0
JohnRich

Cordoba Mosque = The Conquest of Manhattan

Recommended Posts

Quote

Quote

The Cordoba Initiative is building the Community Centre/mosque, they are not the Community Centre/mosque.



Same thing. The term "Cordoba" has negative consequences for east-west relations, which is the purported purpose of this Imam and mosque. Therefore, he shouldn't use the term.



Seriously?

Come on, exactly how many people did it have negative connotations for until last week? To me 'Cordoba' and 'mosque' just associates with 'cool building,' and I'd imagine that's what it means to pretty much everyone who'd ever heard of it before it was spun up with these protests.

Any name he'd chosen that had any Islamic heritage would have been bitched about. Hell, if he'd chosen a completely neutral word people would probably be saying he was just trying to hide his true motives.

Quote

How about if someone started a "Crusades Initiative" to build a Christian church in the middle of Mecca - do you suppose the muslims might be offended by that name and action? Would that be a good way to foster good east-west relations?



Not really the same. "The Crusades" referring specifically to the wars of conquest rather than any politically and culturally significant nation state that resulted from it. And the Crusades also not particularly famous for creating any stable or productive regimes at all.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

> The term "Cordoba" has negative consequences for east-west relations . . .

The first city where Muslims lived in peace with Jews and Christians has negative consequences? OK, then. Good thing they didn't name it that.



Yeah that is not something you see in the Muslim world these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

News:

Cordoba Mosque = The Conquest of Lower Manhattan From a Crime Victims Perspective

The Cordoba Initiative and Park51, the amended title of the Cordoba Mosque project at Ground Zero, is inflaming public opinion like no other issue in recent history... and rightfully so.

This project is purposefully named after "The Great Mosque" or "Mezquita" in Cordoba, Spain. In the early 8th century, The Christian Church of Saint Vincent sat upon the foundation of a Roman temple. Then the Moors (or Arabs) came, tore down St. Vincent's and built "The Great Mosque" to commemorate their victory over the Christians in Southern Spain. This conquest of the territory signified the Islamic supremacy over the Christians. And the Cordoba Mosque became the second most important house of worship, after Mecca, in the Muslim world.

So I ask? Why is this project being called the Cordoba Initiative here in lower Manhattan? If Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the Cordoba Initiative, was interested in building bridges between the Muslims and the West, why would they name the mosque something so incendiary?
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danielle-parker/cordoba-mosque-the-conque_b_691583.html



More RWC bullshit here.

Why do you and your kind HATE the US Constitution so much?

Why is the concept of "Freedom of religion" so abhorrent to you?

You folks should pack up your shit and move to a theocracy. Might I suggest Saudi Arabia? You would be right at home with those fine folks.

Porn shops and gay bars have been opened CLOSER to the Ground Zero site than the Moslem Community Center will be. That makes the assertion of "hallowed ground" extending for blocks around the site totally laughable to anyone with even half a brain cell.
Are you folks REALLY that fucking STUPID? The answer, sadly, is YES WE ARE!!!

The history of Cordoba, Spain is long, complicated and involved. Folks with normal reasoning skills and the ability to do research know that the city of Cordoba is justly famous for the centuries of peaceful coexistence of Christians, Moslems, and Jews. The project is named after the city of Cordoba on the basis of the long and peaceful interfaith relations in that great city.
The revisionist history being pushed by the RWCs is factually incorrect. What else would come from RWCs? They have little to no regard for truth.

Did any of you nitwits catch the footage of Shrub talking at Ground Zero, shortly after the attack? Look it up on YouTube. The moslem religion is NOT the enemy.

Did any of you nitwits catch your hero Glenn Beck appearing on the same show as Rauf and PRAISING him for his work towards bringing together people of different faiths?

You scumbags opposed to the construction of the Community Center are so un-american and un-patriotic, it is amazing.

I hope that your children get to watch the video and read what you wrote, years from now. They will view you with the same disdain and disgust that is felt when showing the fine folks of Montgomery, AL protesting school integration. You are on the wrong side of history, in a sick and disgusting way.

HAVE YOU NO SHAME?
You are going against the finest ideals of this great nation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

> The term "Cordoba" has negative consequences for east-west relations . . .

The first city where Muslims lived in peace with Jews and Christians has negative consequences? OK, then. Good thing they didn't name it that.



