-luck headbands for the soldiers. Imported films glorified Japan’s conquests; when Hankow and Canton fell, victory services were held in Shinto shrines in Hawaii. The emperor’s birthday was celebrated each year, and it was rumored that the Shinto god of war, Hachiman, was worshiped in one of Honolulu’s shrines.

Once Hawaii was attacked, all of this changed. Japanese leaders, including Shinto priests, were rounded up and deported. It was impossible to resettle all of the Japanese, as California had done, for they constituted nearly one-third of the population. The people of Hawaii simply had to learn to live together despite their qualms. Suspicions continued for a while: Shinto shrines were considered a hotbed of subversive activities by some and were vandalized; Japanese maids were thought to be spies; Japanese fishermen were believed to have directed the pilots of the emperor to their targets.

Nisei (second-generation Japanese) were eager to allay such suspicions. The 100th Reserve Officers Training Corps unit at the University of Hawaii was eager to fight in the war and prove that Japanese were loyal citizens of the territory. They soon got their opportunity as part of the much-decorated 442nd Battalion (all Japanese) that fought in Italy and France and, on VE Day, led the parade of Allied Forces.

<<< End

So much for the right wing bigoted assholes that talk smack about the US Constitution.

Why are you right wing sheeple all whipped up into a froth over a local zoning issue?

Because you are REALLY FUCKING STUPID!!! Not to mention gullible and astonishingly ignorant.

There are far more important issues facing this country than a Moslem Community Center (the functional equivalent to a YMCA) being built in a depressed area of the most international city in the USA.

[funjumper101 15]

http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo_bush_goes_to_shinto_worship.html


American Christians were both grieved and shocked when President Bush, professing Christian, went to a Mosque and joined in prayer with the Muslims to the “Universal God.” President Bush evidently assumes that all religions worship the same “Universal God” under different names. Thus any name of any deity will do. This is, of course, not acceptable to Bible-believing Christians because Allah and all other pagan deities are demon-gods according to I Cor. 10.

President Bush and his wife have now managed to alienate the Japanese and Korean Christian communities by going to a Shinto shrine and worshipping the demon spirit in the shrine. They both bowed to the demon and clapped their hands to awaken him. Then they signed the book of those who have worshipped the demon spirit who inhabits the Shrine - you can see the article from the Japan Times right here.

Japanese Christian leaders (see email at bottom of the page) confirm that the Bushes engaged in pagan worship and not just a show of respect. The Japanese news services used the religious term sanpei to describe the worship performed by the Bushes at the temple.

During WW II, Japanese and Korean Christians who refused to worship the demon-spirit at Shinto shrines were put to death. Now, their descendents see the Bushes making a mockery of those who, like Daniel and his three friends, refused to bow before a heathen idol.

According to the Japan Times, the Prime minister of Japan remained in the car because he could not join the Bushes in worshipping at the shrine. This was due to a wall of separation between temple and state set forth in the Japanese Constitution. It forbids the heads of state from participating in Shinto worship because that was the religion that motivated the carnage of WW II and the attack on Pearl Harbor.

American WWII veterans are particularly outraged at the Bushes worshipping the spirit of past Japanese Emperors as this was the motivating force behind the Japanese attack on America.

<<< End

Go to hell, bigoted unamerican assholes that HATE the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution.

[rhaig 0]

I lit my aunt up when I pointed out to her that Islam is one of the 3 Abrahamic religions (with common roots and worship the same god).

--
Rob

[JohnRich 4]

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a Shinto shrine on the major freeway leading from Honolulu to Pearl Harbor. Just five miles away is the spot where Japanese planes dropped their bombs on the American fleet...

I have no problem with the New York mosque moving five miles away from ground zero.

Quote

So much for the right wing bigoted assholes that talk smack about the US Constitution.
Why are you right wing sheeple all whipped up into a froth over a local zoning issue?
Because you are REALLY FUCKING STUPID!!! Not to mention gullible and astonishingly ignorant.

Thank you for your love, understanding and tolerance.

[Andy9o8 2]

I'm still pissed that the British Embassy is about the finest embassy building in Washington, DC, given that those imperialist bastards torched the White House in the War of 1812. Fuckers; pretty soon we'll all be speaking their language.

[funjumper101 15]

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a Shinto shrine on the major freeway leading from Honolulu to Pearl Harbor. Just five miles away is the spot where Japanese planes dropped their bombs on the American fleet...

I have no problem with the New York mosque moving five miles away from ground zero.

Quote

So much for the right wing bigoted assholes that talk smack about the US Constitution.
Why are you right wing sheeple all whipped up into a froth over a local zoning issue?
Because you are REALLY FUCKING STUPID!!! Not to mention gullible and astonishingly ignorant.

Thank you for your love, understanding and tolerance.

