Kennedy 0 #201 September 29, 2010 QuoteThat wasn't my quote. I'm pretty sure the people were vetted. If the commandoes came down the ropes firing guns in the dark, paintball or real, it would be natural for the crews to put up some sort of defense. So now you're going to claim that the defense was spontaneous in response to Israelis shooting at random from the ropes? Have you even watched the videos? The flotilla folks were preparing to attack the soldiers before the soldiers even arrived! QuoteThe fact that they used materials to hand for that defense shows the defense wasn't premeditated, otherwise the soldiers would have suffered more casualties. The only gun the guys on the ship had came from an Israeli commando. It shows no such thing. What it shows is that whoever planned the media circus had a modicum of sense and realized that they had to appear to be victims. Here is my question to you: if their purpose was to deliver aid to Gaza, why not just deliver it to Egypt or Israel? The answer is that their goal was not delivery of aid, but rather to draw Israel into violent conflict. QuoteAnd any commando who allows his weapon to be taken from him in such a situation would surely face court martial in most armed forces. Do you know anything at all about armed forces? QuoteThe dead guys weren't around to defend their actions after the event. Who said they were terrorists?. Israel?. Some of them said so themselves in video interviews. Others said so in wills or diaries.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #202 September 29, 2010 Quote Quote The dead guys weren't around to defend their actions after the event. Who said they were terrorists?. Israel?. Some of them said so themselves in video interviews. Others said so in wills or diaries. Again - the video was posted at least three times in this forum and at least once in this thread. HOW can that not be a rhetorical question?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #203 September 29, 2010 QuoteThere is none so blind as he who will not see.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #204 September 29, 2010 Quote Quote This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now Well there a suprise Hey! ....we agree on something! (I think?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #205 September 29, 2010 Quote Quote Quote This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now Well there a suprise Hey! ....we agree on something! (I think?) In a round a bout sort of way. Bud duh dumb - KishhhhI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #206 September 29, 2010 Your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #207 September 29, 2010 Quote [repl] Quote Quote This discussion has gone circular... probably on the 3rd or 4th lap now Well there a suprise Hey! ....we agree on something! (I think?) In a round a bout sort of way.Bud duh dumb - Kishhhhi feel the roundabout it really takes me outnouti spend the dayyour way!man, i was wrong on those lyricsYes Roundabout (Jon Anderson/Steve Howe) I'll be the round about The words will make you out 'n' out I'll spend the day your way...... Call it morning driving thru the sound and In and out the valley...... The muses dance and sing They make the children really ring I'll spend the day your way Call it morning driving thru the sound and In and out the valley..... In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky and they Stand there One mile over we'll be there and we'll see you Ten true summers we'll be there and Laughing too Twenty four before my love you'll see I'll be There with you I will remember you Your silhouette will charge the view Of distance atmosphere...... Call it morning driving thru the sound and Even in the valley...... In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky and they Stand there One mile over we'll be there and we'll see you Ten true summers we'll be there and Laughingtoo ooo oo oo Twenty four before my love you'll see I'll be There with you Along the drifting cloud the eagle searching Down on the land Catching the swirling wind the sailor sees The rim of the land The eagle's dancing wings create as weather Spins out of hand Go closer hold the land feel partly no more Than grains of sand We stand to lose all time a thousand answers By in our hand Next to your deeper fears we stand Surrounded by million years I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out 'n' out I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out 'n' out........ In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky they Stand there Twenty four before my love and I'll be There........ I'll be the roundabout The words will make you out 'n' out We spend the day your way Call it morning driving thru the sound and In and out the valley.... eh In and around the lake Mountains come out of the sky and they Stand there One mile over we'll be there and we'll see You Ten true summers we'll be there and Laughing too ooo Twenty four before my love you'll see I'll be There with you.....Da da da da daaa da da Da da da da daaa da da Da da da da daaa da da Da da da Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #208 September 29, 2010 QuoteI have noticed in your several replies since the video was posted that you have no comments regarding the "Lets all be martyrs" video. Is that just because it doesn't fit into your belief system, or is there another reason? Have you posted a link like I asked?. I'd like to see it. And I'll comment on it then.