The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

[Bolas 5]

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I hope he can see that the popular support of the Patriot Act (which he contributed to) led directly to this.

The Patriot Act is not what led to this, advances in technology and shrinking police budgets did. The Patriot Act is simply now being used as possibly another justifier of it.

We're crossing into new LEO territory that was paved with speed and light cams: "Can duties that can be legally done by an officer be automated to be done by a machine?"

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

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We're crossing into new LEO territory that was paved with speed and light cams: "Can duties that can be legally done by an officer be automated to be done by a machine?"

Only to a certain extent and only for the most heinous crimes being sought after on a national basis.

The flood of information is simply too large to care about for small shit because ultimately police still would have to send somebody out to arrest "criminals" and there just isn't the manpower to do that for the small shit.

The fear should be of being in the wrong place with the wrong device at the wrong time and getting swept up in something larger, but that too is a straw man when you consider how quickly that would get sorted out.

I'm not saying the current system is right. I'm certainly not defending it. But if the average person thinks this new legislation gives the government any new powers to track them, they're woefully wrong. As stated before, if you carry a modern cell phone, you've already put the tracker on yourself.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Bolas 5]

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The flood of information is simply too large to care about for small shit because ultimately police still would have to send somebody out to arrest "criminals" and there just isn't the manpower to do that for the small shit.

At this point I'd agree but consider this: A huge database that tracked all the "small shit" and created not only metrics on it, but did trend analysis. That could easily be justified as way to allocate their resources.

Now start associating those events to the individuals. Once a certain number of events were accumulated, it might trigger an officer to go arrest them. Additionally, if questioned, they could pull your record and decide to detain you. Here's the big one: A politician is wanting to show he's tough on x crime. They simply run a report of all who've committed x and go arrest or fine them.

The technology is there already but the systems and databases don't have the intercommunication capabilities or capacity so would be extremely expensive to implement.

Fast forward 5-10 years and it may be a different story.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

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Here's the big one: A politician is wanting to show he's tough on x crime. They simply run a report of all who've committed x and go arrest or fine them.

Except GPS only places the device at the scene of the crime. Now, if you are the kind of guy that finds yourself trespassing a lot, sure, there might be some concern. However, I don't see how me being at a liquor store at 3 am while it's getting held up means I did it. In fact, it doesn't even mean I was there. I certainly could have given the phone to somebody else or had it stolen.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Bolas 5]

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Here's the big one: A politician is wanting to show he's tough on x crime. They simply run a report of all who've committed x and go arrest or fine them.

Except GPS only places the device at the scene of the crime. Now, if you are the kind of guy that finds yourself trespassing a lot, sure, there might be some concern. However, I don't see how me being at a liquor store at 3 am while it's getting held up means I did it. In fact, it doesn't even mean I was there. I certainly could have given the phone to somebody else or had it stolen.

GPS combined data with surveillance cameras.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

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Here's the big one: A politician is wanting to show he's tough on x crime. They simply run a report of all who've committed x and go arrest or fine them.

Except GPS only places the device at the scene of the crime. Now, if you are the kind of guy that finds yourself trespassing a lot, sure, there might be some concern. However, I don't see how me being at a liquor store at 3 am while it's getting held up means I did it. In fact, it doesn't even mean I was there. I certainly could have given the phone to somebody else or had it stolen.

GPS combined data with surveillance cameras.

But again, they'd already have access to the camera data, which might clear you if it's a case of mistaken identity.

I've never thought the issue is a massive police sweep anyway. To me the issue would be something like your company not liking the way you spend your free time and depending on what technologies get introduced, like that iris scan thing in another thread, doable on a much smaller busy-body scale I've dubbed "Little Brother."

The guys you need to look out for aren't the ones that have to look out for the safety of the country. The ones to look out for are the pricks you have to deal with in your daily life like your employer.

Fortunately, they don't have access to the cell phone GPS tracking information -- well, unless your boss is the cell phone company.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[funjumper101 15]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

Why do you have a problem with this?
Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

In other threads you are perfectly happy with the First Amendment violations occuring with the trumped up controversy over the Moslem Community center in Manhattan. You know, the one near the porn shops and bars two blocks from one of the sites of the 9/11 attacks?

Yet here you are writing in defense of Constitutional Rights to privacy.

Your inconsistent application of Constitutional Rights is confusing. Why do some parts of the Constitution matter, and others don't?

Explain, please.

[funjumper101 15]

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NO

Then offer something productive about the topic at hand.

It is the PERFECT example of the law of unintended consequences.
Any ill thought out meddling in a complex system will create unanticipated and often undesirable consequences as seen with the turd known as the Patriot Act.

It appears that those who supported said turd are having second thoughts about that support.

Pardon me while I gloat with a HUGE



I TOLD YOU SO

you know... I many times thought a couple of not-nice words about you in the above replies and kept them to myself. I decided I might have been wrong in thinking those things. It appears I wasn't.

I'll still keep my opinion to myself, but if you're trying to convince anyone you're capable of rational thought, you're going about it the wrong way.