Here is a fine example of emotion and ignorance overcoming rational thought.

The 5 miles in the story refers to the distance between the site of the Shinto shrine and the Pearl Harbor memorial. Anyone with basic knowlege of the Pearl Harbor attack knows that the site of the memorial is not the only place that bombs landed and people were killed. The entire area was bombed and shot up. Logically speaking, Pearl Harbor's "Ground Zero" is the entire area, not just the site of the memorial. That puts the Shinto shrine in the middle of ground zero for the attack.

The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that?

Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center?

Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics?

The ideals of this country are being seriously challenged by RWCs. They are trying to set aside parts of the US Constitution for short term political gain. They are finding a willing and easily led audience that has no historical knowlege or perspective. The lack of basic civics knowlege these days is incredible. It is a scary time for the USA.

[JohnRich 4]

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So much for the right wing bigoted assholes that talk smack about the US Constitution.
Why are you right wing sheeple all whipped up into a froth over a local zoning issue?
Because you are REALLY FUCKING STUPID!!! Not to mention gullible and astonishingly ignorant.
- funjumper101

Here is a fine example of emotion and ignorance overcoming rational thought.

Ah, I see. So when you made that first comment, quoted above, you considered that unemotional, educated and perfectly rational thinking?

[sundevil777 102]

There is no problem in the world with Shinto extremists wanting to bring about the fall of the western world, to impose their religion upon others.

The same cannot be said about Islam.

That is the distinction, the important difference here. The Japanese had a true change of heart away from their imperialist ways and realized that their future was much better served by living and prospering in peace. They were very fortunate that their conquerors wanted the same.

When Islamic leaders have a true change of heart, then there can be peace. Peace will not be had by apologies and concessions from the western world.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[funjumper101 15]

You failed to make a point, other than that I am extremely angry with the RWCs who are doing everything they can to divide this country and bring it to ruin, with the cheerful assistance of people like you.

Answer the questions -

Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center?

Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?


I'll bet you can't anwser the questions without being forced to question your position, so you won't.

[billvon 3,009]

>There is no problem in the world with Shinto extremists wanting to bring
>about the fall of the western world, to impose their religion upon others.

Perhaps you missed a somewhat noteworthy event that historians call "World War Two."

>The Japanese had a true change of heart away from their imperialist
>ways and realized that their future was much better served by living and
>prospering in peace.

?? Again, perhaps you missed the first (and only) use of nuclear weapons against civilians. If a man kills your friends, then points a gun at your head and says "give me your wallet" and you do - have you had a true change of heart, and decided that he really did deserve your money more than you do? Or are you just trying to keep him from killing you as well?

If you had said any of the above during World War Two, you would have been attacked as violently as anyone who claims that Islam is a religion of peace today. With the hindsight of history, we know that the Japanese are not an evil people; they just had some very foolish and shortsighted leaders. The smarter people nowadays realize the same thing about Islam.

[sundevil777 102]

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>There is no problem in the world with Shinto extremists wanting to bring
>about the fall of the western world, to impose their religion upon others.

Perhaps you missed a somewhat noteworthy event that historians call "World War Two."

Of course not, my reply was about CURRENT conditions, and how different it is now compared to before.

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>The Japanese had a true change of heart away from their imperialist
>ways and realized that their future was much better served by living and
>prospering in peace.

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?? Again, perhaps you missed the first (and only) use of nuclear weapons against civilians.

Of course not. Perhaps you've missed how petty and elitist you appear when you make such ridiculous comments. You do seem to enjoy it, to each his own.

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If a man kills your friends, then points a gun at your head and says "give me your wallet" and you do - have you had a true change of heart, and decided that he really did deserve your money more than you do? Or are you just trying to keep him from killing you as well?

I think the Japanese would have had that change of heart even if they had been conquered without the use of the atomic bomb. It seems that Islamofacists do not appear to be capable of such a change of heart. That fact might support a containment strategy, as opposed to a win-the-war strategy. I'm willing to admit that might be the better strategy, however it seems that most that are against the war against Islamofacism think that peace can be achieved with apologies and concessions. I think peace will be had when there are more leaders such as Anwar Sadat. He had a true change of heart. He had led wars against Israel, but later honestly realized it did not serve his people's interest.

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If you had said any of the above during World War Two, you would have been attacked as violently as anyone who claims that Islam is a religion of peace today. With the hindsight of history, we know that the Japanese are not an evil people; they just had some very foolish and shortsighted leaders. The smarter people nowadays realize the same thing about Islam.

The smarter people also realize that the change did not happen from a position of weakness, it did not happen because we apologized or made concessions to them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

• Quote

[billvon 3,009]

>Of course not, my reply was about CURRENT conditions, and how
>different it is now compared to before.

It is indeed different. We wisely got over our fear of the Japanese. A good opportunity to learn from history, eh?