Selective cognition again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

> The term "Cordoba" has negative consequences for east-west relations . . .

The first city where Muslims lived in peace with Jews and Christians has negative consequences? OK, then. Good thing they didn't name it that.



Selective cognition again.



Is there any place where the historical borders of Islamic and Christian territories have met where there hasn't been warfare and conquest? Is there anywhere the historical borders of Christian and [insert religion here] territories have met and there hasn't been warfare? Is there anywhere the historical borders of Islamic and [insert religion here] territories have met and there hasn't been warfare.

If you want to consider why they chose that particular nameit makes sense to look at what's unusual about it, which is that, for a time, there was actually a stable, diverse society there.

If you can ignore that while focusing in on the aspect of the name that could apply to damn near anywhere on the planet if you choose the right religions, then you're being pretty damn selective.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

. . if your loved ones were in the rubble, how do you think you would treally feel?



I worked in WTC for several years. I was born in Israel and grew up a Jew in NY before realizing that religion is a crock. I lost numerous friends and co-workers that day. I strongly feel that opposing the building of this Mosque goes against the basic principles of freedom that this country was founded on. I honestly am disgusted by the people that oppose it. For the life of me I can't comprehend how you can oppose it and still call yourself a patriot.
Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



It saddens me to see so many "patriots" who loathe so much of what America is supposed to be[:/][:/]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



It saddens me to see so many "patriots" who loathe so much of what America is supposed to be[:/][:/]


Been looking in a mirror again?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



It saddens me to see so many "patriots" who loathe so much of what America is supposed to be[:/][:/]


Been looking in a mirror again?


I look daily... several times... I am quite happy with the person that is looking back at me.

When I look in the mirror I see someone who despises people like and and and ... quite a few around here who pretend to be patriots yet can't quite come to grips with their hatred of others who do not look like they do.. or worship the way they do.

AT what point are all of YOU going to grow to be a real american instead of what you seem to have become[:/][:/]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



It saddens me to see so many "patriots" who loathe so much of what America is supposed to be[:/][:/]


Been looking in a mirror again?


I look daily... several times... I am quite happy with the person that is looking back at me.

When I look in the mirror I see someone who despises people like and and and ... quite a few around here who pretend to be patriots yet can't quite come to grips with their hatred of others who do not look like they do.. or worship the way they do.

AT what point are all of YOU going to grow to be a real american instead of what you seem to have become[:/][:/]


Probably when the government backs out of social and return to doing the very bare minimum in our lives, which include protection, and little else.

In other words:
Stay out of my health care.
Keep Unions and corporations from being able to buy elections
Protect us with a cap on litigation
Get rid of welfare unless you are disabled
Decrease unemployment insurance benifits
Let us control our own money for retirement
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



It saddens me to see so many "patriots" who loathe so much of what America is supposed to be[:/][:/]


Been looking in a mirror again?


I look daily... several times... I am quite happy with the person that is looking back at me.

When I look in the mirror I see someone who despises people like and and and ... quite a few around here who pretend to be patriots yet can't quite come to grips with their hatred of others who do not look like they do.. or worship the way they do.

AT what point are all of YOU going to grow to be a real american instead of what you seem to have become[:/][:/]


Probably when the government backs out of social and return to doing the very bare minimum in our lives, which include protection, and little else.

In other words:
Stay out of my health care.
Keep Unions and corporations from being able to buy elections
Protect us with a cap on litigation
Get rid of welfare unless you are disabled
Decrease unemployment insurance benifits
Let us control our own money for retirement


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Health care is working for so many millions of americans SOOOOO WELL.
Gee the morons you vote for seem to be pretty good with the corporate welfare on a MASSIVE scale.

If you are a slimbag that rips off people... you need to be sued into the fucking dirt... whether its a doctor who fucks you up because he is rushing for a tee time.... or a corporation that puts out shoddy crap that kills your family. If your business model allows you to kill someone.. you need to be penniless and out of business
Gee... so what happens when you control your retirement and it tanks because your beloved corporate buddies tank the fucking economy again.. and its all gone.... thanks but no thanks

GEt rid of welfare.. THAT IS A FUCKING JOKE... have you actually CHECKED oh who is getting it????( other than what you are led to BELIEVE about welfare moms in the GET TO:S:S:S:S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

In other words:
Stay out of my health care.
Keep Unions and corporations from being able to buy elections
Protect us with a cap on litigation
Get rid of welfare unless you are disabled
Decrease unemployment insurance benifits
Let us control our own money for retirement



And all that has fuck-all to do with a mosque two blocks from ground zero.

