Man Killed by Mexican Pirates on Texas Lake

[rhaig 0]

I saw this story on TV this morning.

Who's saying that there isn't a problem with violence in Mexico leaking into the US?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mexican-pirates-shot-tourist-head/story?id=11784598

--
Rob

[shropshire 0]

This story seems to fail the sniff test

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Tragic story, and indicative of the major problem on the Mexican side. This, and other stories of tourists being held for ransom, are good cause for international tourists to boycott Mexican destinations. Perhaps hitting Mexico in the pocketbook will get the attention of the Mexican Government and force them to do something to clean up the cartels.

However:

Quote

Who's saying that there isn't a problem with violence in Mexico leaking into the US?

If you pay attention to the story, they had actually crossed into Mexico, intentionally, to sight-see. Presumably they did not stop at some customs station in the middle of the lake. The incident happened in Mexico, so it wasn't a case of "violence leaking into the US". Also I wonder how outraged people get at violent crimes perpetrated by Americans on Mexicans illegally in the US? I can't recall a single post about that! Or should Americans be able to come and go wherever they want, whenever they want, but everybody else better respect our border?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rhaig 0]

Quote

This story seems to fail the sniff test

how so?

it's not the first incident of people being shot at on this lake.

the interview I saw with the game warden said that there was "evidence of weapons fire on her watercraft"

if this was a blog posting, or just huffpo, I might be a little more skeptical, but this is multiple major news outlets.

what doesn't sniff right for you?

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

Quote

However:

Quote

Who's saying that there isn't a problem with violence in Mexico leaking into the US?

If you pay attention to the story, they had actually crossed into Mexico, intentionally, to sight-see. Presumably they did not stop at some customs station in the middle of the lake.

there is a series of buoys in the middle of the lake. customs station in the lake? is this the movies?

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

This story seems to fail the sniff test

how so?

it's not the first incident of people being shot at on this lake.

the interview I saw with the game warden said that there was "evidence of weapons fire on her watercraft"

if this was a blog posting, or just huffpo, I might be a little more skeptical, but this is multiple major news outlets.

what doesn't sniff right for you?

Why I am thinking that a well armed Q boat would solve this problem...

Make it look like a run of the mill tourist boat... and have the damn thing armed to the teeth... the pirates upen up.. and just fucking waste them... problem solved.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Make it look like a run of the mill tourist boat... and have the damn thing armed to the teeth... the pirates upen up.. and just fucking waste them... problem solved.

Gee, this idea seems strangely familiar...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Make it look like a run of the mill tourist boat... and have the damn thing armed to the teeth... the pirates upen up.. and just fucking waste them... problem solved.

Would you suggest this boat goes into Mexico first...like the people in the story did?

This isn't a case of Mexican violence entering the US. It is a case of Americans entering Mexico illegally.

Many here believe Mexicans, illegally entering the US, should be shot on sight. What's good for the goose...and all that stuff.

[Kennedy 0]

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Many here believe Mexicans, illegally entering the US, should be shot on sight. What's good for the goose...and all that stuff.

Uh huh. "Many here." Since I doubt you can find anyone here on dz.com ever having said anything even remotely that ridiculous, I have to assume you mean here in the US. So what's your definition of many? I certainly don't know any. A few fringe whackos and racist fuckwits hiding in the Montana hills?

Shit, I bet I can find more people who think the moon landing was faked, or 9-11 was an inside conspiracy, or that Elvis is still alive, than you can find people who think illegal border crossers should be shot on sight.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Make it look like a run of the mill tourist boat... and have the damn thing armed to the teeth... the pirates upen up.. and just fucking waste them... problem solved.

Would you suggest this boat goes into Mexico first...like the people in the story did?

This isn't a case of Mexican violence entering the US. It is a case of Americans entering Mexico illegally.

Many here believe Mexicans, illegally entering the US, should be shot on sight. What's good for the goose...and all that stuff.

So you advocate shoot on site of mexican illeagals in the US?

Wow

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Tragic story, and indicative of the major problem on the Mexican side. This, and other stories of tourists being held for ransom, are good cause for international tourists to boycott Mexican destinations. Perhaps hitting Mexico in the pocketbook will get the attention of the Mexican Government and force them to do something to clean up the cartels.

While I agree that it's indicative of problems south of the border, let's not pretend that the problems all stay there. There are whole sections of US land that people are advised to avoid due to violence. Ranchers and other landowners near the border have been attacked or had their property destroyed. The Texas governor is suggesting people avoid a lake that is partially US territory due to crossover violence. Mexican army and federales have been caught on the US side of the border countless times.

I agree that taking a shot at the tourist destinations would hurt the Mexican pocketbook, there are two problems with that. First, I really don't think it would be enough to make anyone care enough to change things on the border. Second, from what I have seen of the people going to Mexican resort towns, I don't think enough of them give a shit about anything other than themselves to make a statement or choose another tourist destination.