>I think the Japanese would have had that change of heart even if they
>had been conquered without the use of the atomic bomb.

A great many historians disagree, and claim the war would have been long and bloody. Indeed, this is the primary historical justification for using nuclear weapons against civilians.

>The smarter people also realize that the change did not happen from a
>position of weakness, it did not happen because we apologized or made
>concessions to them.

We DID apologize and we DID make concessions to the Japanese.

===========
In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".[12] Over $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to Japanese Americans who had either suffered internment or were heirs of those who had suffered internment.[13]
===========

And - more importantly - got over our fear of them.

[sundevil777 102]

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Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Of course not, that is a logical fallacy, but besides the fact that it is not logical, others have not claimed that all muslims are terrorists. They have claimed that the leadership of the proposed mosque has ties to Islamofacism. Big difference.

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I'll bet you can't anwser the questions without being forced to question your position, so you won't.

You would be wrong. It is easy to refute because it is a crappy analogy. The YMCA isn't associated with anything bad that happened at ground zero.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[funjumper101 15]

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Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Of course not, that is a logical fallacy, but besides the fact that it is not logical, others have not claimed that all muslims are terrorists. They have claimed that the leadership of the proposed mosque has ties to Islamofacism. Big difference.

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I'll bet you can't anwser the questions without being forced to question your position, so you won't.

You would be wrong. It is easy to refute because it is a crappy analogy. The YMCA isn't associated with anything bad that happened at ground zero.

You call it a logical fallacy. That is laughable. What IS happening on this issue is that folks from all over the USA have been whipped into a frenzy of hatred over a local zoning issue regarding contruction of a Moslem Community Center in Lower Manhattan. It is a FACT that the Christian equivalent to this facility is a YMCA. If New Yorkers got involved in a local zoning issue in OK City over the siting of a YMCA, that would be wrong. As wrong as you and your kind sticking your nose into this issue.

The YMCA is associated with Christianity. Christianity has plenty of history regarding child molestation, terrorism, and extremism associated with parts of Christianity. You call it a crappy anaolgy because it exposes your position as having a foundation based on.... nothing.

This Moslem Community Center is not associated with anything that occured on 9/11. You may wish otherwise. You may even believe otherwise. You would be wrong. 100% totally wrong. Much like the 18% polled that think Obama is a Moslem. Thinking something is true does not make it so, especialy when the facts are completely exposed for all to see.

[sundevil777 102]

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>Of course not, my reply was about CURRENT conditions, and how
>different it is now compared to before.

It is indeed different. We wisely got over our fear of the Japanese. A good opportunity to learn from history, eh?

Definitely an opportunity for you to learn that the order of events is important. The change of heart, finding the peaceful way came before we got over the fear of them. The sequence is important, eh?

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>I think the Japanese would have had that change of heart even if they
>had been conquered without the use of the atomic bomb.

A great many historians disagree, and claim the war would have been long and bloody. Indeed, this is the primary historical justification for using nuclear weapons against civilians.

I think you are mistaken about what I said. I never said that an invasion would have been easy. I just said that they would have had that change of heart even if they had been conquered without the use of the atomic bomb. They continued to have great faith and trust in their emperor, and fortunately he was able to get his speech out to the public. It was the military leadership that did not want to surrender and almost prevented the emperor from doing it - even the 2 A-bombs didn't change that. The defeat of the Japanese was going to happen, and their change of heart was just as inevitable.

Truman's fear of the Russian's wanting to help conquer Japan as our allies was a big part of his decision to use the bomb. He didn't want them getting in there as they had grabbed up parts of Europe. Historians typically do not recognize this as an important part of Truman's decision making.

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We DID apologize and we DID make concessions to the Japanese.

Remember the order of events...it was after they changed their ways.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,009]

> I just said that they would have had that change of heart even if they
>had been conquered without the use of the atomic bomb. They continued
>to have great faith and trust in their emperor . . .

Sorry, are you talking about the Japanese _people_ as opposed to their government? I don't think the people there had much of a change of heart at all; most Japanese were not the scary fight-to-the-death kamikazes the western media portrayed them as. They were, for the most part, just regular people, living their lives as best they could during a devastating war. The reason that Japan so quickly changed from an enemy to an ally was that the people were never really our enemy to begin with (despite widespread US belief to the contrary, at least during and shortly after the war.)

> It was the military leadership that did not want to surrender . . .

Agreed, and it's important to make that distinction.

>Remember the order of events...it was after they changed their ways.

I think the lesson of internment camps was not "good thing we put those evil US Japanese in prison camps so they could change their ways."

I think it's pretty clear that the lesson was "wow, that was a really, really evil thing to do to US Japanese who had nothing to do with the war, and it reflected very poorly on us." Which is what the apology was for. It was most emphatically not a good idea, nor were the internment camps any part of the reason for any way-changing.

