skipbelt 0 #101 October 25, 2010 huge detour sponsored by...and now back to threadthey're just better candidates...http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Tea-party-neophytes-outshine-the-Dems_-old-pros-1265483-105284738.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #102 October 25, 2010 QuoteThis is the so-called "consensus" of scientists? A very well respected librarian recently proved that water boils at 95C at her house! So much for "consensus science!" Why can't you keep an open mind like the really smart people? John 3:11-12 If you don't believe when I talk to you about things on earth, how can you possibly believe if I talk to you about things in heaven?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #103 October 25, 2010 QuoteSo then, by your definition, auto insurance in California is "socialist" Does CA have a "Public Option" for car insurance (yes, I know the actual bill does not have it in it, but many wanted it)? Does CA force you to buy car insurance or pay a penalty on your State Taxes? Even if you don't have a car? Lets not forget that the consequences of the HC bill have yet to be seen. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_bi_ge/us_employer_health_plans Quotea Democratic governor laid out a scheme for employers to get out of health care by shifting workers into taxpayer-subsidized insurance markets that open in 2014.... Tennessee Gov. Bredesen said last week that employers could save big money by dropping their health plans and sending workers to buy coverage in the exchange. They'd face a fine of $2,000 per worker, but that's still way less than the cost of providing health insurance. Employers could even afford to give workers a raise and still come out ahead, Bredesen wrote in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece. And some costs have already gone up: QuoteYet at least one major employer has shifted a greater share of plan costs to workers, and others are weighing the pros and cons of eventually forcing employees to strike out on their own. And some places are waiting to see if they can drop the coverage and survive the image backlash: QuotePaul Keckley, executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions. "What we are hearing in our meetings is, 'We don't want to be the first one to drop benefits, but we would be the fast second.' We are hearing that a lot." Deloitte is a major accounting and consulting firm. And some company's have already gotten waivers. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703431604575522413101063070.html Of course they got a waiver.... But don't think other company's are not thinking the same thing. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2010-10-07-healthlaw07_ST_N.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #104 October 25, 2010 QuoteAgreed; that doesn't make them stupid. The fact that they want to keep "government out of their Medicare" makes them stupid. Here's a great summary of their position on how much government spending they want: "That’s a conundrum, isn’t it? I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security. I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind." When asking simple questions confuses them enough that they abandon their Tea Party positions, then those positions are not very well thought out ones. Simple questions... Bill, since you feel you know conservatives and the tea party, so well... I have a, simple question for you. When a person says that they desire small government... sometimes said, small and limited government, what do they mean? Because if you are making this determination on your comments above and below… then, I don’t think you know. But you are right, 62% of “the Tea Party” do not support cuts to Medicare or Social Security. (Stossel) But there is a reason for that... unfortunately for you, it isn’t hypocrisy. But it makes sense, if you understand history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #105 October 25, 2010 QuoteNope. Everyone in the Tea Party isn't stupid, nor are all their positions stupid. However, their absolute and very vocal opposition to government spending on health and welfare, combined with their very commonly expressed desire to "keep government out of Medicare and Social Security" is contradictory and poorly thought out, and makes a bit of a joke of their position on the matter. Like I said, wanting fiscal responsibility doesn't make them stupid. Wanting to cut spending - and then opposing government cuts to that spending - does. Again... your words are a complete mischaracterization of not only their message, but of the guiding principles that the Tea Party holds. I don’t think you know what you are talking about, Bill. So, prove me wrong... What does it mean to desire small and limited government? Simple question... simple answer too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #106 October 25, 2010 >Bill, since you feel you know conservatives and the tea party, so well... I know some conservatives well. I don't know any tea partyers. >When a person says that they desire small government... sometimes >said, small and limited government, what do they mean? Depends on the person. Saying someone is conservative does not guarantee any views. But in _general_: When liberals say that, they generally want fewer wars. When conservatives say that, they generally want less welfare. When libertarians say that, in general they want smaller