RonD1120 62 #151 October 21, 2010 Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #152 October 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteto libs the whales and the rainforest (jungle) are worthy of better protections than human fetuses , so i should have included trees are people too ! Right. And this has fuck all to do with Christians and gays, exactly how?if you really need me to i'll catch you up ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #153 October 21, 2010 >That is like alcoholism. Yep - and left handedness, and height, and susceptibility to disease. Usually many genomes have to work together to confer any phenotype - it's rare that a single gene is completely responsible (as in sickle cell anemia.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #154 October 21, 2010 Quoteif you really need me to i'll catch you up ! Please do! This should be good. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #155 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest. A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #156 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest. A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. Can you prove that?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #157 October 21, 2010 For every article you can haul out, I can haul out ten. Don't even go there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #158 October 21, 2010 >>A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of >> his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his >> entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even >> trigger, what he is. >Can you prove that? I can't because I'm heterosexual. But I understand the comparison. I never had a choice - I was programmed to be attracted to women, and I could not have 'overcome' that if it was socially more preferable to be attracted to men. Gay friends that I've talked to have said the same thing about their lives, and it was true even though it WAS socially more acceptable to be attracted to the opposite sex. How about you? Was there a time in your life where you thought to yourself "gee, I'm about equally attracted to men as to women - but I choose women over men?" Or was your sexual preference something that was just part of who you were? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #159 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote The idea being, that lower life forms evolve into higher life forms; and for a period of time, the two coexist. That is, until the higher life form eventually takes over. Even thinking in terms of higher and lower life forms is really a very poor understanding of the basics of evolutionary biology. Doh! I forgot to add the little winkie emoticon to denote sarcasm. Damn, no offense intended. Sarcasm can be very tricky to pick up on forums."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #160 October 21, 2010 Quote A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. Proving that this is fact is the same as proving God does/doesn't exist. It happens inside the head, in the brain, unless you are claiming it happens in the soul.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #161 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest. A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. It is a very good analogy, because the behavior produces the consequences. Let me go back to the beginning. Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #162 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest. A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. It is a very good analogy, because the behavior produces the consequences. Let me go back to the beginning. Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. You're simply ignoring what I've just said: "conduct" and "being" are two separate things. I'm only going to repeat it so many times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #163 October 21, 2010 Quote A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. It is certainly possible that homosexuality (or heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc.) is neither entirely genetically determined nor freely choosen. Environment during and after birth can certainly play a huge factor in development of many, many characteristics. Also there is an increasing acknowledgement in the literature that human behavior can turn gene expression on and off for many, many traits. Sexuality is a very, very complex phenomenon (to put it mildly) and it is also possible that there is no one right answer for all people. Some people may indeed be genetically determined to be homosexuals from conception. Others may be influenced by pre or post natal environment. Since sexuality may be a continuum still others may be somewhere on the middle of a sexuality scaled (like the Kinsey scale) and indeed have a great deal of choice in their attractions and behaviors both. This appears in the literature to be much more common among women then men. In addition there are entire socieities where most or all people engage in what we would term homosexual behavior at some points in life as a norm. I think it would be fair to say that these people could be sociologically determined homosexuals, maybe. Anyway, it is an incredibly complex subject, not easily even discussible on a message board in the type of depth and nuance it deserves. Researchers cannot even come up with a widely accepted definition of sexual orientation."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,442 #164 October 21, 2010 The analogy would be closer if being left-handed were considered immoral. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #165 October 21, 2010 Quote .... Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. What is safe moral sex? What is perverted sex? I'm a femal person. So, if I choose to have both: What kind of pervert am I? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #166 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote .... Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. What is safe moral sex? What is perverted sex? I'm a femal person. So, if I choose to have both: What kind of pervert am I? Neither - it does sound like you have some menopausal issues though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #167 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote .... Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. What is safe moral sex? What is perverted sex? I'm a femal person. So, if I choose to have both: What kind of pervert am I? Neither - it does sound like you have some menopausal issues though. Oh, thanks. That's your daily indication? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #168 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote There are genetic markers that are strong predictors for homosexuality. But like nearly all human traits, there isn't one "switch" you can point to and say "that's what causes this to happen." That is like alcoholism. There are indicators for the predilection of the disease but the individual still has to make a choice in favor of it for the alcoholism to manifest. A terrible analogy. A person born with a predeiliction toward alcoholism must ingest a sufficient amount of alcohol for the disease to manifest. For a person with the alcoholism trait, he makes a choice to begin drinking, or not. The ingestion of alcohol is the triggering mechanism for the disease. On the other hand, a person born homosexual is homosexual from birth; he does not need to ingest... Let me start again. A person born homosexual will be homosexual, and feel consciousness of his homosexuality, even if he never has sex with another person his entire life. Choice only controls his conduct; it does not control, or even trigger, what he is. It is a very good analogy, because the behavior produces the consequences. Let me go back to the beginning. Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. You're simply ignoring what I've just said: "conduct" and "being" are two separate things. I'm only going to repeat it so many times. And, you don't seem to grasp the understanding that sin is behavior, or conduct. We sin because we are born sinners. That is our being. We have to choose righteousness. That is my focus. The old saying, if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got. Repent from your sinful behavior. Change your mind about what you have been doing and choose to do what is righteous and holy. Now is everyone here going to do that now? Of course not but, I can work with those who want to. No one changes until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #169 October 21, 2010 >Proving that this is fact is the same as proving God does/doesn't exist. Well, if you believe that what humans think and feel has absolutely zero actual basis, then I guess that would be correct. But most people can compare their experiences to the experiences of others to better understand them. Which is why I can understand what it's like to not have a choice about what your sexuality is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #170 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote .... Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. What is safe moral sex? What is perverted sex? I'm a femal person. So, if I choose to have both: What kind of pervert am I? Neither - it does sound like you have some menopausal issues though. Oh, thanks. That's your daily indication? Call it a PSA. I had to look up what a femal was. I just assumed that some other posters were wondering the same thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #171 October 21, 2010 QuoteThe analogy would be closer if being left-handed were considered immoral. Wendy P. Oh dear, I can't resist. It is in some beliefs and it was in the past. Sinister was equated with left hand.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #172 October 21, 2010 Quotewe are born sinners. That is our being. That's crap. I only wish that the socially maladjusted adult males who invented that sick concept centuries ago were alive today so they could be horsewhipped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #173 October 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote .... Sexual behavior in humans is a choice. A person can choose safe moral sex or perverted sex. Period. What is safe moral sex? What is perverted sex? I'm a femal person. So, if I choose to have both: What kind of pervert am I? Neither - it does sound like you have some menopausal issues though. Oh, thanks. That's your daily indication? Call it a PSA. I had to look up what a femal was. I just assumed that some other posters were wondering the same thing. Woah! You got me there! A typing error. Shame on me! (You should mark this date with a red cross in your calendar) So, again: I'm a female person. RonD1120 .... ? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #174 October 21, 2010 Quote>Proving that this is fact is the same as proving God does/doesn't exist. Well, if you believe that what humans think and feel has absolutely zero actual basis, then I guess that would be correct. But most people can compare their experiences to the experiences of others to better understand them. Which is why I can understand what it's like to not have a choice about what your sexuality is. >>But most people can compare their experiences to the experiences of others to >>better understand them. Like the phenomenon of when the Holy Spirit enters you? >>Which is why I can understand what it's like to not have a choice about what your >>sexuality is. So you are saying that some people have no choice what they believe.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #175 October 21, 2010 >So you are saying that some people have no choice what they believe. People have no choice as to what they ARE. They do have a choice what to believe. If you are born without eyes, you can believe fervently that you can see, or that you will be healed, or that your sense of hearing can overcome your inability to see. But you'd still be blind no matter what you chose to believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