Likewise, we are now involved in a hate campaign against Muslims who had nothing to do with 9/11. It reflects poorly on us as a nation. We should strive to not make the same mistakes again.

[happythoughts 0]

Everyone understands that the Japanese have not posed
an obvious, unified threat to the US in 60 years.

I guess the original question should be, "Why do we not
feel threatened by people who do not threaten us?"
Of course, that sounds silly.

"Hey, how about those Huns? That Attila was sure a problem..."

Then, there is a weak attempt to establish linkage between
that group and another group as somehow being similar.

The second group routinely appears in every media group as actively threatening the US.

So, the thread is too illogical to have any purpose other
than to derail any valuable discussion.
That is the sad part. Instead of addressing issues, they just try to deny reality.

[sundevil777 102]

Sounds like you think Islamofacism is not a threat to the western world.

That is denying reality.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[happythoughts 0]

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Sounds like you think Islamofacism is not a threat to the western world.

That is denying reality.

It's not. Terrorism is the problem. Once terrorism fades, people will mingle and culture will alter Islam.

Satellite tv programs from the West will change the direction of Eastern thought in 15 years.
The West will never decide it wants to move back to the 14th century.

Little girls will watch women be doctors on tv dramas
and decide they want something different.

Islam is not a danger. It is just the same as any other stupid religion.

[funjumper101 15]

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a Shinto shrine on the major freeway leading from Honolulu to Pearl Harbor. Just five miles away is the spot where Japanese planes dropped their bombs on the American fleet...

I have no problem with the New York mosque moving five miles away from ground zero.

Quote

So much for the right wing bigoted assholes that talk smack about the US Constitution.
Why are you right wing sheeple all whipped up into a froth over a local zoning issue?
Because you are REALLY FUCKING STUPID!!! Not to mention gullible and astonishingly ignorant.

Thank you for your love, understanding and tolerance.

Here is a fine example of emotion and ignorance overcoming rational thought.

The 5 miles in the story refers to the distance between the site of the Shinto shrine and the Pearl Harbor memorial. Anyone with basic knowlege of the Pearl Harbor attack knows that the site of the memorial is not the only place that bombs landed and people were killed. The entire area was bombed and shot up. Logically speaking, Pearl Harbor's "Ground Zero" is the entire area, not just the site of the memorial. That puts the Shinto shrine in the middle of ground zero for the attack.

The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that?

Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center?

Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics?

The ideals of this country are being seriously challenged by RWCs. They are trying to set aside parts of the US Constitution for short term political gain. They are finding a willing and easily led audience that has no historical knowlege or perspective. The lack of basic civics knowlege these days is incredible. It is a scary time for the USA.

John, you didn't answer any of my questions. Why is that? are they too challenging? Do they make your head spin?

You present a position, but can't logically defend it, is my conclusion.

Here they are again. Give it a go and see what you can come up with.

Begin quoted text>>>

The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that?

Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center?

Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics?

[turtlespeed 221]

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Begin quoted text>>>

The religious facility at the Pentagon is a mosque when it is used by Muslims performing their religious rituals. In the right wing jingoistic way of thinking, that means that ShrubCo placed a mosque at ground zero for Pentagon attack. There was no RWC backlash at that time. Why is that?

Why is ~25,000 feet a better distance than ~1000 for the placement of a Muslim Community Center?

Would it be OK for for New Yorkers to get involved in a local zoning decision regarding placement of a YMCA near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Timothy McVeigh self identified as Christian, so that means all "Christians" are terrorists, right?

Blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe fanatics is wrong. The WBC is a Christian church. Does that make all Christains lunatics?

He probably aknowledges atht your questions aren't worth it to him to answer . . .

But I will -

Perception.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[funjumper101 15]

The bigots are wrong and can't logically defend their position on this matter.

I despise those that are actively engaged in working towards ruining this coutry. The bigots who fall for the emotional crap from the scumbags on the right must be called out and held accountable.

Clearly there is no rational defense to the facts of the matter, so pretending that there is is required to save face.

Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

[funjumper101 15]

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The bigots are wrong and can't logically defend their position on this matter.

I despise those that are actively engaged in working towards ruining this coutry. The bigots who fall for the emotional crap from the scumbags on the right must be called out and held accountable.

Clearly there is no rational defense to the facts of the matter, so pretending that there is is required to save face.

Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

[funjumper101 15]

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The bigots are wrong and can't logically defend their position on this matter.

I despise those that are actively engaged in working towards ruining this coutry. The bigots who fall for the emotional crap from the scumbags on the right must be called out and held accountable.

Clearly there is no rational defense to the facts of the matter, so pretending that there is is required to save face.



Cowards and bullies always run away when challenged.

• Quote

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[funjumper101 15]

RUN AWAY when you can't think and can't answer the questions.