government overall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #107 October 25, 2010 maybe we need another apperatif as a metaphor...http://www.theblaze.com/stories/jessie-jackson-on-obamas-black-strategy-there-is-more-coffee-in-the-pot-than-tea-in-the-cup/i loved some of the comments ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #108 October 25, 2010 Quote I know some conservatives well. I don't know any tea partyers. Interesting... you speak so negatively about them... yet you clearly have no clue. However, if I obtained my information from the major news networks and/or blogs like the Huffington Post... I wouldn’t really understand them either. Quote When liberals say that, they generally want fewer wars. When conservatives say that, they generally want less welfare. When libertarians say that, in general they want smaller government overall. No, I’m sorry... that is Incorrect. No titles are needed in the answer. Quote Depends on the person. True... ok, lets use Benjamin Franklin. Quote Saying someone is conservative does not guarantee any views. True as well... you then have to ask if they are a, “compassionate conservative”... AKA... Progressive Republicans, like John McCain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #109 October 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteI know some conservatives well. I don't know any tea partyers. Interesting... you speak so negatively about them... yet you clearly have no clue. What makes you think he hasn't studied their on-line resources or watched numerous Tea Party rallies both on cable and YouTube?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #110 October 25, 2010 QuoteYep. And when asked for specifics, they generally say "cut wasteful government spending" or "cut entitlement programs." But, apparently, not Medicare, Social Security, defense spending, border spending, roads, veteran's hospitals, or any other of their favorite programs. When pressed they generally can't name any programs at all, or name programs that would save us a hundred million or something. In other words, they're pretty much like Democrats in that regard. They like the idea of cutting spending but can't actually bring themselves to cut anything. And I would be glad to, be more specific. And we can start with Social Security... not only plans, but some history as well. We can all imagine we are huddled up for a nice fireside chat as we do... yeah, yeah? Sweet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #111 October 25, 2010 Quote Quote Quote I know some conservatives well. I don't know any tea partyers. Interesting... you speak so negatively about them... yet you clearly have no clue. What makes you think he hasn't studied their on-line resources or watched numerous Tea Party rallies both on cable and YouTube? Cause I read his posts about the Tea Party... in this thread and others... or am I supposed to have ESPN and read his mind to get additional information? Or... is it that you do, both, know what the Tea Party stands for... and you simply continue the talking points because no one here has been able to fully and effectively stand up to you yet? Spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #112 October 25, 2010 SS is unlike almost all other programs , you put your money in , you get your money back! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #113 October 25, 2010 >Interesting... you speak so negatively about them... yet you clearly have >no clue. Well, I have as much of a clue as you do, apparently. >No, I’m sorry... that is Incorrect. No titles are needed in the answer. You may have a different experience than I do. That's fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #114 October 25, 2010 QuoteQuotehealth care is not a right , health is not a right , care is not a right . life , liberty , and the pursuit of happiness are. Generally speaking, without healthcare, people don't live very long. Quade... Nancy Pelosi said after signing the HC bill: We will honor the vows of our founders, who in the Declaration of Independence said that we are “endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” This legislation will lead to healthier lives, more liberty to pursue hopes and dreams and happiness for the American people. This is an American proposal that honors the traditions of our country. So, basically... if people aren’t healthy, then they therefore are less able to “pursue happiness.” So, health care is needed... and government run health care, will insure health, and therefore increase liberty. Do you agree with her? What does, “the pursuit of happiness” mean? And here too, we can stick with Benjamin Franklin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #115 October 25, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotehealth care is not a right , health is not a right , care is not a right . life , liberty , and the pursuit of happiness are. Generally speaking, without healthcare, people don't live very long. Quade... Nancy Pelosi said after signing the HC bill: We will honor the vows of our founders, who in the Declaration of Independence said that we are “endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” This legislation will lead to healthier lives, more liberty to pursue hopes and dreams and happiness for the American people. This is an American proposal that honors the traditions of our country. So, basically... if people aren’t healthy, then they therefore are less able to “pursue happiness.” So, health care is needed... and government run health care, will insure health, and therefore increase liberty. Do you agree with her? What does, “the pursuit of happiness” mean? And here too, we can stick with Benjamin Franklin. "Government Run" those two words scare the hell out of me..