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #209 September 29, 2010 Que?.QuoteMy computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #210 September 29, 2010 QuoteYou noticed that too huh....I really have to wonder about the NEWS as available in NZ... considering local theorists who show up hereSly Actually I've been in Europe for most of the last 10 years, and its where I've watched both the Gaza assault and the flotilla incident. I cannot see how pictures and videos what I've witnessed on TV can be anything other than what they show. I'll see if I can find the video you've posted, because as I said I'll comment on it then. And NZ does actually get international TV channels. Lots of US ones by the way.QuoteMy computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #211 September 29, 2010 Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #212 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. ***Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive.Good enough?.no , visit some hardcore muslim countries ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #213 September 29, 2010 Quote Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?. Its a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #214 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you posted a link like I asked?. I'd like to see it. And I'll comment on it then. Several times. Here it is again. If you'd like to see it, just click the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwsut8Dkbg&feature=related Here is Israel putting the (their) full story together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-G1PlFGIs And another, nice the way they sync video to claims of a "peaceful activist." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1945WsNWk&feature=relatedwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #215 September 29, 2010 QuoteIts a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long listUnsure And you have first hand knowledge of these countries as well I presume?. Does Saudi and the UAE count?. Because a lot of the money for Jihad comes from Saudi, you know the Saudi that is propped up by the US. And seeing where the Nazis did their stuff was pretty graphic. And I have now watched a few of the video clips and read some of the articles, no doubt a small minority of the 700 flotilla participants did have connections and expressed a desire for martyrdom. However I think in a few cases they were speaking figuratively, as in expecting the IDF to actually sink the ships as they crossed the demarcation line, and were willing to give their lives if that is what it took. It doesn't seem to me they were preparing to attack Israel, however the boarding gave them an opportunity which some of them took. One question, if they really were ready to wage war, why were they so poorly armed?. I would have thought they would have taken firearms and explosives at least. Yet the IDF found none of these things after the event. Its not as if terrorists don't have access to weapons. These were not very well organised or armed if that was their plan. And if the IDF had not tried to board, their opportunity to become martyrs would not have occurred.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #216 September 29, 2010 You did notice the pile of weapons the "peaceful" protestors did have right? Personally the first asshoel I saw coming at me with knives the size of swords.... I would have been using the sidearm in a heartbeat while the airsoft special was still bouncing across the deck As far as your other point.... its pointless They are blockading their ENEMIES... HAMAS from getting the materials to build more rockets which are killing Israeli civilians after the UNILATTERALLY withdrew from Gaza. Bottom line.. no peace treaty... its still the same conflict that has been going on since the 1940's. The smart people ... make peace .. the fanatics that you are supporting... are not so smart. Its a complex issue and a HUGE history lesson of the conflict is really in order for YOU to really understand WHY the Israeli's act as they do to protect their people To those who support the PLO and HAMAS... MAKE PEACE then you will not have to suffer the effects of WAR any longer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #217 September 29, 2010 I am a little sceptical of a video of weapons displayed by the IDF after the event. The reasons are simply that at that point the IDF were in serious damage control because of the PR disaster that had befallen them. I don't think the IDF are averse to distributing a little propaganda of their own when it suits their cause, and they had some damge limitation exercise to conduct in this case.... And if they did have such weapons (firearms) why did they not use them?. I don't recall any Israelis suffering gunshot wounds. And why do you have the idea that I am supporting fanatics, Islamist or otherwise?. I've said NOTHING about supporting Hamas, Al Quaida or any other fundamentalist nutters out there. That includes fundamentalist Christians, Jews or any other bunch who claim to have a mandate from God. What I do think, is that Israel in a lot of cases, reaps what it sows, and some of its policies will not bring peace or stability to the Middle East, now or forever. There is a LOT of injustice perpetrated against the Palestinian population, and you don't have to be a supporter of Hamas or any other organisation to recognise that. Israel has managed to change my view of the situation by its own actions. What really did it was the firing of white phosphorus shells into one of the most densely populated places on the planet. In my opinion that wasn't war, it was a crime against humanity.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #218 September 29, 2010 your opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #219 September 29, 2010 All of your points have been debunked several times in this thread. Your continuing post say nothing about the situation, but volumes about you.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #220 September 29, 2010 Quoteyour opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! My opinion is based on unbiased information. Like live footage of the assault on Gaza city. The camera doesn't lie. I've accepted that some on the ships were prepared to die, I had not seen that info before. The IDF videos of the boarding, while showing the melee that ensued after the boarding, is only a snapshot of part of the event. The IDF video of the weapons "cache" I take with a big grain of salt. That "evidence" could easily be manufactured to support their account.... I ask again, why did these terrorists not use these weapons?. Surely they would have welcomed the chance to ventilate a few IDF personnel. And they had the chance no doubt. Why take a knife or a piece of railing to a gunfight!!!. The IDF have no interest in portraying any view of video or photos that conflict with their account, thats why I asked if there was video of the assault from the POV of the people on the boat, and whether it showed a different angle on events. I am sure there is video, but if the IDF took possession of it all, why not show it if it supports their account?... When I've seen IDF spokesmen on TV denying the use of WP weapons in Gaza, with WP shells exploding in the background I have to ask if they've been to the Comical Ali school of propaganda. And when I've come up with valid questions on here, I've yet to see any answers to change my opinion. Just mindless parroting that I am a fool who blindly supports Hamas and the destruction of Israel. I prolly have more first hand knowledge of Israel, Israelis, and the Middle East in general than most of my detractors. I say again, Israel, by its overreactions, has changed my POV quite a lot.