Called to Love the Gay Community

[RonD1120 62]

Insightful.


Called to Love the Gay Community
by Ron Sider

"As most of us know, a huge gulf separates evangelical Christians and the gay/lesbian community. To a large extent because of our failures, they mistrust, despise, and are enormously hostile to evangelicals, viewing us as homophobic bigots."

http://www.esa-online.org/Article.asp?RecordKey=50A67964-3113-4E76-A4F0-A8423E8B7750

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[stevebabin 0]

Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people that they routinely seek to fuck over. Nice.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[billvon 2,991]

>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

[Amazon 7]

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>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

Or maybe there are a whole bunch of Ted Haggards seeking to finally come out of their closet

[wmw999 2,447]

No, I'm with Bill on this one; this sounds and reads like an honest attempt to reach out. Not from an "I agree with you" point of view, but with a "here's what I can offer you, you take on your terms" instead.

That would be good. I can remember a story in Newsweek a number of years ago about a young Mormon man whose bedroom had smooth spots in the wood floor from where he knelt every day to ask not to be gay. He eventually killed himself.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,991]

>Or maybe there are a whole bunch of Ted Haggards seeking to finally come out of their closet . ..

I think there are a very large number of gay members of more conservative churches who feel they can't come out about their orientation. (I'm guessing not a lot of them pay for gay prostitutes with meth, though.) Having people like Marin in these communities - someone willing to talk to them without judging them, someone who will make them welcome - could go a long way towards bringing both sides closer together.

[stevebabin 0]

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>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

You wanna be "Tolerated", Bill, or would you rather be "Accepted"?

The evangelicall xtians have a shitload of ground to make up in repairing their relationship with the gay community, and most of them still see homosexuality as an "abomination" (they claim it's in their book...)

It IS a step in the right direction, but they have miles and miles to go.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[billvon 2,991]

>You wanna be "Tolerated", Bill, or would you rather be "Accepted"?

I'd rather be accepted. But I won't always be. In those cases, I'd prefer toleration to being shunned (or, worse, actively suppressed.)

That process has had to happen for a lot of things - women's rights, interracial marriage, minority rights. It may not be as fast as one would like, but seeing it beginning to happen is pretty cool.

>and most of them still see homosexuality as an "abomination"
>(they claim it's in their book...)

Well, so is wearing polyester/cotton blends and eating shellfish, but most Christians have made accommodations with those 'abominations.'

>It IS a step in the right direction, but they have miles and miles to go.

Agreed. We should help both sides along their journey; a lot of animosity has built up over the years, and that just slows down that journey.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

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>and most of them still see homosexuality as an "abomination"
>(they claim it's in their book...)

Well, so is wearing polyester/cotton blends and eating shellfish, but most Christians have made accommodations with those 'abominations.'

As a gay Christian, I use this argument a lot. So many things have been "accommodated" like you say so why not homosexuality?

[stevebabin 0]

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Agreed. We should help both sides along their journey

OR...the evangelical xtians could pull their collective heads out of their asses and learn how to treat people properly.
Maybe that's what is starting to happen. I hope it is, but I am very suspiscious, given their track record.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

If the gay Christians reject these overtures out of suspicion or resentment/distrust for the past, it will tend to perpetuate the divide. I believe as time has passed, the evangelical types become the minority, however a very local minority. The rest will be willing to broaden their acceptance, but if spurned, they may stick to the status quo.

[billvon 2,991]

>So many things have been "accommodated" like you say so why not >homosexuality?

I think that process is starting. Things move slowly in many churches; it took the Catholic church 360 years to apologize to Galileo for condemning and imprisoning him. (He had the gall to suggest the Earth rotated around the Sun.)

But at least things are headed in the right direction.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

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Quote

>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

If the gay Christians reject these overtures out of suspicion or resentment/distrust for the past, it will tend to perpetuate the divide. I believe as time has passed, the evangelical types become the minority, however a very local minority. The rest will be willing to broaden their acceptance, but if spurned, they may stick to the status quo.

Im a sophomore in college...those words made no sense

[Southern_Man 0]

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But at least things are headed in the right direction.

I doubt anything Ron Sider says is going to be predictive of actions or thoughts/beliefs for evangelicals as a whole. He has been a dissenting voice from many parts of the 'evangelical consensus' [a term I just coined] for a long time and has had very little success changing that consensus or gaining fellow adherents to his position.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kelpdiver 2]

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Quote

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>Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people
>that they routinely seek to fuck over.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way is that tolerance is growing even in the evangelical communities, which would be a good thing in my book.

If the gay Christians reject these overtures out of suspicion or resentment/distrust for the past, it will tend to perpetuate the divide. I believe as time has passed, the evangelical types become the minority, however a very local minority. The rest will be willing to broaden their acceptance, but if spurned, they may stick to the status quo.

Im a sophomore in college...those words made no sense

Is that an English thing, or a reading thing?

In short - even if the evangelicals have been the problem all along, to move forward, the gays will have to try to forget the past, or at least forgive it. They can firm up acceptance among the majority of Christians by being among them, not divided apart from them.

[skipbelt 0]

good to see you on here again !

[stevebabin 0]

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good to see you on here again !

You too, Skipper!

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Nightingale 0]

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Evangelicals "christians" trying to expand into a group of people that they routinely seek to fuck over. Nice.

Your post is a perfect example of how Christians have managed to completely alienate an entire class of people, and now that some are getting their heads out of their asses, they're surprised to get reactions like yours.

I understand your reaction. It makes total sense. Why take a hand of friendship when the same hand has slapped you in the face hundreds of times before?

Not all Christians are hate spewing homophobes. Unfortunately, those seem to be the loudest and the ones most often on television, while the others don't stop them or aren't even sure how.

Things are changing. More Christians are welcoming gays and lesbians. The United Church of Christ is one group that is pretty widespread.

More and more, as kids grow up with their friends and neighbors being out of the closet and being gay slowly becoming not something to be kept hidden as some kind of shameful secret, you'll see more of things like this:

http://www.timschraeder.com/2010/06/30/a-different-kind-of-demonstration-at-gay-pride/

and hopefully a lot less of the other stuff.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

skpy wats up?

-JB

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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In short - even if the evangelicals have been the problem all along, to move forward, the gays will have to try to forget the past, or at least forgive it. They can firm up acceptance among the majority of Christians by being among them, not divided apart from them.

While I tend to agree (and understood the first time ), I must concede I have never been black or gay or anything I could possibly or completely understand what such animosity toward me feels like, much less over and over and over.

While I have forgiven those who have wronged me in my past, I have not forgotten and now find myself tolerating them vs. accepting them. It is tough to accept people (in this case, accept the evangelicals) for who they are when you (in this case, when you are gay) have bared the brunt of their cruelty.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[skipbelt 0]

obuma regime loves gays...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43601.html

[kelpdiver 2]

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It is tough to accept people (in this case, accept the evangelicals) for who they are when you (in this case, when you are gay) have bared the brunt of their cruelty.

yes, they need to be Jesus like in tolerance and forgiveness. Though it may not be as hard as tolerating the abuse in the first place.

You want the Christians to make the first move and it sounds like some are. Then it's a question of trusting their motives are good.

[Remster 30]

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obuma regime loves gays...

I hear he's a secret gay who goes to secret gay church, and when he was sworn in, he actually used the script from Sex in the City instead of the Bible.

I even heard his _real_ birth certificate says he's gay. Why do they keep hiding this from us?

Remster

[JohnnyMarko 1]

[Remster 30]

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Sure, you're laughing now, but when the Gay Panels start deciding if your child will be gay or straight, you wont find it so funny.

Remster