Death Penalty

[turtlespeed 226]

Up or down vote.

Friend of ours was killed.

They found the killer.

The evidence is overwhelming.

The killer was sentenced to Death.

I have mixed emotions and would like to open this up for reasonable, and intelligent conversations.

Please leave Obama and Bush and all that other shit out of it if at all possible.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 210]

Where's the 'not sure' option or the 'it depends'.

I live in Ohio. We've been in a race with Tx for the past couple of years. I struggle with the death penalty for a couple of reasons...

1. Chance for a mistake.
2. It doesn't serve it's intended purpose.

Because I can't say that I'm 100% pro I guess I have to say no.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 226]

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Where's the 'not sure' option or the 'it depends'.

I live in Ohio. We've been in a race with Tx for the past couple of years. I struggle with the death penalty for a couple of reasons...

1. Chance for a mistake.
2. It doesn't serve it's intended purpose.

Because I can't say that I'm 100% pro I guess I have to say no.

Because I was referring to this case in particular.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 210]

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Where's the 'not sure' option or the 'it depends'.

I live in Ohio. We've been in a race with Tx for the past couple of years. I struggle with the death penalty for a couple of reasons...

1. Chance for a mistake.
2. It doesn't serve it's intended purpose.

Because I can't say that I'm 100% pro I guess I have to say no.

Because I was referring to this case in particular.

My points are still applicable. Unless you have mutliple eyewitnesses there is still a chance for error. ANd the appeals process is exhaustive. By your own admission you say you're not sure.

I'm just sayin'

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[NWFlyer 2]

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Because I was referring to this case in particular.

Still pretty mixed for me, because 1) it's hard for me to look at this case (one to which I have a strong emotional attachment) in a vacuum separate from how I feel about our criminal justice system's ability, in general, to accurately and fairly assess guilt or innocence on a consistent enough basis to warrant death as a punishment and 2) I know very little about the evidence from first-hand experience (I've been told the evidence was strong, and I've no reason not to believe that, but since I wasn't in the courtroom listening I can't confirm it).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[quade 4]

I have no issues with the death penalty if the case is 100% solid. I'm not sure what the phrase "evidence is overwhelming" means though. I thought the evidence in the OJ Simpson case was overwhelming considering the DNA evidence. I was stunned when he walked.

However in the case of say, Jack Ruby, where there are multiple witnesses and film . . . I'd say it's 100% certain Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. Death penalty there? Sure, no issues.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterrig 1]

From what I read of the case (if it's the same one you are referring to) I say yes. If, I read correctly, the case involved a broken trust, theft and murder. Also, everything about the case appeared 'air-tight'.


Chuck

[Glitch 0]

I vote yes. My only reservations to the death penalty are 1) The costs to tax payers for the seemingly endless appeals processes and 2) The possibility of executing an innocent man. My solution to this would be an independant review of all evidence and essentially an independant second bench trial (outside the jurisdiction of the original trial) where the DP was given. If both convict, then allow 1 timely appeal. If the appeal fails, grant the fucker his last meal and put a bullet in his head (or hang him, fry him, juice him up... I don't really care by what method the sentence is carried out.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[Skyrad 0]

Number of points.

1) The death penalty is surely only ever give when the evidence is overwhelming, if it wasn't then the person wouldn't be able to have been found guilty. Yet mistakes have happened on numerous occasions.

2) What is the intended purpose of the DP? If its to prevent reoffending its pretty effective (so long as its the right person) if its to deter others it doesn't work. If its for retribution, well then it works only in the short term, chances are that it wouldn't give the satisfied feeling in the long term.

3) You don't give us enough informatio about your friend and the circumstances surrounding their death. If they were a gang banger who got killed over drugs then that a very different situation than if they were a clean living youngster who was shot in a drive by.

Personally I think there is certain circumstance where it is appropriate (The moors murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, the Soham murderer and his ilk, the Washington Snipers, yes both of them) but I can't pick one of your options as there is too little information.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Lucky... 0]

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Up or down vote.

Friend of ours was killed.

They found the killer.

The evidence is overwhelming.

The killer was sentenced to Death.

I have mixed emotions and would like to open this up for reasonable, and intelligent conversations.

Please leave Obama and Bush and all that other shit out of it if at all possible.

If we have a process to execute scum who deserve it, we will also use the same process to kill the occassional innocent person. And that doesn't address the idea of being in the killing business.

[Lucky... 0]

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I have no issues with the death penalty if the case is 100% solid. I'm not sure what the phrase "evidence is overwhelming" means though. I thought the evidence in the OJ Simpson case was overwhelming considering the DNA evidence. I was stunned when he walked.

However in the case of say, Jack Ruby, where there are multiple witnesses and film . . . I'd say it's 100% certain Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. Death penalty there? Sure, no issues.

There is virtually no such thing as 100% in reality. And cases that are 70% seem to creep up to 80 or 90, etc. It's just too expensive and problematic for what, revenge?

[Lucky... 0]

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I vote yes. My only reservations to the death penalty are 1) The costs to tax payers for the seemingly endless appeals processes and 2) The possibility of executing an innocent man. My solution to this would be an independant review of all evidence and essentially an independant second bench trial (outside the jurisdiction of the original trial) where the DP was given. If both convict, then allow 1 timely appeal. If the appeal fails, grant the fucker his last meal and put a bullet in his head (or hang him, fry him, juice him up... I don't really care by what method the sentence is carried out.