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #221 September 29, 2010 videos can be edited , evidence can be planted , even eyewitness accounts can vary. or the evidence can be plain , strong , and irrefutible , but still be denied ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #222 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet nothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #223 September 29, 2010 Everyone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #224 September 29, 2010 QuoteEveryone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Silly Divot, PA's are for kids!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #225 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet Quotenothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason? I've looked at the vids and commented on them already....go back a few posts.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... 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obelixtim 150 #210 September 29, 2010 QuoteYou noticed that too huh....I really have to wonder about the NEWS as available in NZ... considering local theorists who show up hereSly Actually I've been in Europe for most of the last 10 years, and its where I've watched both the Gaza assault and the flotilla incident. I cannot see how pictures and videos what I've witnessed on TV can be anything other than what they show. I'll see if I can find the video you've posted, because as I said I'll comment on it then. And NZ does actually get international TV channels. Lots of US ones by the way.QuoteMy computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #211 September 29, 2010 Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #212 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. ***Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive.Good enough?.no , visit some hardcore muslim countries ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #213 September 29, 2010 Quote Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?. Its a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #214 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you posted a link like I asked?. I'd like to see it. And I'll comment on it then. Several times. Here it is again. If you'd like to see it, just click the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwsut8Dkbg&feature=related Here is Israel putting the (their) full story together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-G1PlFGIs And another, nice the way they sync video to claims of a "peaceful activist." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1945WsNWk&feature=relatedwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #215 September 29, 2010 QuoteIts a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long listUnsure And you have first hand knowledge of these countries as well I presume?. Does Saudi and the UAE count?. Because a lot of the money for Jihad comes from Saudi, you know the Saudi that is propped up by the US. And seeing where the Nazis did their stuff was pretty graphic. And I have now watched a few of the video clips and read some of the articles, no doubt a small minority of the 700 flotilla participants did have connections and expressed a desire for martyrdom. However I think in a few cases they were speaking figuratively, as in expecting the IDF to actually sink the ships as they crossed the demarcation line, and were willing to give their lives if that is what it took. It doesn't seem to me they were preparing to attack Israel, however the boarding gave them an opportunity which some of them took. One question, if they really were ready to wage war, why were they so poorly armed?. I would have thought they would have taken firearms and explosives at least. Yet the IDF found none of these things after the event. Its not as if terrorists don't have access to weapons. These were not very well organised or armed if that was their plan. And if the IDF had not tried to board, their opportunity to become martyrs would not have occurred.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #216 September 29, 2010 You did notice the pile of weapons the "peaceful" protestors did have right? Personally the first asshoel I saw coming at me with knives the size of swords.... I would have been using the sidearm in a heartbeat while the airsoft special was still bouncing across the deck As far as your other point.... its pointless They are blockading their ENEMIES... HAMAS from getting the materials to build more rockets which are killing Israeli civilians after the UNILATTERALLY withdrew from Gaza. Bottom line.. no peace treaty... its still the same conflict that has been going on since the 1940's. The smart people ... make peace .. the fanatics that you are supporting... are not so smart. Its a complex issue and a HUGE history lesson of the conflict is really in order for YOU to really understand WHY the Israeli's act as they do to protect their people To those who support the PLO and HAMAS... MAKE PEACE then you will not have to suffer the effects of WAR any longer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #217 September 29, 2010 I am a little sceptical of a video of weapons displayed by the IDF after the event. The reasons are simply that at that point the IDF were in serious damage control because of the PR disaster that had befallen them. I don't think the IDF are averse to distributing a little propaganda of their own when it suits their cause, and they had some damge limitation