Her thoughts and words are totally rational. They are a product of a long and interesting life, along with a well developed sense of right and wrong.

There has been nothing positive from the RWCs and the Rescumlicans in a very long time. The concentration of ownership of the media in the hands of the extremely wealthy has led to an abundance of self serving disinformation that helps them acheive their goals. Real wages for the average person have gone down drastically, while the income of the top 1% has skyrocketed. And the sheeple of the world go along with it. Those of us old enought to have lived a good bit of history, have traveled extensively, and know folks from other parts of the world have a unique and knowlegeable perspective compared to those that have never really been anywhere or done anything.

The fact that you can't grasp the world view and understand it doesn't make it senseless. It just means it is beyond your comprehension.

The RWCs believe that that which they cannot understand must be bad.

[Coreece 190]

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"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go

They got me with this a couple of times...I started getting suspicious when everytime I went out there were always hoards of state troopers checking me out...

...Still not sure why that plain clothes DEA fed stopped me to give me a piece of his mind...they must be really paranoid.



A spy matrix pro helped ease the tention if you know what I mean...

...but it really sux...I'm not even a felon...nor a snitch!

Proverbs 11:13
A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.

What can you do to me...stab me shoot me.

send me to jail and I'll convert em all, just like last time.

you are no match for the wisdom of God!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[popsjumper 2]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

Why do you have a problem with this?
Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

*sigh*
This is exactly the thought process that got us where we are today.

Big Brother thanks you for your support.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Amazon 7]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

Why do you have a problem with this?
Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

*sigh*
This is exactly the thought process that got us where we are today.

Big Brother thanks you for your support.

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh... there goes that missing sarcasm icon again

[funjumper101 15]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

Why do you have a problem with this?
Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

*sigh*
This is exactly the thought process that got us where we are today.

Big Brother thanks you for your support.

You missed the missing sarcasm smiley.

Go read the John's Cordoba thread, and my Shinto Shrine at Pearl Harbor thread. My posts make clear my thoughts on Constitutional rights.

By the way, John, the right to privacy is a legal construct by the SCOTUS. This is the same construct that was used in Roe v Wade. Are you saying that you agree with Roe v Wade?

For the record, it is my belief that abortion should be safe, legal, readily available, and EXTREMELY rare. Government and religious intrusion into this matter should be illegal.

[DFWAJG 4]

Why do you have a problem with this?
Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

1. Because we are not a "police" state.
2. Government institutions are not allowed to invade our personal property without a warrant.
3. It's trespassing.
4. It's vandalism, defacing someone's vehicle.

[Skyrad 0]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

So you're concerned about terroists and other criminals operating within the USA but you're against the Government being able effectivly operate against them. Interesting.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Do you carry a mobile phone? Is it always switched on?

Shhhh the wascally wabbits will hear

No, I hear someone shot them all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DFWAJG 4]

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News:

The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS

"Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

"That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant..."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000

So you're concerned about terroists and other criminals operating within the USA but you're against the Government being able effectivly operate against them. Interesting.

The case that brought this about wasn't a terrorist, it was just a guy who grows some pot in his house.

Taking away our basic rights is terrorism. I would rather die in freedom than live in confinement.

[Skyrad 0]

So he comes under 'other criminals '

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[JohnRich 4]

Update:

Appeals court derails use of GPS in case

A sharply-divided federal appeals court has rejected a Justice Department bid to overturn a ruling saying the government's use of GPS technology to track a suspect violates the Fourth Amendment.

In a case closely watched by national civil liberties groups, the 5-4 ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit Friday came three months after a three-judge panel reversed the life sentence of man convicted of running a drug ring from a D.C. nightclub.

Lawyers for the defendant, Antoine Jones, had argued that the government's use of GPS technology violated his "reasonable expectation of privacy."...

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/22/appeals-court-derails-gps-technology-drug-case/

[rushmc 23]

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Update:

Appeals court derails use of GPS in case

A sharply-divided federal appeals court has rejected a Justice Department bid to overturn a ruling saying the government's use of GPS technology to track a suspect violates the Fourth Amendment.

In a case closely watched by national civil liberties groups, the 5-4 ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit Friday came three months after a three-judge panel reversed the life sentence of man convicted of running a drug ring from a D.C. nightclub.

Lawyers for the defendant, Antoine Jones, had argued that the government's use of GPS technology violated his "reasonable expectation of privacy."...

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/22/appeals-court-derails-gps-technology-drug-case/

While it is a bad thing this criminal will get a pass (maybe) I have to agree with this ruling.

We are on a slippery slope in a lot of areas today. Seems the court threw out a little sand to stop the slide

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gmanpilot 0]

If the Fed's had the probable cause to obtain the court order for the Title III wiretap, they certainly had probable cause to electronically monitor the defendants vehicle if it was being used in furtherance of...blah blah, blah.... It sounds like lazy police work is going to lead to this guy getting acquitted.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[popsjumper 2]

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....

...Clearly if you have done nothing wrong, and are doing nothing wrong, you would have nothing to worry about if you were monitored in this manner.

*sigh*
This is exactly the thought process that got us where we are today.

Big Brother thanks you for your support.