dreamdancer 0 #101 September 27, 2010 Quote "Nine activists on a Turkish ship were killed as they attempted to breach the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza" Well, no shit. Something different expected? i'm happy you agree that israeli soldiers (like german soldiers) don't have the right to murder civilians stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #102 September 27, 2010 Quote i think you're confusing arabs (who haven't tried to exterminate the jews) with europeans (who did try to exterminate the jews). why can't israel have a homeland in the US - it's a big country and you're a very generous people i've heard Could be because they are already there? Could be that a LOT of politicians already came to agreements and put those agreements into action. COULD be that only anti-semites want them gone, or at least think that they might should move somewhere else?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #103 September 27, 2010 what they should do is share the land fairly with the new state of palestine then everyone will be happy stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #104 September 27, 2010 Quote what they should do is share the land fairly with the new state of palestine then everyone will be happy And maybe a one world government should rise up.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #105 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote what they should do is share the land fairly with the new state of palestine then everyone will be happy And maybe a one world government should rise up. i think we'll stick with the UN in the meantime have you read their report on israel?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #106 September 27, 2010 Quote what they should do is share the land fairly with the new state of palestine then everyone will be happy Isn't Jordan the Palestinian state? Why don't the Palestinians just move back home? Then everyone will be happy. Oh, wait ...it ain't about making everyone happy.... it's about ridding the Middle East of the state of Israel. Ottoman Empire sided with the losing side in WW1. Ottoman Empire was partitioned as a result of losing. Turkey fought for independence and the resulting treaty guaranteed their independence and transferred "Palestine" to the British. The British endeavored to established a Jewish homeland in Palestine as early as 1917 which resulted in a tiny, sparcely-populated part of Transjorden to be allocated for that purpose. (sparcely populated by Arabs and Jews) Many other Arabs came to take advantage of growing economic prosperity. After WW2 the Brits were kicked out and the newly declared state of Israel was immediately attacked from all sides by it's neighbors. The strategically important areas of Golan Heights, the West Bank and Gaza (and Sinai) were taken as a result of a later attempt to rid the world of Israel. Sinai was given back (ill-advisedly IMO). I'm pretty sure that's historically factual but it may conflict with some revisionist accounts. As far as the "aid" flotilla goes, I believe (my opinion) that the sole purpose was to provoke Israel into some action that could be condemned by the UN "Human Rights Commission". IMO, the UN was, at the very least, sympathetic to the blockade runners and possibly, IMO, complicit in the planning and execution of the attempted breach and the resultant spewing of anti-Israeli/anti-IDF propaganda in their "report". (All my opinion) (edit for clarity) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #107 September 27, 2010 Quote Isn't Jordan the Palestinian state? Why don't the Palestinians just move back home? Then everyone will be happy. Oh, wait ...it ain't about making everyone happy.... it's about ridding the Middle East of the state of Israel. The Palestinians are home. So are the Israeli's. It's homeland for all of them. And yes, there are fanatics who wish to see Israel gone from the map. And there are fanatics who wish to drive out all of the Palestinians so they can reclaim the Biblical Kingdom of David. In my opinion, both of those views should be dealt with equally. There is a modern state of Israel and it has borders. It needs to quit building outside of those borders. As for your earlier notion that Israel needs to take more of the West Bank because the room is needed for an expanding Jewish population, well that's a fine example of bigotry (forgive me if I missed a sarcasm emoticon), but I appreciate your honesty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #108 September 27, 2010 QuoteThe Palestinians are home. So are the Israeli's. It's homeland for all of them. And yes, there are fanatics who wish to see Israel gone from the map. And there are fanatics who wish to drive out all of the Palestinians so they can reclaim the Biblical Kingdom of David. In my opinion, both of those views should be dealt with equally. I agree whole heartedly. QuoteThere is a modern state of Israel and it has borders. It needs to quit building outside of those borders. As for your earlier notion that Israel needs to take more of the West Bank because the room is needed for an expanding Jewish population, well that's a fine example of bigotry (forgive me if I missed a sarcasm emoticon), but I appreciate your honesty. When a country is attacked, and then defeats the attackers, are you saying the country has no right to hold on to conquered land to ensure its safety? If Israel completely pulled out of Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights, do you think attacks on Israel would cease? Do you think Egypt Jordan and Syria would take custody of and responsibility for those areas? If attacks were launched against Israel from those areas after Israel pulled out, what do you think Israel should do?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #109 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote "Nine activists on a Turkish ship were killed as they attempted to breach the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza" Well, no shit. Something different expected? i'm happy you agree that israeli soldiers (like german soldiers) don't have the right to murder civilians Soldiers murder civilians all the time. These days of PC, they call it collateral damage. Dresden, London and My Lai come to mind. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #110 September 27, 2010 Quote When a country is attacked, and then defeats the attackers, are you saying the country has no right to hold on to conquered land to ensure its safety? Temporarily yes, but they are not allowed to transfer their population into that land. It's a violation of the fourth Geneva convention. Quote If Israel completely pulled out of Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights, do you think attacks on Israel would cease? Do you think Egypt Jordan and Syria would take custody of and responsibility for those areas? If attacks were launched against Israel from those areas after Israel pulled out, what do you think Israel should do? Attacks would not cease immediately. There are going to be fanatics on both sides who will create serious problems for a peaceful coexistence. But you have to work through those setbacks if you want lasting peace. Right now the Palestinians in the West Bank are not being given the right to self determination due to the apartheid policies of Israel. Some existing settlements will be allowed to stay and become part of Israel's new boundary based on a 1:1 land swap. Others will have to be dismantled. The Palestinians need a contiguous state that they can control, not the series of isolated reservations under control of their neighbor as was proposed a decade ago. After the borders are determined then an multinational force can be brought in to help with supervision, security, dispute resolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #111 September 27, 2010 Quote[ If attacks were launched against Israel from those areas after Israel pulled out, what do you think Israel should do? Same as always...eat breakfast, kick ass, take names, be home for lunch.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #112 September 27, 2010 Quote , the UN was, at the very least, sympathetic to the blockade runners and possibly, IMO, complicit in the planning and execution of the attempted breach and the resultant spewing of anti-Israeli/anti-IDF propaganda in their "report". I guess you're wearing a tin foil hat.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #113 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote this thread isn't about jews - it's about israelis (jews didn't murder those on the flotilla - israelis did) What planet do you live on? Actually he makes a good point and one that is clearly lost on you. if you were able to understand the difference then your entire world view might be more informed.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #114 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote Isn't Jordan the Palestinian state? Why don't the Palestinians just move back home? Then everyone will be happy. Oh, wait ...it ain't about making everyone happy.... it's about ridding the Middle East of the state of Israel. The Palestinians are home. So are the Israeli's. It's homeland for all of them. And yes, there are fanatics who wish to see Israel gone from the map. And there are fanatics who wish to drive out all of the Palestinians so they can reclaim the Biblical Kingdom of David. In my opinion, both of those views should be dealt with equally. There is a modern state of Israel and it has borders. It needs to quit building outside of those borders. As for your earlier notion that Israel needs to take more of the West Bank because the room is needed for an expanding Jewish population, well that's a fine example of bigotry (forgive me if I missed a sarcasm emoticon), but I appreciate your honesty. Actually, I agree with you ...except for the bigotry charge (is that all you got?) Like Kennedy says in his post below yours ..the Golan Heights, West Bank, and Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula were lost by right of conquest (and rightly so, IMO) to Israel by the multiple external aggressors in a war and as far as I'm concerned are now "within" the boundaries of Israel. Dan has already made the point above that Arabs living within Israel were historically afforded the rights of citizenship and access to religiously important sites ....just as I am sure that Jews living in the Arab 80% of Transjordan are allowed to live in peace and are, and have been, allowed to openly practice Judaism as they have for centuries (insert sarcasm icon here if you want). Palestinians who are looking for an autonomous state need only look to the east ...or they can remain and thrive in Israel as citizens of that state. Maybe the Palestinian people would have been better served if the surrounding countries would have not meddled in the affairs of Israel and their Arab citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #115 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote , the UN was, at the very least, sympathetic to the blockade runners and possibly, IMO, complicit in the planning and execution of the attempted breach and the resultant spewing of anti-Israeli/anti-IDF propaganda in their "report". I guess you're wearing a tin foil hat. Well, I a person can just read all the "reports" about a given event and believe or disbelieve whichever ones he wants. Some may think that anyone who believes a source just because they agree with it is also wearing weird headgear. I would have no problem believing the UN report if I saw supporting evidence. And actually, I've only seen video that supports the opposite. ...but their history of aligning against Israel is kinda like the "boy who cried wolf". You hear it so often that the response is likely to be "Yeah, OK. what's Stewie on Family Guy up to today". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #116 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote Quote this thread isn't about jews - it's about israelis (jews didn't murder those on the flotilla - israelis did) What planet do you live on? Actually he makes a good point and one that is clearly lost on you. if you were able to understand the difference then your entire world view might be more informed. He incorrectly labeled iot as murder. I see you live on his planet. The one that wants antisemitism to run rampant and a one world government.