exercise to conduct in this case.... And if they did have such weapons (firearms) why did they not use them?. I don't recall any Israelis suffering gunshot wounds. And why do you have the idea that I am supporting fanatics, Islamist or otherwise?. I've said NOTHING about supporting Hamas, Al Quaida or any other fundamentalist nutters out there. That includes fundamentalist Christians, Jews or any other bunch who claim to have a mandate from God. What I do think, is that Israel in a lot of cases, reaps what it sows, and some of its policies will not bring peace or stability to the Middle East, now or forever. There is a LOT of injustice perpetrated against the Palestinian population, and you don't have to be a supporter of Hamas or any other organisation to recognise that. Israel has managed to change my view of the situation by its own actions. What really did it was the firing of white phosphorus shells into one of the most densely populated places on the planet. In my opinion that wasn't war, it was a crime against humanity.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #218 September 29, 2010 your opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #219 September 29, 2010 All of your points have been debunked several times in this thread. Your continuing post say nothing about the situation, but volumes about you.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #220 September 29, 2010 Quoteyour opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! My opinion is based on unbiased information. Like live footage of the assault on Gaza city. The camera doesn't lie. I've accepted that some on the ships were prepared to die, I had not seen that info before. The IDF videos of the boarding, while showing the melee that ensued after the boarding, is only a snapshot of part of the event. The IDF video of the weapons "cache" I take with a big grain of salt. That "evidence" could easily be manufactured to support their account.... I ask again, why did these terrorists not use these weapons?. Surely they would have welcomed the chance to ventilate a few IDF personnel. And they had the chance no doubt. Why take a knife or a piece of railing to a gunfight!!!. The IDF have no interest in portraying any view of video or photos that conflict with their account, thats why I asked if there was video of the assault from the POV of the people on the boat, and whether it showed a different angle on events. I am sure there is video, but if the IDF took possession of it all, why not show it if it supports their account?... When I've seen IDF spokesmen on TV denying the use of WP weapons in Gaza, with WP shells exploding in the background I have to ask if they've been to the Comical Ali school of propaganda. And when I've come up with valid questions on here, I've yet to see any answers to change my opinion. Just mindless parroting that I am a fool who blindly supports Hamas and the destruction of Israel. I prolly have more first hand knowledge of Israel, Israelis, and the Middle East in general than most of my detractors. I say again, Israel, by its overreactions, has changed my POV quite a lot.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skipbelt 0 #221 September 29, 2010 videos can be edited , evidence can be planted , even eyewitness accounts can vary. or the evidence can be plain , strong , and irrefutible , but still be denied ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #222 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet nothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #223 September 29, 2010 Everyone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 220 #224 September 29, 2010 QuoteEveryone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Silly Divot, PA's are for kids!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 150 #225 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet Quotenothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason? I've looked at the vids and commented on them already....go back a few posts.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 9 of 17 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
obelixtim 150 #211 September 29, 2010 Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #212 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. ***Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive.Good enough?.no , visit some hardcore muslim countries ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #213 September 29, 2010 Quote Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?. Its a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #214 September 29, 2010 QuoteHave you posted a link like I asked?. I'd like to see it. And I'll comment on it then. Several times. Here it is again. If you'd like to see it, just click the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNwsut8Dkbg&feature=related Here is Israel putting the (their) full story together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-G1PlFGIs And another, nice the way they sync video to claims of a "peaceful activist." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1945WsNWk&feature=relatedwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #215 September 29, 2010 QuoteIts a start... now go visit some of their enemies... you know the ones who got rid of all their jews years ago... and now support those who wish to remove all of them from the middle east... Take your pick.. its a long listUnsure And you have first hand knowledge of these countries as well I presume?. Does Saudi and the UAE count?. Because a lot of the money for Jihad comes from Saudi, you know the Saudi that is propped up by the US. And seeing where the Nazis did their stuff was pretty graphic. And I have now watched a few of the video clips and read some of the articles, no doubt a small minority of the 700 flotilla participants did have connections and expressed a desire for martyrdom. However I think in a few cases they were speaking figuratively, as in expecting the IDF to actually sink the ships as they crossed the demarcation line, and were willing to give their lives if that is what it took. It doesn't seem to me they were preparing to attack Israel, however the boarding gave them an opportunity which some of them took. One question, if they really were ready to wage war, why were they so poorly armed?. I would have thought they would have taken firearms and explosives at least. Yet the IDF found none of these things after the event. Its not as if terrorists don't have access to weapons. These were not very well organised or armed if that was their plan. And if the IDF had not tried to board, their opportunity to become martyrs would not have occurred.