- Dan G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Freedom of Religion is a core American value, even an athiest like me can see that.
John, if you keep up this Anti-American Bullshit, they are going to kick you out of Texas,
Seriously, John...you're being used as a tool by both the right wing christian fundie wankers and the radical islamic fundie wankers at the same time to further both of their agendas.



And this is why we can't have an honest debate on this issue. You guys want to demonize the folks on the other side of the issue and turn them into anti-American devils.

I would have hoped that readers would have noticed that nowhere did I ever say that anyone should be denied their freedom of religion. That's all in the heads of my detractors, because they like to jump on the demonization bandwagon, rather than to read with a clear mind. Emotional name-calling seems to trump reading what is actually said and thinking rationally.

My argument all along has been that for an Imam professing to want to improve East-West relations, he isn't being very sensitive to American culture. In other words, I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to a mosque, I'm saying he isn't going about building one the right way. It's not an argument against freedom of religion, it's an argument about the effectiveness of his methodology.

If he would simply change the location of his mosque to a place that doesn't offend New Yorkers, and change the name of the program to build it to one that doesn't have "Christian conquest" meaning associated with it, then there wouldn't be any further objections, and he could get on with his project.

If you want to improve relations, you don't do it with an "in your face" style that pisses the people off, with whom you claim to be wanting as friends. And the fact that he is so unwilling to do these simple things, makes people call into question his motives, which detracts from the project.

I hope that clarifies my position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

In other words:
Stay out of my health care.
Keep Unions and corporations from being able to buy elections
Protect us with a cap on litigation
Get rid of welfare unless you are disabled
Decrease unemployment insurance benifits
Let us control our own money for retirement



And all that has fuck-all to do with a mosque two blocks from ground zero.


Do you want a gold star?:S

It was in reply to a question.

I never want to see you reply to a non thread specific question ever again in these forums, young man, or you are grounded!
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

And this is why we can't have an honest debate on this issue. You guys want to demonize the folks on the other side of the issue and turn them into anti-American devils.

I would have hoped that readers would have noticed that nowhere did I ever say that anyone should be denied their freedom of religion. That's all in the heads of my detractors, because they like to jump on the demonization bandwagon, rather than to read with a clear mind. Emotional name-calling seems to trump reading what is actually said and thinking rationally.

My argument all along has been that for an Imam professing to want to improve East-West relations, he isn't being very sensitive to American culture. In other words, I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to a mosque, I'm saying he isn't going about building one the right way. It's not an argument against freedom of religion, it's an argument about the effectiveness of his methodology.

If he would simply change the location of his mosque to a place that doesn't offend New Yorkers, and change the name of the program to build it to one that doesn't have "Christian conquest" meaning associated with it, then there wouldn't be any further objections, and he could get on with his project.

If you want to improve relations, you don't do it with an "in your face" style that pisses the people off, with whom you claim to be wanting as friends. And the fact that he is so unwilling to do these simple things, makes people call into question his motives, which detracts from the project.

I hope that clarifies my position.



My God, the world has seen a new paradigm of irony.

This is such bullshit I don't even know where to start. And even if I respond, I know whatever I say will be twisted, you will redefine words to mean things they don't, claim that you meant something that you didn't say, and then start a new thread as if the old one didn't exist.

It's pointless, but everyone with any sense knows you are blowing a record amount of smoke on this one.

- Dan G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If he would simply change the location of his mosque to a place that doesn't offend New Yorkers, and change the name of the program to build it to one that doesn't have "Christian conquest" meaning associated with it, then there wouldn't be any further objections, and he could get on with his project.

If you want to improve relations, you don't do it with an "in your face" style that pisses the people off, with whom you claim to be wanting as friends. And the fact that he is so unwilling to do these simple things, makes people call into question his motives, which detracts from the project.



Honestly, I think that's down to naivety on his part rather than insensitivity. It's also naive on your part to think that the name has anything to do with anyone opposing the mosque.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0