Do I need to list all the people exonerated after years and multi appeals? If you condone your process, you're condoning state-sanctioned murder on rare occassion.

Ray Krone is a great example, he had 2 trials in front of hillbillies and was convicted both times, the forst sentenced to death, 3 years later to life as teh judge doubted his guilt. 7 years and 300k from a family relative they got the shirt tested for DNA; it possessed teh DNA of a guy in prison for a like crime, he confessed and got life, I spoke with his attny a year ago. Anyway, it was a huge case and using your model, he would be dead at the hands of the state; how do you feel about your system now?

[Lucky... 0]

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Number of points.

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1) The death penalty is surely only ever give when the evidence is overwhelming, if it wasn't then the person wouldn't be able to have been found guilty. Yet mistakes have happened on numerous occasions.

Actually not true, Ray Krone's case only had a bite impression that was wrong. He frequented teh bar the victim worked at too. Otehr than that, there was piss for evidence.

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2) What is the intended purpose of the DP? If its to prevent reoffending its pretty effective (so long as its the right person) if its to deter others it doesn't work. If its for retribution, well then it works only in the short term, chances are that it wouldn't give the satisfied feeling in the long term.

100% correct.

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3) You don't give us enough informatio about your friend and the circumstances surrounding their death. If they were a gang banger who got killed over drugs then that a very different situation than if they were a clean living youngster who was shot in a drive by.

True.

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Personally I think there is certain circumstance where it is appropriate (The moors murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, the Soham murderer and his ilk, the Washington Snipers, yes both of them) but I can't pick one of your options as there is too little information.

There are circumstances, but a huge price to pay for revenge; millions of dollars and the occassional innocent person killed.

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[Roxxx 0]

Killing is wrong, we're guides, not godds...

Emotion overrides all logic...

Every moment is like a skydive. We have five senses that are stimulated in a moment,
then, a reaction, and the reaction is emotion...
the result, the emotional match.

People always go for the emotional match in a moment, so if the moment is bad/wrong, change the next... shit, I don't know what I'm saying...

"Two wrongs, don't make a right." said, my mom.

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

I do not have any issues with the death penalty, but I vote for whatever costs taxpayers less.

Frankly, I think it is more of a punishment to spend life in prison anyway.

Whatever is cheaper is fine with me.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[Lucky... 0]

  Quote

Killing is wrong, we're guides, not godds...

Emotion overrides all logic...

Every moment is like a skydive. We have five senses that are stimulated in a moment,
then, a reaction, and the reaction is emotion...
the result, the emotional match.

People always go for the emotional match in a moment, so if the moment is bad/wrong, change the next... shit, I don't know what I'm saying...

"Two wrongs, don't make a right." said, my mom.

I totally agree. We wonder why our society is so violent; look no further than the court system, massive military, etc.

[Skyrad 0]

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Personally I think there is certain circumstance where it is appropriate (The moors murderers, The Yorkshire Ripper, the Soham murderer and his ilk, the Washington Snipers, yes both of them)

Actually Lucky, in the cases mentioned above (and similar type cases) its not about revenge just simply freeing up prison space as these people will never be released and if used sparingly I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper than keeping them alive for the next however many decades.

However, its easy to say when I'm not actually voting on the DP in real life. In that case I think I would have to think a lot longer and harder. I think I'd be less inclined to support the DP if life really did mean life (not 9 years)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[TriGirl 329]

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Frankly, I think it is more of a punishment to spend life in prison anyway.

Although not as much of a punishment as it used to be.

Maybe consider bringing back some clearly defined "hard labor" as a real sentence. It's applied in some places (or some kind of uncomfortable working conditions while prisoners repay society, such as Arizona), but could be an option for those states without DP, and a third option for juries who think "life" isn't enough but DP is over the line.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[normiss 843]

I dunno...maybe less fear...but it seems a sentence to insanity at the very least.
We should have prisons go back to the almost open environment of general population as opposed to protective solitary confinement.

I think that would also reduce costs significantly.

[mnealtx 0]

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I think that would also reduce costs significantly.

In a 'Kilkenny Cat' sort of way, I'm sure it would.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dks13827 3]

Humans are violent, always have been. Most of us here in the U.S., however, are quite able to control the urge to do unspeakable things to other people.

[wmw999 2,515]

I think any prisoner for currently-capital crimes should be able to volunteer for the death penalty. I also think any prisoner for sexual crimes should be able to volunteer for state-provided castration.

Other than that, it seems to serve more to remind people of what happened during the endless appeals and eventual (maybe) execution. Yeah, some people don't really deserve to live. But people seem to have a pretty terrible habit of judging people by criteria that lead to bad decisions.

I know that when the murderer of an acquaintance was finally put to death some 10 years later, there was no real feeling of "finally" among her friends (whom I was working with by then).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[loumeinhart 0]

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totally agree. We wonder why our society is so violent; look no further than the court system, massive military, etc.

That is so ignorant

[jclalor 12]

Why is it that the people who claim the government is never to be trusted, have no problem trusting them when they then execute a person?

[skipbelt 0]

3 lefts make a right , especially if they're 90 degree turns. our justice system loosely operates under the principle that it is better to let 10 guilty men free than to wrongly convict 1 . the problem with innocents being executed is it's extremely rare . 97% of murder cases are pleaded out , the remaining 3 % are only prosecuted because the case is so strong . !
btw killing isn't wrong , murder is , if you are ever in the position of having to take a life to save yours or anothers you will see !