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #216 September 29, 2010 You did notice the pile of weapons the "peaceful" protestors did have right? Personally the first asshoel I saw coming at me with knives the size of swords.... I would have been using the sidearm in a heartbeat while the airsoft special was still bouncing across the deck As far as your other point.... its pointless They are blockading their ENEMIES... HAMAS from getting the materials to build more rockets which are killing Israeli civilians after the UNILATTERALLY withdrew from Gaza. Bottom line.. no peace treaty... its still the same conflict that has been going on since the 1940's. The smart people ... make peace .. the fanatics that you are supporting... are not so smart. Its a complex issue and a HUGE history lesson of the conflict is really in order for YOU to really understand WHY the Israeli's act as they do to protect their people To those who support the PLO and HAMAS... MAKE PEACE then you will not have to suffer the effects of WAR any longer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #217 September 29, 2010 I am a little sceptical of a video of weapons displayed by the IDF after the event. The reasons are simply that at that point the IDF were in serious damage control because of the PR disaster that had befallen them. I don't think the IDF are averse to distributing a little propaganda of their own when it suits their cause, and they had some damge limitation exercise to conduct in this case.... And if they did have such weapons (firearms) why did they not use them?. I don't recall any Israelis suffering gunshot wounds. And why do you have the idea that I am supporting fanatics, Islamist or otherwise?. I've said NOTHING about supporting Hamas, Al Quaida or any other fundamentalist nutters out there. That includes fundamentalist Christians, Jews or any other bunch who claim to have a mandate from God. What I do think, is that Israel in a lot of cases, reaps what it sows, and some of its policies will not bring peace or stability to the Middle East, now or forever. There is a LOT of injustice perpetrated against the Palestinian population, and you don't have to be a supporter of Hamas or any other organisation to recognise that. Israel has managed to change my view of the situation by its own actions. What really did it was the firing of white phosphorus shells into one of the most densely populated places on the planet. In my opinion that wasn't war, it was a crime against humanity.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #218 September 29, 2010 your opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #219 September 29, 2010 All of your points have been debunked several times in this thread. Your continuing post say nothing about the situation, but volumes about you.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #220 September 29, 2010 Quoteyour opinion isn't swayed by information or evidence , more like a cult ! My opinion is based on unbiased information. Like live footage of the assault on Gaza city. The camera doesn't lie. I've accepted that some on the ships were prepared to die, I had not seen that info before. The IDF videos of the boarding, while showing the melee that ensued after the boarding, is only a snapshot of part of the event. The IDF video of the weapons "cache" I take with a big grain of salt. That "evidence" could easily be manufactured to support their account.... I ask again, why did these terrorists not use these weapons?. Surely they would have welcomed the chance to ventilate a few IDF personnel. And they had the chance no doubt. Why take a knife or a piece of railing to a gunfight!!!. The IDF have no interest in portraying any view of video or photos that conflict with their account, thats why I asked if there was video of the assault from the POV of the people on the boat, and whether it showed a different angle on events. I am sure there is video, but if the IDF took possession of it all, why not show it if it supports their account?... When I've seen IDF spokesmen on TV denying the use of WP weapons in Gaza, with WP shells exploding in the background I have to ask if they've been to the Comical Ali school of propaganda. And when I've come up with valid questions on here, I've yet to see any answers to change my opinion. Just mindless parroting that I am a fool who blindly supports Hamas and the destruction of Israel. I prolly have more first hand knowledge of Israel, Israelis, and the Middle East in general than most of my detractors. I say again, Israel, by its overreactions, has changed my POV quite a lot.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #221 September 29, 2010 videos can be edited , evidence can be planted , even eyewitness accounts can vary. or the evidence can be plain , strong , and irrefutible , but still be denied ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #222 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet nothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #223 September 29, 2010 Everyone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #224 September 29, 2010 QuoteEveryone - enough. There have been several pages of borderline PA's so far. Tone it down. Silly Divot, PA's are for kids!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #225 September 29, 2010 . . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet Quotenothing about the "lets all be martyrs" video - Again, now the links you requested have been posted 4 times in this thread alone and you refuse to refute the actions or even aknowledge their existence. So I ask again: Do you not comment on the video just because it disagrees with your mindset, or is there another reason? I've looked at the vids and commented on them already....go back a few posts.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