Quote

Also I wonder how outraged people get at violent crimes perpetrated by Americans on Mexicans illegally in the US? I can't recall a single post about that! Or should Americans be able to come and go wherever they want, whenever they want, but everybody else better respect our border?

Examples? You can think of a time that unudentified parties in the US shot at Mexicans who were boating or cruising along a highway or hiking in the parks?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,063]

>Who's saying that there isn't a problem with violence in Mexico leaking
>into the US?

This incident happened in Mexico - so it's an example of violence in Mexico staying in Mexico.

[rhaig 0]

wow...you really are the king of semantics aren't you.

yes, it was in mexico. on the other side of a line of buoys in a lake (with no fence between them).

move along bill.... nothing for you to see here.

--
Rob

[billvon 3,063]

>wow...you really are the king of semantics aren't you.

When you claim it's in Texas and it's actually in Mexico, it's a bit more than semantics. It means that rather than proving that violence in Mexico is "leaking out" into the US, it is actually demonstrating that it is remaining in Mexico.

[Kennedy 0]

Well if you want to get technical, didn't the article say that the gunmen chased and followed her into US waters?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,063]

>didn't the article say that the gunmen chased and followed her into US waters?

I don't think so. The article mentioned that after he was shot, his wife was "trying to get his body and Jet Ski back to the U.S. side."

(Needless to say, it's not OK to shoot someone in that situation no matter which side of the border they are on, and no matter what nationality they are.)

[Kennedy 0]

Eh, it said they "may have briefly" crossed into the US. Either way, it's just one more fucked up border incident.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,063]

> Either way, it's just one more fucked up border incident.

Agreed. Ironically, better border security might have helped prevent this by keeping Americans out of Mexico.

[futuredivot 0]

With the unique position of the lake, does anyone know if their is or is not an agreement between the US and Mexico concerning lake use by watercraft of either country? The only thing I could find is that Mexico and Texas don't recognize each other's fishing licenses so you need a TX one to fish the TX side and Mexican to fish that side.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Kennedy 0]

I was wondering that too. I'm no maritime expert, so how do countries reconcile the territorial waters issue? Is there an imaginary line where your 12 miles don't count any more, or is there an overlap? Is there recognized worldwide precedent, or is it left to neighbors to figure it out?

(and I'm talking about relatively reasonable countries, what NKorea and China think are far less relevant here)

edit to add:
OK, UN agreement is 12 nm territorial, 12 nm contiguous, 200km exclusive econmoic zone, and pretty much nobody likes it.
And according to three (limited) sources, there is no overlap, the territorial waters end on a line similar to the border unless neighboring states agree otherwise.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rhaig 0]

the game warden in the interview this morning pointed out the line of buoys in the middle of the lake that was the international border. I don't know how they sort out the territory issues in a lake, but the border is physically represented in the lake.

--
Rob

[futuredivot 0]

But it's a lake-looks to be less that 4miles wide at most spots

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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While I agree that it's indicative of problems south of the border, let's not pretend that the problems all stay there...

Agreed. I just think it doesn't help when we confuse the issue by pointing to something that happen on the Mexican side as "cross-border violence". There are enough real examples of that.

Quote

I agree that taking a shot at the tourist destinations would hurt the Mexican pocketbook, there are two problems with that. First, I really don't think it would be enough to make anyone care enough to change things on the border

I believe tourism is a major source of foreign trade for Mexico. If tourist dollars really dried up (unlikely) I think it would get their attention.

Quote

Second, from what I have seen of the people going to Mexican resort towns, I don't think enough of them give a shit about anything other than themselves to make a statement or choose another tourist destination.

Agreed, unfortunately.

Quote

Examples? You can think of a time that unudentified parties in the US shot at Mexicans who were boating or cruising along a highway or hiking in the parks?

I think you're being too specific. I recall a thread that dealt with illegals who are crime victims while in the US, and some posters said those people should be immediately deported even if it meant the criminals could not be prosecuted. The comment was even made that women should expect to be raped if they are here illegally. I can't find that thread right now, but I distinctly recall being shocked that anyone could suggest such a thing.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Kennedy 0]

Things like the Great Lakes on teh US Canada border are easy. They find the spot halfway between the shores and connect teh dots. Instant border in the "middle" of the lake. It's a little tougher when you talk about a screwball shape like falcon lake that changes shape with droughts on a border with serious smuggling and violence issues. But like Rob said, apparently there is a line of buoys that mark the border, and cooperation is a nice word on the border, but more fantasy than unicorns and vampires.

At least you can dress things up to look like unicorms and vampires on the border.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Uh huh. "Many here." Since I doubt you can find anyone here on dz.com ever having said anything even remotely that ridiculous,

Just read the "if I broke into your house" thread.