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #116 October 25, 2010 Quote Well, I have as much of a clue as you do, apparently. Are ya sure about that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #117 October 26, 2010 QuoteNancy Pelosi said after signing the HC bill: We will honor the vows of our founders, who in the Declaration of Independence said that we are “endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” This legislation will lead to healthier lives, more liberty to pursue hopes and dreams and happiness for the American people. This is an American proposal that honors the traditions of our country. So, basically... if people aren’t healthy, then they therefore are less able to “pursue happiness.” So, health care is needed... and government run health care, will insure health, and therefore increase liberty. Do you agree with her? What does, “the pursuit of happiness” mean? And here too, we can stick with Benjamin Franklin. You appear to be confused on serval aspects of the health care bill, but the biggest one is that healthcare will be "run" by the "government." No. That's simply incorrect. Health insurance will be regulated by the government. It's a fundanmental difference lost by a large majority of people that are against it. You asked if I agree with Pelosi's statement about healthcare helping to ensure "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Yes, I do agree with that. Healthcare is what enables modern man to have a life expectancy beyond 35 years. It's what enables mothers to die less often in child birth and children to survive diseases that are trivial with it, but fatal without it. But if you're looking at what words of our founding fathers gives the government the right to regulate the healthcare insurance industry, forget the Declaration of Independence, essentially that's just a FU letter to King George. Look at the Preamble of the US Constitution; QuoteWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. In other words, yes, it is the duty of the government to ensure the general welfare of the people is looked after. This, in fact, does mean regulation of certain industries so companies don't take advantage of people and the people do have somebody looking out for them. Regulating the insurance industry so they can't welch on deals and toss people out of healthcare because they've gotten sick is, in fact, the business of the government.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #118 October 26, 2010 Give a mouse a cookie and he's going to want a glass of milk . . .I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #119 October 26, 2010 Ya know what, I ran an experiment on that. I gave mice cookies and not once did they ever ask for milk. Aphorisms rarely make good arguments, because frequently they're not true.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #120 October 26, 2010 >Ya know what, I ran an experiment on that. I gave mice cookies and not >once did they ever ask for milk. That's because you don't speak Mouse. You'd have to be an animagus or something to be able to speak Mouse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #121 October 26, 2010 Quote>Ya know what, I ran an experiment on that. I gave mice cookies and not >once did they ever ask for milk. That's because you don't speak Mouse. You'd have to be an animagus or something to be able to speak Mouse. Hmmm, I had not considered securing a witch as a research assistant. Perhaps after next Tuesday Ms. O'Donnell will have some free time.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #122 October 26, 2010 >Hmmm, I had not considered securing a witch as a research assistant. >Perhaps after next Tuesday Ms. O'Donnell will have some free time. Christine O'Donnell is not a witch. She said so herself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #123 October 26, 2010 Niiiiice Okay... once more: What does, “the pursuit of happiness” mean? Because that alone, kills your argument... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #124 October 26, 2010 Quote>Hmmm, I had not considered securing a witch as a research assistant. >Perhaps after next Tuesday Ms. O'Donnell will have some free time. Christine O'Donnell is not a witch. She said so herself. Oh no. Not now. You're right, now she's a wholesome Christian girl, but she used to be one, she said so on TV. Something about making out on a satanic sacrificial alter too. Certainly she must remember some of her spells and can talk to familiars. Right?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #125 October 26, 2010 QuoteWhat does, “the pursuit of happiness” mean? Because that alone, kills your argument... Really? How? Please show me some documentation to back up your claims. Do you have some sort of statistics that show people are frequently happier after one of their children dies from lack of healthcare? I mean, I haven't done research on it, but from a lifetime of experience and, well, seeing a LOT of people die in general, I'm fairly certain few people are more happy when their relatives die.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