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #117 September 27, 2010 Quote i think you're confusing arabs (who haven't tried to exterminate the jews) with europeans (who did try to exterminate the jews). why can't israel have a homeland in the US - it's a big country and you're a very generous people i've heard it's their 2nd homeland , complete with tax deductibility ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #118 September 27, 2010 Quote Quote Quote this thread isn't about jews - it's about israelis (jews didn't murder those on the flotilla - israelis did) What planet do you live on? Actually he makes a good point and one that is clearly lost on you. if you were able to understand the difference then your entire world view might be more informed. First, I think he took issue with the use of the word murder more than the jews vs Israelis word choice. Second, if you had to guess, what religion would you bet those soldiers dropping onto the ship's deck were? Third, when fanatics and zealots talk about wiping Israel off the map, what word do they use interchangably with the country name? Hint: It starts with a J and rhymes with "who" (in English anyway, I'm not sure how to rhyme with "Itbach el Yahud") edit to add: D'oh, point one clarified by poster already. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #119 September 28, 2010 QuoteThe report of the fact-finding mission of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla released last week shows conclusively, for the first time, that US citizen Furkan Dogan and five Turkish citizens were murdered execution-style by Israeli commandos. The report reveals that Dogan, the 19-year-old US citizen of Turkish descent, was filming with a small video camera on the top deck of the Mavi Marmara when he was shot twice in the head, once in the back and in the left leg and foot and that he was shot in the face at point blank range while lying on the ground. The report says Dogan had apparently been "lying on the deck in a conscious or semi-conscious, state for some time" before being shot in his face. http://www.alternet.org/investigations/148314/un_report%3A_american_citizen_executed_by_israelis_during_mavi_marmara_raid/stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #120 September 28, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote this thread isn't about jews - it's about israelis (jews didn't murder those on the flotilla - israelis did) What planet do you live on? Actually he makes a good point and one that is clearly lost on you. if you were able to understand the difference then your entire world view might be more informed. He incorrectly labeled iot as murder. I see you live on his planet. The one that wants antisemitism to run rampant and a one world government. Your post isn't worth a response its so stupid. (Consider this a charity post)When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #121 September 28, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote this thread isn't about jews - it's about israelis (jews didn't murder those on the flotilla - israelis did) What planet do you live on? Actually he makes a good point and one that is clearly lost on you. if you were able to understand the difference then your entire world view might be more informed. First, I think he took issue with the use of the word murder more than the jews vs Israelis word choice. Second, if you had to guess, what religion would you bet those soldiers dropping onto the ship's deck were? Third, when fanatics and zealots talk about wiping Israel off the map, what word do they use interchangably with the country name? Hint: It starts with a J and rhymes with "who" (in English anyway, I'm not sure how to rhyme with "Itbach el Yahud") edit to add: D'oh, point one clarified by poster already. Quote Firstly 'I'm not sure how to rhyme with "Itbach el Yahud" Thats pretty funny. Secondly, of course the majority of the IDF are Jewish (But not all) but their actions were ordered not by 'the Jews' but by the State of Israel. To confuse the State of Israel with the Nation of Israel is a mistake. Not all Jews support or agree with the actions of the State of Israel, in fact there are many who do not agree with the existence of the State of Israel. Thirdly, Since when did Ahmedinajan and his ilk become the authority on Jews Vs the State of Israel. Surely the very fact that you mention zelots and fanatics should nullify any objectivity to thier statements.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 36 #122 September 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe report of the fact-finding mission of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla released last week shows conclusively, for the first time... ...and quite possibly for the last time too. If this report is unequivocally accurate and impartial then what would be your guess as to why the UN secretary general found it necessary to launch a separate inquiry ? This thread should rest for now. If the second report reveals facts similar to the first report then, by all means, flame on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #123 September 28, 2010 Looks like Israel caught some more anti-Semitic martyr wannabes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11425408 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #124 September 28, 2010 Thats going to confuse the Fu*k out of some people who don't understand the difference between the State of Israel and the Nation of Israel.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #125 September 28, 2010 Quote Quote He incorrectly labeled iot as murder. I see you live on his planet. The one that wants antisemitism to run rampant and a one world government. Your post isn't worth a response its so stupid. (Consider this a charity post) Charity post? Could you be more specific? He incorrectly labeled the soldiers as murderers. FACT I am sorry you find facts to be stupid. It does explain a lot. As far as the rest, I brought it up and he said something along the lines of "UNTIL that happens, we have the UN." He didn't disagree - so whht you are complaining about is that you were aligned directly to his belief system?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
